3 ms·

Less efficient face masks (e.g., surgical or medical) also decrease exposure to aerosols of droplet nuclei to a lesser (8–12 fold) degree than N95 masks (36), a

Less efficient face masks (e.g., surgical or medical) also decrease exposure to aerosols of droplet nuclei to a lesser (8–12 fold) degree than N95 masks (36), and they provide protection against larger droplets. We did not determine the type of mask worn by the passengers; presumably, individually acquired masks represented a mixture of N95 and other less efficient masks. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/) Can't really tell if those people "improperly" wore the masks but most people prior to COVID-19 wore standard surgical style masks. As I stated in my previous post, doing things to limit transmission is not a binary act. Just because you can't limit transmission all day does not mean that you should not try at all. Just because we can't completely eliminate Covid-19 doesn't mean that we shouldn't flatten the curve.

brigandish 7y ago
Yes, I'm reading the actual study too. It proves nothing which is why they conclude with: > We recommend a more compre- hensive intervention study to accurately estimate the pro- tective effect of face masks for preventing influenza virus transmission on long-distance flights. accurately being the operative word. > Just because you can't limit transmission all day does not mean that you should not try at all. I have not suggested not to try, only to do things that actually work and are evidence based. Would you suggest wearing an amulet? They wear those in Asia too. They have a modern version in the shops in Japan, I forget its name but it's a little bag of something you wear round your neck that they claim prevents flu transmission. > Just because we can't completely eliminate Covid-19 doesn't mean that we shouldn't flatten the curve. That's a poor comparison, of course we should flatten the curve using methods that are shown to be effective.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  > I have not suggested not to try, only to do things that actually work and are evidence based. Would you suggest wearing an amulet? They wear those in Asia too. They have a modern version in the shops in Japan, I forget its name but it's a little bag of something you wear round your neck that they claim prevents flu transmission. Ironically, this is probably how we got into this mess in the first place, because some Chinese medicine cure prescribed eating wild bat meat.
  - chrischen 7y ago
    Bill gates was recently talking on TV about how the virus could have mutated from anywhere... there's also swine flu, bird flu, mad cow disease, yet Jewish and Muslim people don't go around blaming Mexican/American people for their swine consumption sins (at least they shouldn't). Blaming it on the fact that Chinese people ate Bat meat is as bit culturally prejudicial as calling it the Chinese virus.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      Chinese medicine has a lot of costs for little if any benefits. Disease from live animals is just one of them, but then their is the medical resources wasted on not really cures, hospital profiteering, and not to mention causing entire species to become endangered or even extinct. Peer review and control study the stuff that works and call it normal medicine, the rest of the folk cures might as well be homeopathy. Blame Mao for calling this junk Chinese medicine in the first place, before he pushed forward the concept to make up for a lack of real medical resources, it was all just a bunch of disparate folk cures in and around the country.
      - chrischen 7y ago
        I did some research on bats vs pangolins. It seems that pangolins are illegal in China and sometimes used for medicine (though I'm not sure if consuming them raw is a part of it). I think the practice of illegal animal trading of pangolins is a separate issue altogether from just consuming non beef/pork/chicken food that we're used to. However from what I can tell the consumption of bats, while uncommon, is just as a normal food source: https://www.quora.com/Do-Chinese-eat-bats?share=1 https://www.quora.com/Do-Chinese-eat-bats?share=1. Though some consider wild animals in general as aphrodisiacs. > Peer review and control study the stuff that works and call it normal medicine, the rest of the folk cures might as well be homeopathy. Chinese medicine is also practiced in Taiwan, and while the system differs from the West, it's based on tradition. If you believe in evolution, then you should believe that in general only methodologies that have some effect would survive over time. That's the basis of traditional medicine at least, and just because it's not quantified and understood in the Western way does not mean it is all fake.
- chrischen 7y ago
  So why are hospitals making home-made masks or using surgical masks when tending to covid-19 patients? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22716618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22716618
  - brigandish 7y ago
    Because, to repeat myself, there is evidence that surgical masks used by a trained (in the use of masks and in proper behaviour around the sick) clinicians in a clinical setting do have efficacy. These trained people in an entirely different setting than the ones your are advocating their use in by untrained people will also: - not reuse masks - remove masks correctly and at appropriate times - dispose of masks correctly - engage in several other related behaviours that will prevent transmission World of difference.

