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> But shutting down the API and Android apps feels like an egregious move by Apple. Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. They won't

> But shutting down the API and Android apps feels like an egregious move by Apple. Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. They won't support any non-Apple ecosystem unless they have to - it's just their way of doing things

reaperducer 7y ago
Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. Is it? Did Shazam stop working on Android when Apple ate it? Honest question, since I don't have an Android device.
- fenwick67 7y ago
  Shazam still works on Android. But Shazam usage data is valuable, arguably.
  - sah2ed 7y ago
    Perhaps you are right that data on listens is valuable to Apple. Shazam on Android is a net producer of data, while Dark Sky on Android is a net consumer of data.
    - cpeterso 7y ago
      Where does Dark Sky get its weather data? Do they crowdsource any data from their apps? If so, then continuing to support Android devices could still provide value to Apple.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  No. Although some apps like Apple Music on Android are clearly treated like redheaded stepchildren by Apple
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Apple Music in general is a remarkably poor experience on any platform.
- Infinitesimus 7y ago
  This is pure speculation but Shazam is a UK company and I'm 99% convinced that if they had locked the app to iOS, the European Commission would have blocked the deal and maybe sued them for anti-competitive practices.
sbahr001 7y ago
This really sucks, I work for a stormwater environmental company and we were looking at darksky to replace our existing provider; DarkSky is one of the best providers of weather data.IBM also bought weather underground, I am really what these big tech companies want with forecasting/weather companies. I just wish they kept the API running though.
- Godel_unicode 7y ago
  Have you considered using the National Weather Service API directly? To someone with only a casual interest in this stuff it seems like it has what I would want, curious about shortcomings compared with the many commercial offerings? Especially considering it's their data that e.g. DarkSky resells. https://www.weather.gov/documentation/services-web-api https://www.weather.gov/documentation/services-web-api
  - SiVal 7y ago
    The Dark Sky API combines lots of data sources, and its weather data is not limited to the US. I use it for cities all around the world. The US National Weather Service API cannot replace it.
    - jmckib 7y ago
      Do you have any idea what other data sources they use? How do they do their minute-by-minute precipitation forecasts
      - SiVal 7y ago
        Sorry, I didn't see your question until now. Unless I'm mistaken, they had a list of their sources somewhere on their website that I saw a few years ago. I don't think they said where their minute-by-minute came from, but I'm quite sure they calculated that data themselves.
  - jmckib 7y ago
    How does Darksky do it's minute-by-minute precipitation forecasts, though? I only see hourly forecasts in the API. I'm guessing they are doing some of their own forecasting.
tw04 7y ago
>Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. I'd argue the exact opposite. They keep pronouncing they're now a services company. If that's TRULY their go-forward model, they should be selling services to the broadest possible audience. Shutting it down to other audiences tells me they're still a hardware company that can't see past their walled garden. If anyone at Apple is listening, I'll say it for the thousandth time: Support Messages on Android and Windows and you will own the messaging market. If you keep kicking the can, someone will eventually take it from you. Just look at Blackberry and what you did to them... it can and will happen to you as well. BES was thought to be an impenetrable wall. Narrator: It wasn't. This coming from someone who switched back to iPhone after the last round of goog privacy snafu's.
- madeofpalk 7y ago
  Apple is more in the "selling App Store access" business, not the "weather data" business.
- enos_feedler 7y ago
  Apple has shown they are not afraid to build products that are 100% services (TV+, Music, etc). Just because a product is delivered as a service doesn't mean the correct strategy is to spray it everywhere. It's not a matter of seeing past the walled garden. So long as there is a roadmap for deep platform integrations (identity, payments, AR, GPU, etc) and the desire for those integrations to be 100% available to _anyone_ with a blue bubble, the service will not leave Apple. IMO, it's about protecting the path of innovation while keeping a key feature (compatibility across all users) in play. Available is key because feature adoption spreads virally. Nobody wants to see someone do something in iMessage and then learn they can't do it.
  - tw04 7y ago
    You sound like you're reading from the RIM playbook circa 2004. It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN the product that kills them shows up. The only reason that Facebook hasn't already supplanted them is their horrendous record on security - eventually a player without that track record will come along and eat their lunch. Facebook messenger became "good enough" just about at the exact time the Cambridge Analytica scandal happened - at which point even the non-nerds started deleting their accounts and abandoning their messaging platform.
echelon 7y ago
This is why we should be hostile to Swift being used outside of the Apple ecosystem. To all the folks trying to make Swift server development compelling: please stop. Use Golang or Rust instead. Apple is an antagonist of other platforms/ecosystems, and there's no reason to believe they won't use Swift to force developers to buy and run Macbooks. Edit: Would the multitude of downvoters provide a counter argument? Why should we tolerate this behavior from Apple? I'm upset when other companies use the same playbook. There's an equal opportunity for all companies to behave better here. As it stands, I do not support this.
- Larrikin 7y ago
  I didn't down vote you, but I'd personally prefer Kotlin to be the God language of multiplatform
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > there's no reason to believe they won't use Swift to force developers to buy and run Macbooks Other than the fact that there has been no signs of this in the past five years?
floatingatoll 7y ago
What business reason is there to support Dark Sky for non-Apple purposes? If the API and apps were profitable, why did they sell to Apple? How much did Dark Sky for Android cost? Was the 50th percentile revenue per Android user $0? Was the 90th percentile, too?

