5 ms·

Young healthy people shouldn’t be doing this, the slots should go to the ill and elderly, people who are in immediate danger from catching the illness.

capableweb 7y ago
People will do what the system forces people to do. You don't want people who are in danger to starve? Let's change the system to one where we help those in need. The current way of living, in many parts of the world (especially the US), is that you have to eat others, otherwise they'll eat you. This is the system the leaders keep defending, and the people keep cheering the leaders on. So you get what you want. Otherwise, go out on the streets and show you're not happy with it. Getting people who are writing scrapers for groceries to stop is not realistically gonna change anything.
nsnick 7y ago
To add to this, if the sick can’t get grocery delivery, they will go to the grocery stores.
jbm 7y ago
38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1] Everyone can catch the illness, everyone can wind up in the hospital, and depending on the state of the local hospitals, everyone is in immediate danger. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/close-to-40percent-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-the-us-are-aged-20-to-54-report/ar-BB11r1LN https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/close-to-40percent-...
- nsnick 7y ago
  But not everyone can get grocery delivery, so who should have priority?
- gruez 7y ago
  >38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1] This is odd statistic to give, considering it's not normalized by how many 20-54 year olds are there. So I clicked through to the original study[1] and found a more helpful figure: people between the ages of 20-44 have a hospitalization rate of 14.3%-20.8%, and an ICU admission rate of 2.0%-4.2%. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w#T1_down https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- throwaway3563 7y ago
  All the more reason to dedicate the slots for the disproportionately-represented older cohort.
  - wbl 7y ago
    Or reorganize to have a central delivery service that goes to all the houses in an area.
- gizmo686 7y ago
  That 38% figure is not relevent in this context, because it does not control for the demographics of the population in general. 45% of admisions are over 65, despite the fact that >65 makes up only 16% of the total population [0]. Further, according the the underlying report, of the 22-44 year olds admitted to the hospital, only 2-4% went to the ICU. The 75–84 bracket had 11%–31% admitance to the ICU. Of the deaths reported, 80% were over 65, while the other 20% was 20–64. Yes, this virus can kill anyone, but statiscally speeking, it is far more likely to kill you when you are old. If there is a limited supply of a protective messure, we should prioritize giving it to the far more vulnerable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - viklove 7y ago
    So you get to decide that risking death for a 70 year old is worse than risking permanent lung damage for a 30 year old?
  - licyeus 7y ago
    Agree with your point (that raw % of hospitalizations is misleading), but it's 2-4% of total positive cases, not 2-4% of those admitted to hospital.
- pc86 7y ago
  ...which means 62% are people 55 or older. I'm not sure you're proving your point as well as you think you are.
- HSO 7y ago
  you missed the "healthy" part. obese, diabetic, or cardiovascular condition means you're in a risk group, regardless of age. pretty sure the relatively high numbers cited in the us are partly a statistical fluke resulting from the way the sample was generated and partly due to higher rates of metabolic disease etc in the us compared to european or asian countries
sneak 7y ago
How not-young must one be to be legitimate in taking steps like this to avoid contracting this potentially fatal illness? I’m not yet 40. I have bought all of my food online and had it delivered for years now. Should I now begin exposing myself to the infection risks posed by going inside a grocery store? This may sound like snark but it’s not. I’m curious about the opinions of people who feel this way.
- spuz 7y ago
  Are you otherwise healthy? If so and if you find almost every food delivery slot taken then I would say yes, you should be doing your grocery shopping in person. It's not a huge burden to change your behaviours for other people's benefit especially if others also do the same.
  - mantap 7y ago
    And if the slot gets taken by a 20 year old what has been achieved? It's really down to governments to set up food delivery to affected groups. Altruism can't solve this problem.
    - spuz 7y ago
      I'm assuming that if I leave a slot available, there is a higher chance that someone who is sick or vulnerable will get the slot they need. Maybe you're suggesting that all the slots will be taken by 20 programmers who write bots. Even in that case, I can't see how my behaviour doesn't help the chances of that vulnerable person.
  - sneak 7y ago
    > It's not a huge burden to change your behaviours for other people's benefit especially if others also do the same. Potentially exposing oneself to a lethal virus is indeed a huge burden, and I do not agree that anyone is obligated to put themselves at risk.
    - spuz 7y ago
zxcvbn4038 7y ago
At this point everyone is in immediate danger of catching the virus, the ill and the elderly are just the ones less likely to recover from it. Probably the fairest way to do it is everyone gets in the queue instead of competing for spots, and limits are enforced to help spread demand.
Lucadg 7y ago
In Bulgaria between 8.30 and 10.30 shops are open for the elderly only. I'm not sure how effective this is but it strikes me as a good low tech move.
- threentaway 7y ago
  Some stores in Washington state (US) have elected to implement this, but it is not a legal requirement.
  - bpye 7y ago
    Happening in Canada as well, Save-On-Foods, Shoppers Drug Mart, Real Canadian Superstore and London Drugs at least - there may be others. London Drugs have also added an hour for healthcare workers and first responders at the end of the day.
- philliphaydon 7y ago
  Singapore does 7am till 8am, you need a senior citizen card, or be taking care of a senior citizen / person with disability to get in during this time. I think this is really great. When I go it's often crowded because people are still panicking.
  - Brakenshire 7y ago
    I’m not sure it’s a great idea because older people are far more likely to catch the disease, so you’re crowding the most susceptible, most at-risk demographic together. But I’m not sure there’s an alternative. It’s better if the hours are longer.
    - philliphaydon 7y ago
      Alot of super markets in Singapore are 24/7, a lot of the elderly wear masks, and for the most part people adhere to social distancing. The spread is minimal in Singapore.
bpye 7y ago
Whilst I may be young and relatively healthy (mild asthma) I'm still sticking to delivery. Near to me there are few grocery stores and if I wanted to go to a larger store I would typically take transit. I've tried to minimise my impact by only ordering every 2 weeks as opposed to every week, but it seems like this is how I can have the lowest impact given the situation.
copperx 7y ago
I agree; however, a plea to young people on HN is much less effective than having it as a company policy. They could reserve some/most/all spots for seniors.
michaelmrose 7y ago
Not giving you it to young people prevents them from giving it to vulnerable people further down the road. If 1 person infects 10 prevention of one transmission can save a 1000. Everyone ought to do curbside pick up or delivery for everything.
paddlesteamer 7y ago
Actually, it depends on where do you live. In OP's country elder people have been given rights to call social services and even police to get their shopping done. Other than that, in Turkey family relations are similar to Italy: the old people and younglings usually live together. So there is always a risk to get the disease in the market and then pass it to an elder back at home. OP's doing the right thing keeping his head down and order online.

