4 ms·

Am I the only weirdo who prefers lead-free solders because they don't flow as much? They dry almost as soon as you take the heat off, which keeps parts from mo

Am I the only weirdo who prefers lead-free solders because they don't flow as much? They dry almost as soon as you take the heat off, which keeps parts from moving off their pads while it dries. And the iron doesn't seem to "pull" globs of the stuff around as much. I get really frustrated doing finicky work with leaded solders, but I'll happily do 0.5mm pitches by hand with lead-free. Maybe it's just because I learned with the stuff?

KC8ZKF 7y ago
Try 63/37 tin/lead instead of 60/40. 63/37 alloy is eutectic, meaning its melting and solidifying temperature is the same (183C). 60/40 has a semisolid state around its melting point (~=190C).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- unethical_ban 7y ago
  This guy hams! With your solder knowledge and call sign, I'm surprised you're just a tech!
  - KC8ZKF 7y ago
    Maybe this isolation we’re going through will give me time to upgrade. -73-
- serf 7y ago
  totally agree. I use kester 66/44 eutetic tin-lead solder on anything I care about. It's said that light-dark auto helmets make someone a welder nearly overnight; I think that same way about eutetic solder and soldering, it makes the job so much easier that the quality of the work skyrockets.
  - KMag 7y ago
    Any idea why, if the parts don't add to 100, they don't reduce the fraction in the solder name from 66/44 to 3/2? Un-reduced portions are handy if they're percentages, but if they're not going to be percentages, why not reduce the fraction?
    - nerdponx 7y ago
      Might be a typo? Usually you have 60/40 and 63/37.
    - jiveturkey 7y ago
      because you're comparing it to 63/37. it's much easier to grok the comparison when you use the same "units". in racing, they say to drive 10/10ths. not 1's. for the same reason.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        If they don't add up to 100, and neither of the numbers matches the default, they're not the same units.
IndrekR 7y ago
Same here. Learned on Pb last century, but have not touched it much since the industry made the shift (2006). It is so much easier to make bad joints that look good with leaded solder. Bad joint with SAC305 or SN100C looks like a bad joint. What has evolved a lot since the pre-RoHS lead-free panic (2002..2006) is synthetic flux. Hardly see rosin based fluxed in industry nowadays (where performance matters). For DIY stuff I mostly use SAC305 solder with synthetic mild flux (REL0) like LF4300 (water soluble, in theory no clean, but you do not want to leave this working in very humid environment) or SMD291NL (true no clean). In production different ones depending on the end product and components. Activity and cleaning requirements are main characteristics to choose by.
- nerdponx 7y ago
  What's your experience desoldering lead-free? In the custom keyboard hobby you often have people desoldering 160+ through hole joints. With good tools (Hakko FR301) and good solder (Kester 63/37) that's a 15 minute job, but the frustration level and time commitment increase significantly as your tool quality or solder quality declines. How would doing a whole keyboard of lead-free compare? Especially if you don't have $300-500 invested in gear. Another question is, how's quality of life on surface mount components in a home/DIY setting? Obviously industry has no trouble here, but sometimes you need to do 0602 or a TQFP by hand.
  - labawi 7y ago
    Not OP, but I remove the component (not hard) and drill the hole. Never managed to wick away solder.
    - nerdponx 7y ago
      Not the answer I was hoping for. 99% of the time your keyboard PCB isn't disposable, you need to keep both the board and the components intact.
atoav 7y ago
No, I am the same as you — lead free is different, but not worse. Just like you I started using pretty much both from the start. I think the perception of lead free solder as beeing worse or harder to solder is mostly due to braking with one's habits. A bit like a subtle version of driving your car in the UK as a continental European: all the signs seem to be at the wrong side. Lead free behaves differently for sure (although how exactly also depends on the mixture, iron power, temperature), but as you I actually find it better and not worse.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  I used both leaded[1] and lead free. Only thing with lead free is needing a little more heat and making sure everything is clean. Anything tinned or with a flash of silver/gold solders just fine. And I think I've seen tin whiskers once in 20 years. I'm dubious it's a problem for 99% of commercial applications. Unlike mil spec the temperature extremes are less, IC's are encapsulated[2]. And I suspect lead free alloys aren't as problematic as pure tin. Either way industrial production, processing and eventual disposal of lead is bad news. [1] Nicest solder I've used is lead/tin/antimony. Stuff was the shit. [2] Early papers I read were all about pure tin solder causing problems inside hermetically sealed packages.
alxlaz 7y ago
> Maybe it's just because I learned with the stuff? Quite possibly. I learned to solder last century, using leaded solder, which was available in copious amounts in my dad's workshop for a long time, throughout my high school and university years. It took me a few weeks to get used to lead-free solder and it was days before I could solder anything correctly. I pretty much re-learned it. I sat for two days and did nothing but solder stuff at random until it started coming out right again.
alpaca128 7y ago
Same here. I started soldering with lead solder and found it utterly frustrating, it constantly felt like the solder ignored gravity. Then a few years later I picked it up again with lead free solder and suddenly it was super easy and the solder flowed exactly how I expected. I'm not very proficient at it but since then I never messed up a pin.