reaperducer 7y ago

Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. Is it? Did Shazam stop working on Android when Apple ate it? Honest question, since I don't have an Android device.

fenwick67 7y ago
Shazam still works on Android. But Shazam usage data is valuable, arguably.
- sah2ed 7y ago
  Perhaps you are right that data on listens is valuable to Apple. Shazam on Android is a net producer of data, while Dark Sky on Android is a net consumer of data.
  - cpeterso 7y ago
    Where does Dark Sky get its weather data? Do they crowdsource any data from their apps? If so, then continuing to support Android devices could still provide value to Apple.
Rebelgecko 7y ago
No. Although some apps like Apple Music on Android are clearly treated like redheaded stepchildren by Apple
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Apple Music in general is a remarkably poor experience on any platform.
Infinitesimus 7y ago
This is pure speculation but Shazam is a UK company and I'm 99% convinced that if they had locked the app to iOS, the European Commission would have blocked the deal and maybe sued them for anti-competitive practices.

sbahr001 7y ago

This really sucks, I work for a stormwater environmental company and we were looking at darksky to replace our existing provider; DarkSky is one of the best providers of weather data.IBM also bought weather underground, I am really what these big tech companies want with forecasting/weather companies. I just wish they kept the API running though.

Godel_unicode 7y ago
Have you considered using the National Weather Service API directly? To someone with only a casual interest in this stuff it seems like it has what I would want, curious about shortcomings compared with the many commercial offerings? Especially considering it's their data that e.g. DarkSky resells. https://www.weather.gov/documentation/services-web-api https://www.weather.gov/documentation/services-web-api
- SiVal 7y ago
  The Dark Sky API combines lots of data sources, and its weather data is not limited to the US. I use it for cities all around the world. The US National Weather Service API cannot replace it.
  - jmckib 7y ago
    Do you have any idea what other data sources they use? How do they do their minute-by-minute precipitation forecasts
    - SiVal 7y ago
      Sorry, I didn't see your question until now. Unless I'm mistaken, they had a list of their sources somewhere on their website that I saw a few years ago. I don't think they said where their minute-by-minute came from, but I'm quite sure they calculated that data themselves.
- jmckib 7y ago
  How does Darksky do it's minute-by-minute precipitation forecasts, though? I only see hourly forecasts in the API. I'm guessing they are doing some of their own forecasting.

tw04 7y ago

>Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. I'd argue the exact opposite. They keep pronouncing they're now a services company. If that's TRULY their go-forward model, they should be selling services to the broadest possible audience. Shutting it down to other audiences tells me they're still a hardware company that can't see past their walled garden. If anyone at Apple is listening, I'll say it for the thousandth time: Support Messages on Android and Windows and you will own the messaging market. If you keep kicking the can, someone will eventually take it from you. Just look at Blackberry and what you did to them... it can and will happen to you as well. BES was thought to be an impenetrable wall. Narrator: It wasn't. This coming from someone who switched back to iPhone after the last round of goog privacy snafu's.

madeofpalk 7y ago
Apple is more in the "selling App Store access" business, not the "weather data" business.
enos_feedler 7y ago
Apple has shown they are not afraid to build products that are 100% services (TV+, Music, etc). Just because a product is delivered as a service doesn't mean the correct strategy is to spray it everywhere. It's not a matter of seeing past the walled garden. So long as there is a roadmap for deep platform integrations (identity, payments, AR, GPU, etc) and the desire for those integrations to be 100% available to _anyone_ with a blue bubble, the service will not leave Apple. IMO, it's about protecting the path of innovation while keeping a key feature (compatibility across all users) in play. Available is key because feature adoption spreads virally. Nobody wants to see someone do something in iMessage and then learn they can't do it.
- tw04 7y ago
  You sound like you're reading from the RIM playbook circa 2004. It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN the product that kills them shows up. The only reason that Facebook hasn't already supplanted them is their horrendous record on security - eventually a player without that track record will come along and eat their lunch. Facebook messenger became "good enough" just about at the exact time the Cambridge Analytica scandal happened - at which point even the non-nerds started deleting their accounts and abandoning their messaging platform.

echelon 7y ago

This is why we should be hostile to Swift being used outside of the Apple ecosystem. To all the folks trying to make Swift server development compelling: please stop. Use Golang or Rust instead. Apple is an antagonist of other platforms/ecosystems, and there's no reason to believe they won't use Swift to force developers to buy and run Macbooks. Edit: Would the multitude of downvoters provide a counter argument? Why should we tolerate this behavior from Apple? I'm upset when other companies use the same playbook. There's an equal opportunity for all companies to behave better here. As it stands, I do not support this.

Larrikin 7y ago
I didn't down vote you, but I'd personally prefer Kotlin to be the God language of multiplatform
saagarjha 7y ago
> there's no reason to believe they won't use Swift to force developers to buy and run Macbooks Other than the fact that there has been no signs of this in the past five years?

floatingatoll 7y ago

What business reason is there to support Dark Sky for non-Apple purposes? If the API and apps were profitable, why did they sell to Apple? How much did Dark Sky for Android cost? Was the 50th percentile revenue per Android user $0? Was the 90th percentile, too?