3 ms·

> Just like you don't want a front-ender doing back-end or systems This is not the argument I'm making though. That implies the front dev has no oversight. I

> Just like you don't want a front-ender doing back-end or systems This is not the argument I'm making though. That implies the front dev has no oversight. I'm making the argument that a frontend development can successfully complete features with the guidance/oversight of a backend dev. The results might not be ideal, but it can provide an acceptable outcome. ---- > You need the experience and you need the detailed instruction. That's why there are certification programs around the operating of complex healthcare machinery. These programs are focused on developing individuals who can robustly and independently manage this complex machinery. Should we also discredit airline pilots because laypeople have landed planes in emergencies? Or discredit sports professionals because many can kick a ball?

jacquesm 7y ago
There are exactly 6 known instances of talk down landings that I'm aware of. All concerned general aviation and in one of them the person had prior flight experience. Several of those ended in a crash. A general aviation plane is in no way comparable to a large airliner, and no instance of such a landing has ever been recorded, nor has it been attempted. Life is not a movie, some stuff is just hard and requires a long time of training before we'll let you go 'solo'. One mistake and someone ends up dead, there are no do-overs, there is no undo button. The last thing ICU's need right now is on top of all the stress already going on there to be overrun by eager rookies that are trying to help. The best we can do - and this is happening in some places - is to move up the training schedule and to graduate ICU nurses early. This is need for several reasons: to man the extra ICU capacity that is coming online and to take the place of those who have died or can't take it anymore due to psychological stress.
- joe_the_user 7y ago
  Life is not a movie, some stuff is just hard ... I think this sort of language is why a lot of non-professionals are sort-of balking. Life currently is like a movie. A zombie or some similar disaster movie, a situation where things are changing fast, where the normal plans are expected to fail. ...and requires a long time of training before we'll let you go 'solo'. One mistake and someone ends up dead, there are no do-overs, there is no undo button. We are talking about a situation, coming up in X many days, when it won't be a matter of the authorities "letting" people try but a matter of the entire health system being overwhelmed. What are the other, workable plans you have for people dying in the parking lots of the emergency room? And yeah, this is a different world, one where we expect people to end up dead and we're asking how to decrease that are much as possible. This horrible movie is the consensus of most projections. The question is not "could we deal with this? Can we play doctor, please!" but rather "how should we best deal with an ongoing disaster where we're assured, the doctors will be gone. Surely there's something one could beside 'die in place'?". The last thing ICU's need right now is on top of all the stress already going on there to be overrun by eager rookies that are trying to help. If the ICUs have a different, workable plan for when they are overrun with a massive number of patients, I'll be tremendously happy. The only thing I hear is "this won't work" "but what can we do?" "don't you understand that this won't work"....
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    > Life currently is like a movie. A zombie or some similar disaster movie, a situation where things are changing fast, where the normal plans are expected to fail. No, because after a movie you get to go home, no matter how terrible it was. And in real life you don't get to go home. So you will have to trust in the people that have spent their lives preparing for stuff like this while we, the software smartasses were 'changing the world' with our SaaS toys. Right now the best programmer is worth less than a mediocre ICU nurse, and that will remain so for a while. Afterwards we can all go back to pretending they don't matter but right now this is how it is. > We are talking about a situation, coming up in X many days, when it won't be a matter of the authorities "letting" people try but a matter of the entire health system being overwhelmed. That's a past station in some places. > What are the other, workable plans you have for people dying in the parking lots of the emergency room? I don't have any plans. They will die. Because we were too stupid to listen to those sounding the alarm when it mattered. > And yeah, this is a different world, one where we expect people to end up dead and we're asking how to decrease that are much as possible. We can decrease it as much as possible by stopping to move around so much. And yet, that seems to be too much to ask. Just now in another thread some religious guy claiming an exception just because the risk was low. I sincerely hope they'll all be fine, I also hope that if they are not that they'll trust their god rather than to hog precious ICU capacity needed by people who were careful and who did not seek this out on purpose. > If the ICUs have a different, workable plan for when they are overrun with a massive number of patients, I'll be tremendously happy. The only thing I hear is "this won't work" "but what can we do?" "don't you understand that this won't work".... The ICU staff is working double shifts and around the clock in plenty of places. They too get ill, plenty of them have already died. It's a bit late to stick your oar in now and make it your mission, I totally sympathize with the intentions but this isn't your fight other than to stay put, tell other people to stay put and accept that this story will not have a Hollywood ending for many people.
    - joe_the_user 7y ago
      The ICU staff is working double shifts and around the clock in plenty of places. They too get ill, plenty of them have already died. It's a bit late to stick your oar in now and make it your mission, I totally sympathize with the intentions but this isn't your fight other than to stay put, tell other people to stay put and accept that this story will not have a Hollywood ending for many people. This language of addressing each posters as if they personally had this intention is pretty bizarre. It's very much the language of "proper authorities are taking care of that." I don't personally have any intention of jumping but I'm part of a community and part of a situation where the proper authorities aren't taking care things.
- thu2111 7y ago
  no instance of such a landing has ever been recorded, nor has it been attempted It has in a simulator.