KC8ZKF 7y ago

Try 63/37 tin/lead instead of 60/40. 63/37 alloy is eutectic, meaning its melting and solidifying temperature is the same (183C). 60/40 has a semisolid state around its melting point (~=190C).

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
unethical_ban 7y ago
This guy hams! With your solder knowledge and call sign, I'm surprised you're just a tech!
- KC8ZKF 7y ago
  Maybe this isolation we’re going through will give me time to upgrade. -73-
serf 7y ago
totally agree. I use kester 66/44 eutetic tin-lead solder on anything I care about. It's said that light-dark auto helmets make someone a welder nearly overnight; I think that same way about eutetic solder and soldering, it makes the job so much easier that the quality of the work skyrockets.
- KMag 7y ago
  Any idea why, if the parts don't add to 100, they don't reduce the fraction in the solder name from 66/44 to 3/2? Un-reduced portions are handy if they're percentages, but if they're not going to be percentages, why not reduce the fraction?
  - nerdponx 7y ago
    Might be a typo? Usually you have 60/40 and 63/37.
  - jiveturkey 7y ago
    because you're comparing it to 63/37. it's much easier to grok the comparison when you use the same "units". in racing, they say to drive 10/10ths. not 1's. for the same reason.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      If they don't add up to 100, and neither of the numbers matches the default, they're not the same units.

IndrekR 7y ago

Same here. Learned on Pb last century, but have not touched it much since the industry made the shift (2006). It is so much easier to make bad joints that look good with leaded solder. Bad joint with SAC305 or SN100C looks like a bad joint. What has evolved a lot since the pre-RoHS lead-free panic (2002..2006) is synthetic flux. Hardly see rosin based fluxed in industry nowadays (where performance matters). For DIY stuff I mostly use SAC305 solder with synthetic mild flux (REL0) like LF4300 (water soluble, in theory no clean, but you do not want to leave this working in very humid environment) or SMD291NL (true no clean). In production different ones depending on the end product and components. Activity and cleaning requirements are main characteristics to choose by.

nerdponx 7y ago
What's your experience desoldering lead-free? In the custom keyboard hobby you often have people desoldering 160+ through hole joints. With good tools (Hakko FR301) and good solder (Kester 63/37) that's a 15 minute job, but the frustration level and time commitment increase significantly as your tool quality or solder quality declines. How would doing a whole keyboard of lead-free compare? Especially if you don't have $300-500 invested in gear. Another question is, how's quality of life on surface mount components in a home/DIY setting? Obviously industry has no trouble here, but sometimes you need to do 0602 or a TQFP by hand.
- labawi 7y ago
  Not OP, but I remove the component (not hard) and drill the hole. Never managed to wick away solder.
  - nerdponx 7y ago
    Not the answer I was hoping for. 99% of the time your keyboard PCB isn't disposable, you need to keep both the board and the components intact.

atoav 7y ago

No, I am the same as you — lead free is different, but not worse. Just like you I started using pretty much both from the start. I think the perception of lead free solder as beeing worse or harder to solder is mostly due to braking with one's habits. A bit like a subtle version of driving your car in the UK as a continental European: all the signs seem to be at the wrong side. Lead free behaves differently for sure (although how exactly also depends on the mixture, iron power, temperature), but as you I actually find it better and not worse.

Gibbon1 7y ago
I used both leaded[1] and lead free. Only thing with lead free is needing a little more heat and making sure everything is clean. Anything tinned or with a flash of silver/gold solders just fine. And I think I've seen tin whiskers once in 20 years. I'm dubious it's a problem for 99% of commercial applications. Unlike mil spec the temperature extremes are less, IC's are encapsulated[2]. And I suspect lead free alloys aren't as problematic as pure tin. Either way industrial production, processing and eventual disposal of lead is bad news. [1] Nicest solder I've used is lead/tin/antimony. Stuff was the shit. [2] Early papers I read were all about pure tin solder causing problems inside hermetically sealed packages.

alxlaz 7y ago

> Maybe it's just because I learned with the stuff? Quite possibly. I learned to solder last century, using leaded solder, which was available in copious amounts in my dad's workshop for a long time, throughout my high school and university years. It took me a few weeks to get used to lead-free solder and it was days before I could solder anything correctly. I pretty much re-learned it. I sat for two days and did nothing but solder stuff at random until it started coming out right again.

alpaca128 7y ago

Same here. I started soldering with lead solder and found it utterly frustrating, it constantly felt like the solder ignored gravity. Then a few years later I picked it up again with lead free solder and suddenly it was super easy and the solder flowed exactly how I expected. I'm not very proficient at it but since then I never messed up a pin.