8 ms·
US Surgeon General continues to recommend against this for some reason
by nyxtom 7y ago
US Surgeon General continues to recommend against this for some reason
- tyingq 7y agoThey seem convinced it will create a run on masks, leaving none for medical staff. Even though this message is clearly about home-made ones.
- TheSoftwareGuy 7y agoIt's stupid. N95 masks are in short supply and so should be reserved for healthcare workers and those caring for the infected but sugical masks can still help slow the spread. People should be weraring those in public. But the only messaging from the top is not to wear the masks
- IgorPartola 7y agoThere seems to be evidence that masks can make your exposure worse by trapping some amount of air containing the virus under the mask, making you more exposed. If you are sick they can protect others around you, but if you are healthy, less so. In that context the flip of public opinion makes some sense: as we go from assuming most people are healthy to assuming most people are sick, masks for everyone in public can help. Also, don’t forget that in medical facilities N95 masks are fitted specifically to individuals. You can’t just throw one on and be protected. Most people won’t go through the trouble of doing that properly. At that point it’s like putting your shirt over your nose: looks like you are protected but there are giant gaps that let in air.
- friendcrunch 7y agoThere is evidence of efficacy in wearing even simple facemasks. Skepticism will lead your imagination to walk in circles [continuing without said mask].
- dragontamer 7y ago> At that point it’s like putting your shirt over your nose: looks like you are protected but there are giant gaps that let in air. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3373043/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3373043/ A cut t-shirt over your nose is actually quite good, so long as the pattern is somewhat tested. No, its no where close to an N95 mask, but even aerosol sprays can be somewhat mitigated with a simple cut t-shirt. There are some internet studies suggesting an efficacy of 70% for T-shirts against 1-micron (bacteria) and 0.02 micron (viruses) particles. That's 6x worse than an N95 mask, but much better than unprotected. EDIT: It seems like the flu (also a 0.02 micron virus) is primarily on water-droplets 5 microns in size. So we don't actually have to reach N95 mask levels for a major amount of protection, aiming at the 5 micron sized moisture bubbles is already going to help us severely.
- travisporter 7y agoNot an expert but I have never heard of this air trapping phenomenon, unless it is introduced by putting on the mask with infected hands I suppose. How would it get there in the first place?
- Symmetry 7y agoThat's the first time I've heard about that theory about why wearing masks could be dangerous. Do you have a citation for that? I'd be very curious to read the study. Intuitively it seems like there's no way you could end up with a higher time integrated density of virions inside the mask than outside unless you put on the mask in a very contaminated area and then wore it into non-contaminated place. But maybe there's some mechanism I'm not thinking of?
- pmoriarty 7y ago"There seems to be evidence that masks can make your exposure worse by trapping some amount of air containing the virus under the mask, making you more exposed" Where is that evidence? "in medical facilities N95 masks are fitted specifically to individuals. You can't just throw one on and be protected. Most people won't go through the trouble of doing that properly." Most people haven't been washing their hands properly either, and yet the government has gone to great lengths to educate people on how to properly wash their hands. There's no reason they couldn't do the same with mask fitting.
- jmiskovic 7y agoI don't have any medical training, and speak only from perspective of common sense. Your argument about trapping virus inside the mask is not very convincing. If you are putting a physical barrier between your respiratory system and air in high-risk areas (general stores, pharmacies and public transportation), then statistically there should be far more prevented contacts with viruses than trapped virus particles. The incorrectly fitted masks should provide some benefit over no mask, so this doesn't seem as a good argument for not wearing masks. I would think that even putting shirt over nose gives some protection as it prevents touching face and diminishes odds of contamination with spit particles. Besides, the article is about home-made masks and not N95 masks. The only convincing reason against masks is that they give false sense of security, so they shouldn't be the _only_ measure. Washing hands, wearing masks and physical distancing can only be beneficial.