jacquesm 7y ago

There are exactly 6 known instances of talk down landings that I'm aware of. All concerned general aviation and in one of them the person had prior flight experience. Several of those ended in a crash. A general aviation plane is in no way comparable to a large airliner, and no instance of such a landing has ever been recorded, nor has it been attempted. Life is not a movie, some stuff is just hard and requires a long time of training before we'll let you go 'solo'. One mistake and someone ends up dead, there are no do-overs, there is no undo button. The last thing ICU's need right now is on top of all the stress already going on there to be overrun by eager rookies that are trying to help. The best we can do - and this is happening in some places - is to move up the training schedule and to graduate ICU nurses early. This is need for several reasons: to man the extra ICU capacity that is coming online and to take the place of those who have died or can't take it anymore due to psychological stress.

joe_the_user 7y ago
Life is not a movie, some stuff is just hard ... I think this sort of language is why a lot of non-professionals are sort-of balking. Life currently is like a movie. A zombie or some similar disaster movie, a situation where things are changing fast, where the normal plans are expected to fail. ...and requires a long time of training before we'll let you go 'solo'. One mistake and someone ends up dead, there are no do-overs, there is no undo button. We are talking about a situation, coming up in X many days, when it won't be a matter of the authorities "letting" people try but a matter of the entire health system being overwhelmed. What are the other, workable plans you have for people dying in the parking lots of the emergency room? And yeah, this is a different world, one where we expect people to end up dead and we're asking how to decrease that are much as possible. This horrible movie is the consensus of most projections. The question is not "could we deal with this? Can we play doctor, please!" but rather "how should we best deal with an ongoing disaster where we're assured, the doctors will be gone. Surely there's something one could beside 'die in place'?". The last thing ICU's need right now is on top of all the stress already going on there to be overrun by eager rookies that are trying to help. If the ICUs have a different, workable plan for when they are overrun with a massive number of patients, I'll be tremendously happy. The only thing I hear is "this won't work" "but what can we do?" "don't you understand that this won't work"....
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > Life currently is like a movie. A zombie or some similar disaster movie, a situation where things are changing fast, where the normal plans are expected to fail. No, because after a movie you get to go home, no matter how terrible it was. And in real life you don't get to go home. So you will have to trust in the people that have spent their lives preparing for stuff like this while we, the software smartasses were 'changing the world' with our SaaS toys. Right now the best programmer is worth less than a mediocre ICU nurse, and that will remain so for a while. Afterwards we can all go back to pretending they don't matter but right now this is how it is. > We are talking about a situation, coming up in X many days, when it won't be a matter of the authorities "letting" people try but a matter of the entire health system being overwhelmed. That's a past station in some places. > What are the other, workable plans you have for people dying in the parking lots of the emergency room? I don't have any plans. They will die. Because we were too stupid to listen to those sounding the alarm when it mattered. > And yeah, this is a different world, one where we expect people to end up dead and we're asking how to decrease that are much as possible. We can decrease it as much as possible by stopping to move around so much. And yet, that seems to be too much to ask. Just now in another thread some religious guy claiming an exception just because the risk was low. I sincerely hope they'll all be fine, I also hope that if they are not that they'll trust their god rather than to hog precious ICU capacity needed by people who were careful and who did not seek this out on purpose. > If the ICUs have a different, workable plan for when they are overrun with a massive number of patients, I'll be tremendously happy. The only thing I hear is "this won't work" "but what can we do?" "don't you understand that this won't work".... The ICU staff is working double shifts and around the clock in plenty of places. They too get ill, plenty of them have already died. It's a bit late to stick your oar in now and make it your mission, I totally sympathize with the intentions but this isn't your fight other than to stay put, tell other people to stay put and accept that this story will not have a Hollywood ending for many people.
  - joe_the_user 7y ago
    The ICU staff is working double shifts and around the clock in plenty of places. They too get ill, plenty of them have already died. It's a bit late to stick your oar in now and make it your mission, I totally sympathize with the intentions but this isn't your fight other than to stay put, tell other people to stay put and accept that this story will not have a Hollywood ending for many people. This language of addressing each posters as if they personally had this intention is pretty bizarre. It's very much the language of "proper authorities are taking care of that." I don't personally have any intention of jumping but I'm part of a community and part of a situation where the proper authorities aren't taking care things.
thu2111 7y ago
no instance of such a landing has ever been recorded, nor has it been attempted It has in a simulator.