capableweb 7y ago

People will do what the system forces people to do. You don't want people who are in danger to starve? Let's change the system to one where we help those in need. The current way of living, in many parts of the world (especially the US), is that you have to eat others, otherwise they'll eat you. This is the system the leaders keep defending, and the people keep cheering the leaders on. So you get what you want. Otherwise, go out on the streets and show you're not happy with it. Getting people who are writing scrapers for groceries to stop is not realistically gonna change anything.

nsnick 7y ago

To add to this, if the sick can’t get grocery delivery, they will go to the grocery stores.

jbm 7y ago

38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1] Everyone can catch the illness, everyone can wind up in the hospital, and depending on the state of the local hospitals, everyone is in immediate danger. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/close-to-40percent-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-the-us-are-aged-20-to-54-report/ar-BB11r1LN https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/close-to-40percent-...

nsnick 7y ago
But not everyone can get grocery delivery, so who should have priority?
gruez 7y ago
>38% of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 are between 20 and 54. [1] This is odd statistic to give, considering it's not normalized by how many 20-54 year olds are there. So I clicked through to the original study[1] and found a more helpful figure: people between the ages of 20-44 have a hospitalization rate of 14.3%-20.8%, and an ICU admission rate of 2.0%-4.2%. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w#T1_down https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
throwaway3563 7y ago
All the more reason to dedicate the slots for the disproportionately-represented older cohort.
- wbl 7y ago
  Or reorganize to have a central delivery service that goes to all the houses in an area.
gizmo686 7y ago
That 38% figure is not relevent in this context, because it does not control for the demographics of the population in general. 45% of admisions are over 65, despite the fact that >65 makes up only 16% of the total population [0]. Further, according the the underlying report, of the 22-44 year olds admitted to the hospital, only 2-4% went to the ICU. The 75–84 bracket had 11%–31% admitance to the ICU. Of the deaths reported, 80% were over 65, while the other 20% was 20–64. Yes, this virus can kill anyone, but statiscally speeking, it is far more likely to kill you when you are old. If there is a limited supply of a protective messure, we should prioritize giving it to the far more vulnerable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- viklove 7y ago
  So you get to decide that risking death for a 70 year old is worse than risking permanent lung damage for a 30 year old?
- licyeus 7y ago
  Agree with your point (that raw % of hospitalizations is misleading), but it's 2-4% of total positive cases, not 2-4% of those admitted to hospital.
pc86 7y ago
...which means 62% are people 55 or older. I'm not sure you're proving your point as well as you think you are.
HSO 7y ago
you missed the "healthy" part. obese, diabetic, or cardiovascular condition means you're in a risk group, regardless of age. pretty sure the relatively high numbers cited in the us are partly a statistical fluke resulting from the way the sample was generated and partly due to higher rates of metabolic disease etc in the us compared to european or asian countries