- dragontamer 7y ago> Also, don’t forget that in medical facilities N95 masks are fitted specifically to individuals. Lets not over-dramaticize N95 masks. An N95 mask is just 95% effective. Its not N99 or N100. N95 is the relatively cheap and disposable mask. Its "custom fit seal" is the little metal bar that you push down on your nose. Here is 3M's official fitting video. Its actually not very hard to use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05wyH1-mLGk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05wyH1-mLGk Then elastic bands shove the mask against your face, forming an airtight seal. This can be effectively replicated with a decent hand-made mask solution (although the filtration of a hand-made DIY mask is much much worse, and completely untested compared to N95 designs) Given the fact that we're in an N95 mask shortage situation, I think DIY home-made masks are the only solution for the general public. It just takes some scissors and a T-Shirt to make.
- yummybear 7y agoI'm wondering about this myself. I mean I can understand not wanting to put pressure on the health system by adding extra supply, but homemade masks - even a bandana, must ad at least some protection. Even if it only reduces R0 by a few procent that would mean a lot?
- chrisseaton 7y agoThey say it creates a false sense of security, which makes people more careless, which spreads more infection.
- darkerside 7y agoThe cure for misinformation is information. People can learn to wear masks correctly.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sjg007 7y agoThey need the masks for medical professionals and first responders basically. Surgeon general is thinking about the greater good here.
- stronglikedan 7y ago> for some reason They recommend against wearing medical to help cull the shortage, and they recommend against wearing non-medical because they can provide a false sense of security, especially when worn incorrectly. Both very good reasons, IMO. I just assume that anyone wearing a mask is doing so because they're infected, as per the recommendations, and I'm giving them a wide berth.
- dumbfounder 7y agoYes, but the messaging is not consistent which leads to public distrust, which might actually be worse. Don't wear masks, they don't help! But we need them because they do actually help! It's obviously not that simple but that's the way it's being perceived.
- stronglikedan 7y ago> which leads to public distrust Maybe a minority, as there will always be, but I think most people are aware of the difference between medical and non-medical masks, and feel the messaging is consistent.
- anon102010 7y agoDefinitely not - instead of emphasizing production the US has had this horrible no mask message - likely resulting in deaths
- analog31 7y ago>>> ...and I'm giving them a wide berth. Another reason to wear a mask.
- stronglikedan 7y agoNon-medical masks don't keep stuff out. They just keep stuff in, so the only reason to wear it is to not spread your water droplets when you sneeze or cough. Medical masks keep stuff out, but are in short supply. I think I'm helping more by going with the recommendations and not wearing a mask. Some people feel better wearing them, and that's fine too.
- BtM909 7y agoI still find it difficult to understand if homemade masks actually reduce, due to all the different messages out there. Even the links provided in the Google Docs (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/preview# https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4p...) are more focusing on professional masks. I even heard an "expert" saying on national TV that non-professional masks were worse, because the virus could actually stick to it :S
- Aunche 7y agoIf they recommended it, people would definitely hoard them. There isn't even a shortage of toilet paper, but people still hoard it.
- darkerside 7y agoTotally uncorrelated. Surgeon general isn't recommending people but toilet paper.
- oasisbob 7y agoIn some parts of the US like NW Washington, toilet paper is in short enough supply that some households need to put non-trivial time and effort to get some. It's hyper local. I got lucky and hit Costco in December. Feel like I still see it in stores sometime, but people need to shop around. Acetaminophen is trickier now.
- btbuildem 7y agoThey recommend against it, because recommending the use of masks would expose the universal lack of availability of even basic surgical masks. The on-demand system in the US cannot cope with events like this (no stockpiles). So, they're recommending we don't use masks, so that more masks are available for medical professionals, so that when most of us get sick via community transmission (because we don't have masks), the medical professionals can also run out of masks while they treat us.
- mindslight 7y agoJust a nit - mask production could have been ramped up throughout January and February, by executive order if necessary, if the virus had been acknowledged as a threat instead of simply being ignored for two months.