brigandish 7y ago

Yes, I'm reading the actual study too. It proves nothing which is why they conclude with: > We recommend a more compre- hensive intervention study to accurately estimate the pro- tective effect of face masks for preventing influenza virus transmission on long-distance flights. accurately being the operative word. > Just because you can't limit transmission all day does not mean that you should not try at all. I have not suggested not to try, only to do things that actually work and are evidence based. Would you suggest wearing an amulet? They wear those in Asia too. They have a modern version in the shops in Japan, I forget its name but it's a little bag of something you wear round your neck that they claim prevents flu transmission. > Just because we can't completely eliminate Covid-19 doesn't mean that we shouldn't flatten the curve. That's a poor comparison, of course we should flatten the curve using methods that are shown to be effective.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
> I have not suggested not to try, only to do things that actually work and are evidence based. Would you suggest wearing an amulet? They wear those in Asia too. They have a modern version in the shops in Japan, I forget its name but it's a little bag of something you wear round your neck that they claim prevents flu transmission. Ironically, this is probably how we got into this mess in the first place, because some Chinese medicine cure prescribed eating wild bat meat.
- chrischen 7y ago
  Bill gates was recently talking on TV about how the virus could have mutated from anywhere... there's also swine flu, bird flu, mad cow disease, yet Jewish and Muslim people don't go around blaming Mexican/American people for their swine consumption sins (at least they shouldn't). Blaming it on the fact that Chinese people ate Bat meat is as bit culturally prejudicial as calling it the Chinese virus.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Chinese medicine has a lot of costs for little if any benefits. Disease from live animals is just one of them, but then their is the medical resources wasted on not really cures, hospital profiteering, and not to mention causing entire species to become endangered or even extinct. Peer review and control study the stuff that works and call it normal medicine, the rest of the folk cures might as well be homeopathy. Blame Mao for calling this junk Chinese medicine in the first place, before he pushed forward the concept to make up for a lack of real medical resources, it was all just a bunch of disparate folk cures in and around the country.
    - chrischen 7y ago
      I did some research on bats vs pangolins. It seems that pangolins are illegal in China and sometimes used for medicine (though I'm not sure if consuming them raw is a part of it). I think the practice of illegal animal trading of pangolins is a separate issue altogether from just consuming non beef/pork/chicken food that we're used to. However from what I can tell the consumption of bats, while uncommon, is just as a normal food source: https://www.quora.com/Do-Chinese-eat-bats?share=1 https://www.quora.com/Do-Chinese-eat-bats?share=1. Though some consider wild animals in general as aphrodisiacs. > Peer review and control study the stuff that works and call it normal medicine, the rest of the folk cures might as well be homeopathy. Chinese medicine is also practiced in Taiwan, and while the system differs from the West, it's based on tradition. If you believe in evolution, then you should believe that in general only methodologies that have some effect would survive over time. That's the basis of traditional medicine at least, and just because it's not quantified and understood in the Western way does not mean it is all fake.
chrischen 7y ago
So why are hospitals making home-made masks or using surgical masks when tending to covid-19 patients? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22716618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22716618
- brigandish 7y ago
  Because, to repeat myself, there is evidence that surgical masks used by a trained (in the use of masks and in proper behaviour around the sick) clinicians in a clinical setting do have efficacy. These trained people in an entirely different setting than the ones your are advocating their use in by untrained people will also: - not reuse masks - remove masks correctly and at appropriate times - dispose of masks correctly - engage in several other related behaviours that will prevent transmission World of difference.