sneak 7y ago

How not-young must one be to be legitimate in taking steps like this to avoid contracting this potentially fatal illness? I’m not yet 40. I have bought all of my food online and had it delivered for years now. Should I now begin exposing myself to the infection risks posed by going inside a grocery store? This may sound like snark but it’s not. I’m curious about the opinions of people who feel this way.

spuz 7y ago
Are you otherwise healthy? If so and if you find almost every food delivery slot taken then I would say yes, you should be doing your grocery shopping in person. It's not a huge burden to change your behaviours for other people's benefit especially if others also do the same.
- mantap 7y ago
  And if the slot gets taken by a 20 year old what has been achieved? It's really down to governments to set up food delivery to affected groups. Altruism can't solve this problem.
  - spuz 7y ago
    I'm assuming that if I leave a slot available, there is a higher chance that someone who is sick or vulnerable will get the slot they need. Maybe you're suggesting that all the slots will be taken by 20 programmers who write bots. Even in that case, I can't see how my behaviour doesn't help the chances of that vulnerable person.
- sneak 7y ago
  > It's not a huge burden to change your behaviours for other people's benefit especially if others also do the same. Potentially exposing oneself to a lethal virus is indeed a huge burden, and I do not agree that anyone is obligated to put themselves at risk.
  - spuz 7y ago

zxcvbn4038 7y ago

At this point everyone is in immediate danger of catching the virus, the ill and the elderly are just the ones less likely to recover from it. Probably the fairest way to do it is everyone gets in the queue instead of competing for spots, and limits are enforced to help spread demand.

Lucadg 7y ago

In Bulgaria between 8.30 and 10.30 shops are open for the elderly only. I'm not sure how effective this is but it strikes me as a good low tech move.

threentaway 7y ago
Some stores in Washington state (US) have elected to implement this, but it is not a legal requirement.
- bpye 7y ago
  Happening in Canada as well, Save-On-Foods, Shoppers Drug Mart, Real Canadian Superstore and London Drugs at least - there may be others. London Drugs have also added an hour for healthcare workers and first responders at the end of the day.
philliphaydon 7y ago
Singapore does 7am till 8am, you need a senior citizen card, or be taking care of a senior citizen / person with disability to get in during this time. I think this is really great. When I go it's often crowded because people are still panicking.
- Brakenshire 7y ago
  I’m not sure it’s a great idea because older people are far more likely to catch the disease, so you’re crowding the most susceptible, most at-risk demographic together. But I’m not sure there’s an alternative. It’s better if the hours are longer.
  - philliphaydon 7y ago
    Alot of super markets in Singapore are 24/7, a lot of the elderly wear masks, and for the most part people adhere to social distancing. The spread is minimal in Singapore.

bpye 7y ago

Whilst I may be young and relatively healthy (mild asthma) I'm still sticking to delivery. Near to me there are few grocery stores and if I wanted to go to a larger store I would typically take transit. I've tried to minimise my impact by only ordering every 2 weeks as opposed to every week, but it seems like this is how I can have the lowest impact given the situation.

copperx 7y ago

I agree; however, a plea to young people on HN is much less effective than having it as a company policy. They could reserve some/most/all spots for seniors.

michaelmrose 7y ago

Not giving you it to young people prevents them from giving it to vulnerable people further down the road. If 1 person infects 10 prevention of one transmission can save a 1000. Everyone ought to do curbside pick up or delivery for everything.

paddlesteamer 7y ago

Actually, it depends on where do you live. In OP's country elder people have been given rights to call social services and even police to get their shopping done. Other than that, in Turkey family relations are similar to Italy: the old people and younglings usually live together. So there is always a risk to get the disease in the market and then pass it to an elder back at home. OP's doing the right thing keeping his head down and order online.