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The US has what is generally considered the worst COVID-19 response among developed nations.

by throwaway5752 7y ago

oh_sigh 7y ago
Generally considered among who? Epidemiologists? Public health officials? Anonymous commenters on message boards?
- res0nat0r 7y ago
  I'm going with "everyone" now that the USA is #1 at something as of today: The most diagnosed cases of any country in the world, even China.
something539953 7y ago
Italy and Spain are not developed countries?
- kube-system 7y ago
  The US is going to blow past Italy and Spain in a couple of days.
  - Tempest1981 7y ago
    The US passed Italy (and China) today. And Spain previously. Although only for cases, not deaths. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
    - yibg 7y ago
      Number of deaths are delayed I assume. We'll see in a week or 2 if it catches up to Italy and Spain.
    - adventured 7y ago
      Italy has a per capita figure six times higher than the US. Spain is five times higher. Switzerland is four to five times higher. France and Germany have per capita rates about twice as high (the French figure is much higher in reality, they're not testing anywhere near as well as Germany). Let me know when the US has six times the per capita cases of Italy, then we'll talk. Italy currently has a death figure roughly 40 times higher per capita than the US. If you scaled it to the US population, it'd be around 50,000 dead. Let me know when the US has a per capita death figure 40 times higher than Italy. Of course nobody wants to look at the disaster going on in the EU. The way the EU has entirely let Italy and Spain down. How Spain is having to beg NATO for supplies because their EU friends are leaving them to fend for themselves. The way China has helped Italy more than the EU. Some more things nobody wants to talk about: the extremely high mortality rates in Italy, Spain, France; the lack of testing in Britain; the lack of basic medical supplies across Western Europe, leaving doctors in Spain and Italy to work with bare hands and without masks; the hyper infection rates among healthcare workers in Western Europe due to poor practices and lack of medical gear; the shift to leaving patients over 60 to die because they can't help them any longer, producing the terrifying death rates in Italy and Spain. "Spanish army finds care home residents 'dead and abandoned'" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023 Bloomberg: "Spanish Doctors Are Forced to Choose Who to Let Die" http://archive.is/Caj7r http://archive.is/Caj7r "‘We are collapsing’: Virus pummels medics in Spain and Italy" https://apnews.com/7ec91dc45d8d7c2ea86b0a97446a303a https://apnews.com/7ec91dc45d8d7c2ea86b0a97446a303a "Israeli doctor in Italy: We no longer help those over 60. Dr. Gai Peleg told Israeli television that in northern Italy, the orders are not to allow those over 60 access to respiratory machines." https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856 https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-... Bloomberg: "Europe’s Desperate Doctors Are Shielded by Trash Bags" http://archive.is/IRwpy http://archive.is/IRwpy Foreign Policy: "The EU Is Abandoning Italy in Its Hour of Need" http://archive.is/LXzxB http://archive.is/LXzxB “Old people [in Spain] have been abandoned in an astonishing way,” said Carmen Flores, head of patient rights group Defensor del Paciente. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-emergency/two-more-weeks-of-lockdown-as-spains-coronavirus-crisis-worsens-idUSKBN21D0RH https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-...
    - kube-system 7y ago
      By "worst" I am assuming per-capita figures. Obviously the US has a larger population than Spain and Italy, so comparing the raw number of cases isn't a fair comparison. On a per capita basis, we're not quite up there with some of Europe yet, but we will be. But most of the US didn't really get their act together with testing until this week. We're a little delayed both in transmission and in testing, and the US is not showing any deviance from exponential growth at the moment.
malandrew 7y ago
On a per capita basis, the US is at 20% of where Italy is.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  Italy is also A. Doing far more testing B. Further along the pandemic curve Give it another week or two and you'll see how bad things are really going to be.
- malandrew 7y ago
  Great visualization and one is a population normalized graph: http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/ http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
- jbay808 7y ago
  That's a few more doubling periods away.
- vikramkr 7y ago
  So like a week or two behind. Exponential growth is fast and idk how well we're doing at stopping it
CraigJPerry 7y ago
I don’t think the US as a whole, NY seems to have its finger out. Testing really well too.
- _delirium 7y ago
  NY has done more widespread testing than most states, but lost a lot of time ramping up its hospital capacity (beds, staffing, and equipment). Cuomo issued an order to do that only on Feburary 26. I could imagine not wanting to preemptively take stronger measures like turning convention centers into makeshift hospitals, but not clear why they weren't at least increasing stocks of PPE and generally getting better prepared for a possible influx of cases.
  - vikramkr 7y ago
    The rate of infectivity here is also reported to be far higher than elsewhere with really fast doubling rates, and early on we had no idea how much it had already spread because of the underdiagnosis and lack of tests. I think Cuomo just had no idea it was actually that bad.
- heliodor 7y ago
  Good response now but slow to pull the trigger on the lockdown. People seem to have forgotten that already! Precious days were wasted before Cuomo finally called a lockdown.
  - halfmatthalfcat 7y ago
    Try winding down a city of 8 million in one day without instilling fear, panic, a run on groceries, etc. Taking three days to slowly get everyone working from home is sound especially when you're just starting to get a grip on the situation. I'm biased though, living in Queens.
  - throwaway32120 7y ago
    Yep. Just a week ago Cuomo was shut down the idea of shelter in place when de Blasio (who had been dragging his feet as well) was suggesting it[1]. This was a day after the Bay Area health officers announced a shelter in place order. He only relented when things really spun out of control. The fact that people like Cuomo are now being praised for the way they handled this suggests that we aren't going to learn the lessons we need to. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/politics/bill-de-blasio-andrew-cuomo-new-york-shelter-in-place-coronavirus-cnntv/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/politics/bill-de-blasio-andre...
lonelappde 7y ago
Even compared to China Communist Party who tried to suppress their own doctor's evidence of it and let it spread to the whole world And Italy, where 1 in 10K have already died?
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  China let it spread to the whole world? In some respects, China's initial response was poor. The government in Wuhan forced the doctor who was warning about the virus on social media to shut up, and it did not ban large public events quickly enough. In other respects, China's initial response was excellent. Immediately after the first suspicious cases of pneumonia were reported by local doctors in Wuhan, the Chinese CDC sent a team to Wuhan to investigate. China alerted the WHO just two days later. It then announced the discovery of a new coronavirus about a week after alerting the WHO. It published the genetic sequence of the virus two days after that. Two weeks later, it quarantined Wuhan, a city of over 10 million people. Two weeks may seem like a long time, but compare that to how long it's taken for governments in Western countries to take similarly drastic actions.
adventured 7y ago
Italy and Spain have had far worse responses. Italy's mortality rate is over 10% right now, Spain's is at 7.5% and France's is at 5.7%. These are atrocious outcomes. Several Western European nations are seeing far higher per capita case loads and death rates. Several prominent healthcare systems across Europe have proven wildly incompetent so far, including Spain, Italy and Britain (which is barely doing any testing). The famed French healthcare system is proving barely able to handle what's going on there, thus their very high mortality rate.

