6 ms·

Interesting how the public opinion on this turned around as the virus spread. I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu

Interesting how the public opinion on this turned around as the virus spread. I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu season like people do in Asia.

ardy42 7y ago
> I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu season like people do in Asia. Normalizing masks will also help fight facial recognition. IIRC, the Chinese systems have trouble with people who are wearing a surgical mask and sunglasses. No attention-grabbing dazzle makeup required.
- saturday14 7y ago
  Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety" once the covid-19 crisis blows over. It sucks that we even need to think about wearing masks to escape facial recognition.
  - ardy42 7y ago
    > Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety" once the covid-19 crisis blows over. That's overly fatalistic. China hasn't banned them for that reason, and they're way more interested in that rationale than any government you're likely talking about. > It sucks that we even need to think about wearing masks to escape facial recognition. Avoiding facial recognition isn't just about avoiding the government facial recognition.
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      China has a comprehensive surveillance state that has fallbacks for cases when masks are not available.
  - thomascgalvin 7y ago
    Wearing a mask in public is already illegal in many places[1]. It's been illegal in New York since 1845, due to some kind of violent conflict between landlords and tenant farmers. Some laws were targeted at the KKK, and newer laws were targeted at Occupy and Anonymous folks wearing Guy Fawkes masks. This article[2] has a more complete list of state laws against masks, and where they've been overturned. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-states-where-protesters-cant-wear-masks-2019-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-states-where-prote...
  - pmoriarty 7y ago
    "Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety"" The government did this long ago, as a reaction to the KKK wearing masks to intimidate their victims and hide their identity. So it's actually already against the law to wear masks in public in many places in the US. I've never heard of this law being enforced in modern times, however.
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      The situation is a lot more nuanced than that. I challenge you to find an example of a blanket ban on all masks, that doesn't rely on other factors like threatening violence, rallying, intent to hide identity, or a respresenting specific gang design/color. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law
      - pubstik 7y ago
        'Intent to hide identity' sounds like a human right, criminalized. Unless asked by an officer, and even then in limited circumstances do I have to identify myself.
  - kalium-xyz 7y ago
    They just make you take the mask off to identify yourself when relevant, I had to do this the other day while identifying myself for an immigration officer.
  - mathieuh 7y ago
    I live in Northern Ireland, and until very recently, if I saw a person with a mask on I immediately assumed they were up to no good.
  - ThrowAway83774 7y ago
    The only effective resistance is being in control of information dissemination to the masses. Otherwise you will be marginalized and the masses will be "educated" by the mass media about how evil and troublesome "you people are." Ensuring diversity in information dissemination is absolutely key to shooting down these proposals which harm personal freedom.
Reebz 7y ago
While I agree, it wasn’t just general public opinion. In NYC at least, it was widely stated in the media by government officials and doctors that masks were unnecessary if you’re healthy, and actually could be bad because people were 1) removing surgical/n95 masks from supply, 2) wearing a cloth mask improperly sanitized can make you sick with other things. I like how Jeremy’s site has directly addressed those original concerns.
- chasd00 7y ago
  does it have to be n95 to prevent spread? my understanding was the n95 rating protects you from infected people where a plain old surgical mask protects others from you. In other words, the n95 mask has what it needs to prevent you inhaling the virus where a regular mask has what it needs to prevent a sneeze or cough from escaping to the people around you.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Can you explain how that could possibly be true? A surgical mask is just a simpler cheaper, less complete and less effective mask than an N95 mask, used in lower risk situations or when N95 is desired but not available. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInf...
  - ThrowAway83774 7y ago
    Your understanding is incomplete. Both filter virus particles with different degrees of effectiveness. Viruses are typically most present in aerosolized droplets which are much much bigger than the gap size of a surgical or n95 mask.
- throwaway32120 7y ago
  > In NYC at least, it was widely stated in the media by government officials and doctors that masks were unnecessary if you’re healthy, and actually could be bad The WHO and CDC have been pushing that line as well. Studies linked to in the above article suggest that even home made masks provide some protection to healthy individuals. But even if they didn't, getting everyone to wear them would be extremely valuable for stopping the spread coming from people who don't know they have the disease. Also, "Don't come in hear unless you have something covering your face" is an easy rule for establishments to enforce, whereas "If you have Coronavirus you need to cover your face" is impossible to enforce. Yet I've seen almost no leadership at any level in the U.S. pushing this (and this seems to be true in much of the West). Lockdowns buy us time, and we seem to be wasting that.

