4 ms·

I don’t understand the level of outrage here, it doesn’t seem to match the reality of what happened which was Yelp trying to help small businesses in a way they

by z9e 7y ago

I don’t understand the level of outrage here, it doesn’t seem to match the reality of what happened which was Yelp trying to help small businesses in a way they can. The opt-out and heads up for sure could’ve been done better though. But I don’t think it deserves this much aggression.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kadoban 7y ago
Business owners right now have a bunch of crap they're dealing with. They really don't need extra nonsense to opt-out of, and from the sounds of it the opt-out is more than just a button click.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  What I don't understand is why seemingly the majority want to opt-out. Sure, it's a bit weird and presumptuous and they botched the communication, but these businesses really are struggling and they're potentially being handed free money? Edit: I know Yelp has a track record of being scummy, it's just that in this case the catch isn't clear from my perspective
  - eesmith 7y ago
    DNA Lounge already has a Patreon page at https://www.patreon.com/dnalounge https://www.patreon.com/dnalounge and a one-time donation page at https://www.dnalounge.com/donate/ https://www.dnalounge.com/donate/ . What happens if an alternative GoFundMe site, auto-generated by Yelp, results in a reduction of the overall donation stream? Then it wouldn't be "free money", would it? So, who decides if this plan is appropriate for the business? Hint: not Yelp. Which is why it shouldn't be opt-out. Plus, Yelp was defaulting to a 15% cut for Yelp. So if people were going to send $1,000 to a restaurant, but did it through Yelp instead of directly, then that would be an overall net loss.
  - true_religion 7y ago
    A lot of restaurants are not struggling. Their chefs are still working and their waitstaff have turned into delivery drivers. This doesn’t work for every fancy restaurant where the markup was for the experience but for food worth it’s price, it’s still worth it at home.
jedimastert 7y ago
Aside from the already mentioned predatory nature of Yelp (I personally watched a smear campaign happen to a bar I played piano at in another life), IANAL but I think raising money for your business could have all sorts of unintended tax and legal ramifications the business owners did not sign up for. Also, having one business have one of these campaigns but not, say, a competitor could be seen as a sign of weakness. Conversely, it could be seen as anti-competitive behaviour
remarkEon 7y ago
The problem appears to be that it's not clear this money is actually "theirs" (the businesses), customers intending to donate via Go Fund Me through Yelp likely think they're actually giving money straight to the business when they're not, and businesses have to "claim" it later on (and yelp seems to have done a not-perfect job of letting them know about the whole thing). I think what's happening here is that Yelp's already toxic relationship with bars/restaurants in general is operating these owners' priors on what the intent of the whole endeavor was. "Fk all these people" might be rude but I'm going to suspend my usual condemnation of otherwise unjustified outrage right now, for obvious reasons.
ryandrake 7y ago
I listed a couple of reasons in the previous HN story about this [1]. Ultimately I think it comes down to the lack of consent. These guys just unilaterally decided to involve all these companies in a business arrangement without getting any consent from the business owners. Think of it this way: how would you like it if some prominent web site all of a sudden decided to put up a web page with your name on it and a picture of your face asking people for donations for the destitute and promising to send what they collect to you? 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707173 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707173
- LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
  Blackmail, extortion, protection money...
miguelmota 7y ago
I agree it could have been rolled out better but people generally don't like surprises especially things like the donation page that probably signal that their businesses are on financial life support even if it's not the case.

by z9e 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

kadoban 7y ago

Business owners right now have a bunch of crap they're dealing with. They really don't need extra nonsense to opt-out of, and from the sounds of it the opt-out is more than just a button click.

_bxg1 7y ago
What I don't understand is why seemingly the majority want to opt-out. Sure, it's a bit weird and presumptuous and they botched the communication, but these businesses really are struggling and they're potentially being handed free money? Edit: I know Yelp has a track record of being scummy, it's just that in this case the catch isn't clear from my perspective
- eesmith 7y ago
  DNA Lounge already has a Patreon page at https://www.patreon.com/dnalounge https://www.patreon.com/dnalounge and a one-time donation page at https://www.dnalounge.com/donate/ https://www.dnalounge.com/donate/ . What happens if an alternative GoFundMe site, auto-generated by Yelp, results in a reduction of the overall donation stream? Then it wouldn't be "free money", would it? So, who decides if this plan is appropriate for the business? Hint: not Yelp. Which is why it shouldn't be opt-out. Plus, Yelp was defaulting to a 15% cut for Yelp. So if people were going to send $1,000 to a restaurant, but did it through Yelp instead of directly, then that would be an overall net loss.
- true_religion 7y ago
  A lot of restaurants are not struggling. Their chefs are still working and their waitstaff have turned into delivery drivers. This doesn’t work for every fancy restaurant where the markup was for the experience but for food worth it’s price, it’s still worth it at home.

jedimastert 7y ago

Aside from the already mentioned predatory nature of Yelp (I personally watched a smear campaign happen to a bar I played piano at in another life), IANAL but I think raising money for your business could have all sorts of unintended tax and legal ramifications the business owners did not sign up for. Also, having one business have one of these campaigns but not, say, a competitor could be seen as a sign of weakness. Conversely, it could be seen as anti-competitive behaviour

remarkEon 7y ago

The problem appears to be that it's not clear this money is actually "theirs" (the businesses), customers intending to donate via Go Fund Me through Yelp likely think they're actually giving money straight to the business when they're not, and businesses have to "claim" it later on (and yelp seems to have done a not-perfect job of letting them know about the whole thing). I think what's happening here is that Yelp's already toxic relationship with bars/restaurants in general is operating these owners' priors on what the intent of the whole endeavor was. "Fk all these people" might be rude but I'm going to suspend my usual condemnation of otherwise unjustified outrage right now, for obvious reasons.

ryandrake 7y ago

I listed a couple of reasons in the previous HN story about this [1]. Ultimately I think it comes down to the lack of consent. These guys just unilaterally decided to involve all these companies in a business arrangement without getting any consent from the business owners. Think of it this way: how would you like it if some prominent web site all of a sudden decided to put up a web page with your name on it and a picture of your face asking people for donations for the destitute and promising to send what they collect to you? 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707173 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707173

LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
Blackmail, extortion, protection money...

miguelmota 7y ago

I agree it could have been rolled out better but people generally don't like surprises especially things like the donation page that probably signal that their businesses are on financial life support even if it's not the case.