The US has what is generally considered the worst COVID-19 response among developed nations.

oh_sigh 7y ago

Generally considered among who? Epidemiologists? Public health officials? Anonymous commenters on message boards?

res0nat0r 7y ago
I'm going with "everyone" now that the USA is #1 at something as of today: The most diagnosed cases of any country in the world, even China.

something539953 7y ago

Italy and Spain are not developed countries?

kube-system 7y ago
The US is going to blow past Italy and Spain in a couple of days.
- Tempest1981 7y ago
  The US passed Italy (and China) today. And Spain previously. Although only for cases, not deaths. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
  - yibg 7y ago
    Number of deaths are delayed I assume. We'll see in a week or 2 if it catches up to Italy and Spain.
  - adventured 7y ago
    Italy has a per capita figure six times higher than the US. Spain is five times higher. Switzerland is four to five times higher. France and Germany have per capita rates about twice as high (the French figure is much higher in reality, they're not testing anywhere near as well as Germany). Let me know when the US has six times the per capita cases of Italy, then we'll talk. Italy currently has a death figure roughly 40 times higher per capita than the US. If you scaled it to the US population, it'd be around 50,000 dead. Let me know when the US has a per capita death figure 40 times higher than Italy. Of course nobody wants to look at the disaster going on in the EU. The way the EU has entirely let Italy and Spain down. How Spain is having to beg NATO for supplies because their EU friends are leaving them to fend for themselves. The way China has helped Italy more than the EU. Some more things nobody wants to talk about: the extremely high mortality rates in Italy, Spain, France; the lack of testing in Britain; the lack of basic medical supplies across Western Europe, leaving doctors in Spain and Italy to work with bare hands and without masks; the hyper infection rates among healthcare workers in Western Europe due to poor practices and lack of medical gear; the shift to leaving patients over 60 to die because they can't help them any longer, producing the terrifying death rates in Italy and Spain. "Spanish army finds care home residents 'dead and abandoned'" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023 Bloomberg: "Spanish Doctors Are Forced to Choose Who to Let Die" http://archive.is/Caj7r http://archive.is/Caj7r "‘We are collapsing’: Virus pummels medics in Spain and Italy" https://apnews.com/7ec91dc45d8d7c2ea86b0a97446a303a https://apnews.com/7ec91dc45d8d7c2ea86b0a97446a303a "Israeli doctor in Italy: We no longer help those over 60. Dr. Gai Peleg told Israeli television that in northern Italy, the orders are not to allow those over 60 access to respiratory machines." https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856 https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-... Bloomberg: "Europe’s Desperate Doctors Are Shielded by Trash Bags" http://archive.is/IRwpy http://archive.is/IRwpy Foreign Policy: "The EU Is Abandoning Italy in Its Hour of Need" http://archive.is/LXzxB http://archive.is/LXzxB “Old people [in Spain] have been abandoned in an astonishing way,” said Carmen Flores, head of patient rights group Defensor del Paciente. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-emergency/two-more-weeks-of-lockdown-as-spains-coronavirus-crisis-worsens-idUSKBN21D0RH https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-...
  - kube-system 7y ago
    By "worst" I am assuming per-capita figures. Obviously the US has a larger population than Spain and Italy, so comparing the raw number of cases isn't a fair comparison. On a per capita basis, we're not quite up there with some of Europe yet, but we will be. But most of the US didn't really get their act together with testing until this week. We're a little delayed both in transmission and in testing, and the US is not showing any deviance from exponential growth at the moment.