Interesting how the public opinion on this turned around as the virus spread. I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu season like people do in Asia.

ardy42 7y ago

> I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu season like people do in Asia. Normalizing masks will also help fight facial recognition. IIRC, the Chinese systems have trouble with people who are wearing a surgical mask and sunglasses. No attention-grabbing dazzle makeup required.

saturday14 7y ago
Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety" once the covid-19 crisis blows over. It sucks that we even need to think about wearing masks to escape facial recognition.
- ardy42 7y ago
  > Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety" once the covid-19 crisis blows over. That's overly fatalistic. China hasn't banned them for that reason, and they're way more interested in that rationale than any government you're likely talking about. > It sucks that we even need to think about wearing masks to escape facial recognition. Avoiding facial recognition isn't just about avoiding the government facial recognition.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    China has a comprehensive surveillance state that has fallbacks for cases when masks are not available.
- thomascgalvin 7y ago
  Wearing a mask in public is already illegal in many places[1]. It's been illegal in New York since 1845, due to some kind of violent conflict between landlords and tenant farmers. Some laws were targeted at the KKK, and newer laws were targeted at Occupy and Anonymous folks wearing Guy Fawkes masks. This article[2] has a more complete list of state laws against masks, and where they've been overturned. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-states-where-protesters-cant-wear-masks-2019-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-states-where-prote...
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  "Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety"" The government did this long ago, as a reaction to the KKK wearing masks to intimidate their victims and hide their identity. So it's actually already against the law to wear masks in public in many places in the US. I've never heard of this law being enforced in modern times, however.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    The situation is a lot more nuanced than that. I challenge you to find an example of a blanket ban on all masks, that doesn't rely on other factors like threatening violence, rallying, intent to hide identity, or a respresenting specific gang design/color. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law
    - pubstik 7y ago
      'Intent to hide identity' sounds like a human right, criminalized. Unless asked by an officer, and even then in limited circumstances do I have to identify myself.
- kalium-xyz 7y ago
  They just make you take the mask off to identify yourself when relevant, I had to do this the other day while identifying myself for an immigration officer.
- mathieuh 7y ago
  I live in Northern Ireland, and until very recently, if I saw a person with a mask on I immediately assumed they were up to no good.
- ThrowAway83774 7y ago
  The only effective resistance is being in control of information dissemination to the masses. Otherwise you will be marginalized and the masses will be "educated" by the mass media about how evil and troublesome "you people are." Ensuring diversity in information dissemination is absolutely key to shooting down these proposals which harm personal freedom.

Reebz 7y ago

While I agree, it wasn’t just general public opinion. In NYC at least, it was widely stated in the media by government officials and doctors that masks were unnecessary if you’re healthy, and actually could be bad because people were 1) removing surgical/n95 masks from supply, 2) wearing a cloth mask improperly sanitized can make you sick with other things. I like how Jeremy’s site has directly addressed those original concerns.

chasd00 7y ago
does it have to be n95 to prevent spread? my understanding was the n95 rating protects you from infected people where a plain old surgical mask protects others from you. In other words, the n95 mask has what it needs to prevent you inhaling the virus where a regular mask has what it needs to prevent a sneeze or cough from escaping to the people around you.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Can you explain how that could possibly be true? A surgical mask is just a simpler cheaper, less complete and less effective mask than an N95 mask, used in lower risk situations or when N95 is desired but not available. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInf...
- ThrowAway83774 7y ago
  Your understanding is incomplete. Both filter virus particles with different degrees of effectiveness. Viruses are typically most present in aerosolized droplets which are much much bigger than the gap size of a surgical or n95 mask.
throwaway32120 7y ago
> In NYC at least, it was widely stated in the media by government officials and doctors that masks were unnecessary if you’re healthy, and actually could be bad The WHO and CDC have been pushing that line as well. Studies linked to in the above article suggest that even home made masks provide some protection to healthy individuals. But even if they didn't, getting everyone to wear them would be extremely valuable for stopping the spread coming from people who don't know they have the disease. Also, "Don't come in hear unless you have something covering your face" is an easy rule for establishments to enforce, whereas "If you have Coronavirus you need to cover your face" is impossible to enforce. Yet I've seen almost no leadership at any level in the U.S. pushing this (and this seems to be true in much of the West). Lockdowns buy us time, and we seem to be wasting that.