4 ms·

Isn't there a saying "God only helps those who help themselves". Surely the logical way to interoperate this is that you should stay at home, not get infected a

Isn't there a saying "God only helps those who help themselves". Surely the logical way to interoperate this is that you should stay at home, not get infected and pray from home.

gjsman-1000 7y ago
Not necessarily. By "God only helps those who help themselves," we are called to take reasonable precautions, and to pray for those afflicted as much as possible within our state in life. Furthermore, the Holy Mass is the most powerful prayer that can be offered to God. We have celibate priests who chose to volunteer their lives and give up the goods of marriage just for the ability to say this prayer. We certainly do not abandon this prayer when we need it most.
- sjwright 7y ago
  Requiring priests to be celibate is basically asking them to self-select based on how much normative heterosexual relationships appeal to them.
  - gjsman-1000 7y ago
    Possibly, but we do believe that God's priesthood is a divine institution, thus God will select members for it. Those selected will begin to have a natural inclination towards the priesthood, though because of the gift of free will, they have the choice whether to accept or deny the calling.
    - sjwright 7y ago
      What free will? There’s only one timeline, only one past, only one future. The only difference between the past and the future is we think we can see the past. The universe is clearly deterministic. Our brains just do an astonishingly good job of making us think we’re the authors of our own decisions; were it not for that powerful illusion we’d immediately recognise free will as the absurdity which it is.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    It's asking them to self-select based on how much the priesthood appeals to them. Not all Christian denominations may agree that pastors must be celibate, but we all agree that leading a church isn't something you do from 9 to 5 while maintaining a normal life on the side.
    - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
      Agreed, it usually involves bringing some kids home from church after hours.
      - dang 7y ago
        Please don't do this here.
- yibg 7y ago
  As someone that's not religious, I never understood prayer. I mean if God already has a plan for everything and everyone, wouldn't the prayer already been taken into consideration so that it shouldn't effect the outcome at all?
  - gjsman-1000 7y ago
    I would recommend reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church from section 2558 onward. It's free online and you might be surprised at how understandable, clear, and honest of a definition of prayer it is. https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1.htm https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s...
    - yibg 7y ago
      Thanks for the additional resource, but I don't find it understandable at all. I mean I understand the words, but together I have no idea how to interpret them. For example, "Only when we humbly acknowledge that "we do not know how to pray as we ought," are we ready to receive freely the gift of prayer." What does that mean? It seems to be saying that prayer is communion with God, but also that "Prayer is the raising of one's mind and heart to God or the requesting of good things from God." So is prayer a request of God or not?
  - notacoward 7y ago
    Think of "God's plan" as being like a computer program. Even if the "code" doesn't change, it can still yield different outcomes based on run-time inputs. Whether we pray, whether we repent, whether we even believe, etc. are such inputs. Free will says we can choose to do these things are not, but it doesn't mean there won't be divine response. At the very least, this is usually construed as affecting whether we go to heaven or hell. Depending on how far you take it, it can lead all the way to the "prosperity gospel" idea that shows of devotion can be directly tied to immediate and material reward. Prayer is the button that you push. It might have no effect, and whether it does or not might be preordained, but you still have to push it to find out.
xenophonf 7y ago
Sure, Sophocles said that, along with other ancient Greek philosophers and playwrights. I think that no matter one's beliefs, pretty much everyone would agree that a person who takes risks (especially with other people's lives) while thinking someone or something else will bail them out is being prideful, which is a bad thing.

Isn't there a saying "God only helps those who help themselves". Surely the logical way to interoperate this is that you should stay at home, not get infected and pray from home.

gjsman-1000 7y ago

Not necessarily. By "God only helps those who help themselves," we are called to take reasonable precautions, and to pray for those afflicted as much as possible within our state in life. Furthermore, the Holy Mass is the most powerful prayer that can be offered to God. We have celibate priests who chose to volunteer their lives and give up the goods of marriage just for the ability to say this prayer. We certainly do not abandon this prayer when we need it most.

sjwright 7y ago
Requiring priests to be celibate is basically asking them to self-select based on how much normative heterosexual relationships appeal to them.
- gjsman-1000 7y ago
  Possibly, but we do believe that God's priesthood is a divine institution, thus God will select members for it. Those selected will begin to have a natural inclination towards the priesthood, though because of the gift of free will, they have the choice whether to accept or deny the calling.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    What free will? There’s only one timeline, only one past, only one future. The only difference between the past and the future is we think we can see the past. The universe is clearly deterministic. Our brains just do an astonishingly good job of making us think we’re the authors of our own decisions; were it not for that powerful illusion we’d immediately recognise free will as the absurdity which it is.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  It's asking them to self-select based on how much the priesthood appeals to them. Not all Christian denominations may agree that pastors must be celibate, but we all agree that leading a church isn't something you do from 9 to 5 while maintaining a normal life on the side.
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    Agreed, it usually involves bringing some kids home from church after hours.
    - dang 7y ago
      Please don't do this here.
yibg 7y ago
As someone that's not religious, I never understood prayer. I mean if God already has a plan for everything and everyone, wouldn't the prayer already been taken into consideration so that it shouldn't effect the outcome at all?
- gjsman-1000 7y ago
  I would recommend reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church from section 2558 onward. It's free online and you might be surprised at how understandable, clear, and honest of a definition of prayer it is. https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1.htm https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s...
  - yibg 7y ago
    Thanks for the additional resource, but I don't find it understandable at all. I mean I understand the words, but together I have no idea how to interpret them. For example, "Only when we humbly acknowledge that "we do not know how to pray as we ought," are we ready to receive freely the gift of prayer." What does that mean? It seems to be saying that prayer is communion with God, but also that "Prayer is the raising of one's mind and heart to God or the requesting of good things from God." So is prayer a request of God or not?
- notacoward 7y ago
  Think of "God's plan" as being like a computer program. Even if the "code" doesn't change, it can still yield different outcomes based on run-time inputs. Whether we pray, whether we repent, whether we even believe, etc. are such inputs. Free will says we can choose to do these things are not, but it doesn't mean there won't be divine response. At the very least, this is usually construed as affecting whether we go to heaven or hell. Depending on how far you take it, it can lead all the way to the "prosperity gospel" idea that shows of devotion can be directly tied to immediate and material reward. Prayer is the button that you push. It might have no effect, and whether it does or not might be preordained, but you still have to push it to find out.

xenophonf 7y ago

Sure, Sophocles said that, along with other ancient Greek philosophers and playwrights. I think that no matter one's beliefs, pretty much everyone would agree that a person who takes risks (especially with other people's lives) while thinking someone or something else will bail them out is being prideful, which is a bad thing.