malandrew 7y ago

On a per capita basis, the US is at 20% of where Italy is.

fzeroracer 7y ago
Italy is also A. Doing far more testing B. Further along the pandemic curve Give it another week or two and you'll see how bad things are really going to be.
malandrew 7y ago
Great visualization and one is a population normalized graph: http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/ http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
jbay808 7y ago
That's a few more doubling periods away.
vikramkr 7y ago
So like a week or two behind. Exponential growth is fast and idk how well we're doing at stopping it

CraigJPerry 7y ago

I don’t think the US as a whole, NY seems to have its finger out. Testing really well too.

_delirium 7y ago
NY has done more widespread testing than most states, but lost a lot of time ramping up its hospital capacity (beds, staffing, and equipment). Cuomo issued an order to do that only on Feburary 26. I could imagine not wanting to preemptively take stronger measures like turning convention centers into makeshift hospitals, but not clear why they weren't at least increasing stocks of PPE and generally getting better prepared for a possible influx of cases.
- vikramkr 7y ago
  The rate of infectivity here is also reported to be far higher than elsewhere with really fast doubling rates, and early on we had no idea how much it had already spread because of the underdiagnosis and lack of tests. I think Cuomo just had no idea it was actually that bad.
heliodor 7y ago
Good response now but slow to pull the trigger on the lockdown. People seem to have forgotten that already! Precious days were wasted before Cuomo finally called a lockdown.
- halfmatthalfcat 7y ago
  Try winding down a city of 8 million in one day without instilling fear, panic, a run on groceries, etc. Taking three days to slowly get everyone working from home is sound especially when you're just starting to get a grip on the situation. I'm biased though, living in Queens.
- throwaway32120 7y ago
  Yep. Just a week ago Cuomo was shut down the idea of shelter in place when de Blasio (who had been dragging his feet as well) was suggesting it[1]. This was a day after the Bay Area health officers announced a shelter in place order. He only relented when things really spun out of control. The fact that people like Cuomo are now being praised for the way they handled this suggests that we aren't going to learn the lessons we need to. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/politics/bill-de-blasio-andrew-cuomo-new-york-shelter-in-place-coronavirus-cnntv/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/politics/bill-de-blasio-andre...

lonelappde 7y ago

Even compared to China Communist Party who tried to suppress their own doctor's evidence of it and let it spread to the whole world And Italy, where 1 in 10K have already died?

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
China let it spread to the whole world? In some respects, China's initial response was poor. The government in Wuhan forced the doctor who was warning about the virus on social media to shut up, and it did not ban large public events quickly enough. In other respects, China's initial response was excellent. Immediately after the first suspicious cases of pneumonia were reported by local doctors in Wuhan, the Chinese CDC sent a team to Wuhan to investigate. China alerted the WHO just two days later. It then announced the discovery of a new coronavirus about a week after alerting the WHO. It published the genetic sequence of the virus two days after that. Two weeks later, it quarantined Wuhan, a city of over 10 million people. Two weeks may seem like a long time, but compare that to how long it's taken for governments in Western countries to take similarly drastic actions.

adventured 7y ago

Italy and Spain have had far worse responses. Italy's mortality rate is over 10% right now, Spain's is at 7.5% and France's is at 5.7%. These are atrocious outcomes. Several Western European nations are seeing far higher per capita case loads and death rates. Several prominent healthcare systems across Europe have proven wildly incompetent so far, including Spain, Italy and Britain (which is barely doing any testing). The famed French healthcare system is proving barely able to handle what's going on there, thus their very high mortality rate.