4 ms·

wait wait... that can't be correct math. You must be getting far far more of your calories than 50%. The normal estimate is that it takes 1 acre of land to fe

wait wait... that can't be correct math. You must be getting far far more of your calories than 50%. The normal estimate is that it takes 1 acre of land to feed a person for the full year. One acre is 43560 square feet. Your 10 beds are 640 square feet. Somewhere the math is very very wrong.

Loughla 7y ago
It's the difference in growing techniques and your estimates translating into the real world. Your estimates are based on what, grain production? That grain production equals meat and other things, not just produce. That estimate is also based on traditional row-cropping, is my guess. Also, at the heart of it, your impression is incorrect. I didn't say the raised beds provided 50% of the family's calories, but 50% of our vegetable and other fresh produce needs. This does not include meat, most proteins in general, or fruits. Finally, it is an assumption comparing traditional row cropping to square foot gardening in the raised beds. You get much more produce in a smaller space in square foot versus row crops, but it is much more labor intensive. You cannot use machinery in square foot gardens, compared to row crops. So there is a trade off. In other words, the math doesn't work with your assumptions, because they're two different things. My estimate is that, while the garden produces 50% of our vegetable and produce needs, it's probably 10-20% of our overall caloric consumption. But that's a madey upey number, really. I have no idea.
- vkou 7y ago
  > Your estimates are based on what, grain production? 1 acre/person is roughly what a pre-mechanization, pre-chemical-fertilizer, pre-pesticide subsistence peasant needs to keep himself alive.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    Just on a quick Google, figures from the 1970s suggest you only need 4000 sqft/person. https://www.growveg.com/guides/growing-enough-food-to-feed-a-family/ https://www.growveg.com/guides/growing-enough-food-to-feed-a...
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      You omitted the next line... > with about another 4000 square feet (370 square meters) for access paths and storage
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        Not intentionally. Just trying to give a more up to date figure and a source for it.
      - asdkjh345fd 7y ago
        That's still less than 1/5th of an acre even if you waste all that space for no reason. Keep in mind, Jeavons is trying to sell books and speaking engagements for his gimmick, not trying to be efficient. I grow much more than 4000 square feet of crops and I use zero square feet for storage and less than 1/10th of the growing space in paths.
asdkjh345fd 7y ago
>The normal estimate is that it takes 1 acre of land to feed a person for the full year That is not an estimate, it is a meme.
imtringued 7y ago
Well, it appears that your math is wrong. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+usa+in+acres+%2F+population+of+usa https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+usa+in+acr... https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+europe+in+acres+%2F+population+of+europe https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+europe+in+... Basically with that rule of thumb USA is on the verge of starvation and EU has been starving for a few decades already. And this doesn't even consider the fact that eating animals is less efficient than eating plants. Where is the food for the 8 billion chicken and 70 million pigs in the USA coming from? From my own calculations roughly 3588 sqft of wheat are necessary to feed a single person. Of course people are different, farms are different and plants are different. So a rule of thumb of 4000 sqft sounds about right and matches DoreenMichele's number.

Loughla 7y ago

It's the difference in growing techniques and your estimates translating into the real world. Your estimates are based on what, grain production? That grain production equals meat and other things, not just produce. That estimate is also based on traditional row-cropping, is my guess. Also, at the heart of it, your impression is incorrect. I didn't say the raised beds provided 50% of the family's calories, but 50% of our vegetable and other fresh produce needs. This does not include meat, most proteins in general, or fruits. Finally, it is an assumption comparing traditional row cropping to square foot gardening in the raised beds. You get much more produce in a smaller space in square foot versus row crops, but it is much more labor intensive. You cannot use machinery in square foot gardens, compared to row crops. So there is a trade off. In other words, the math doesn't work with your assumptions, because they're two different things. My estimate is that, while the garden produces 50% of our vegetable and produce needs, it's probably 10-20% of our overall caloric consumption. But that's a madey upey number, really. I have no idea.

vkou 7y ago
> Your estimates are based on what, grain production? 1 acre/person is roughly what a pre-mechanization, pre-chemical-fertilizer, pre-pesticide subsistence peasant needs to keep himself alive.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Just on a quick Google, figures from the 1970s suggest you only need 4000 sqft/person. https://www.growveg.com/guides/growing-enough-food-to-feed-a-family/ https://www.growveg.com/guides/growing-enough-food-to-feed-a...
  - koheripbal 7y ago
    You omitted the next line... > with about another 4000 square feet (370 square meters) for access paths and storage
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      Not intentionally. Just trying to give a more up to date figure and a source for it.
    - asdkjh345fd 7y ago
      That's still less than 1/5th of an acre even if you waste all that space for no reason. Keep in mind, Jeavons is trying to sell books and speaking engagements for his gimmick, not trying to be efficient. I grow much more than 4000 square feet of crops and I use zero square feet for storage and less than 1/10th of the growing space in paths.

asdkjh345fd 7y ago

>The normal estimate is that it takes 1 acre of land to feed a person for the full year That is not an estimate, it is a meme.

imtringued 7y ago

Well, it appears that your math is wrong. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+usa+in+acres+%2F+population+of+usa https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+usa+in+acr... https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+europe+in+acres+%2F+population+of+europe https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+europe+in+... Basically with that rule of thumb USA is on the verge of starvation and EU has been starving for a few decades already. And this doesn't even consider the fact that eating animals is less efficient than eating plants. Where is the food for the 8 billion chicken and 70 million pigs in the USA coming from? From my own calculations roughly 3588 sqft of wheat are necessary to feed a single person. Of course people are different, farms are different and plants are different. So a rule of thumb of 4000 sqft sounds about right and matches DoreenMichele's number.