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Top VPNs recording users, potentially leaking data when visiting their websites
- pedroguitarm4n 7y agoVPNs: Hey, we really respect your "absolute" privacy and anonymity and security winkwink* also VPNs: WE MUST KNOW EVEYRTHING YOU'RE DOING ONLINE!!!11!!!
- teslademigod1 7y agoQuick summary: Top VPNs don't actually care about your privacy. Shoooockkeer of the century
- better0uts1d3 7y agoYou mean giving third parties control of your privacy, security and anonymity was a bad idea all along?
- fyrefoxboy12 7y agoI'm sure they really care about your "privacy" -- as long as they can track you and up their profits so, in total: a regular business
- teslademigod1 7y agoAny third party will behave this way. This is the behavior of businesses that need to increase their effectiveness. of course, if you want "absolute" privacy and security, NONE of these VPN companies will fit the bill
- fyrefoxboy12 7y agoi don't know if that's particularly practical to build up your own VPN if that's your implication?
- teslademigod1 7y agoactually much easier than you'd think https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/how-to-build-your-own-vpn-if-youre-rightfully-wary-of-commercial-options/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/how-to-build-your-ow...
- fyrefoxboy12 7y agoThanks for the link. let me quickly check it out
- sccxy 7y agoEven easier setup: https://github.com/pivpn/pivpn https://github.com/pivpn/pivpn Wireguard is faster & easier to set up for mobile devices.
- teslademigod1 7y agoawesome resource
- nabnob 7y agoThanks, this is super helpful. Do you think it's possible to have real privacy/security for someone who faces state suppression a la Edward Snowden?
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago> Any third party will behave this way. This is the behavior of businesses that need to increase their effectiveness. It's really not the "third parties" to blame here for the most part. You can make a viable business from selling a VPN service in exchange for money with a contractual requirement that you be respecting privacy in particular ways, so that you can actually get in trouble for not doing it. But when Shady VPN Corp. starts offering the "same" service for "free" under a different contract because they're logging everything and selling your data, and then all the customers go over there because who doesn't like a free lunch, whose fault is that really?
- teslademigod1 7y agoI hope that, by now, with all the research coming out about that, that people would have stopped using free VPNs by now. it's more than likely a big hustle to do something shady
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago> it's more than likely a big hustle to do something shady Of course it is. But it's also the case that doing the opposite of whatever idiots do isn't necessarily smart. It's like the thing where people say don't use Google because "if you're not the customer you're the product" but then the same people are pushing Microsoft products that not only charge you money but then still do the same thing as Google or worse. If you're not paying them then you can guess how they're making money, but just because you are paying them doesn't mean they're not doing the same thing. You still have to read the fine print.
- gumby 7y agoQuick summary — top vpn companies use the same trackers as most other when you visit the provider’s website to sign up or download. Says nothing about the actual operation of the VPN itself. I block the website trackers anyway, so clearly I don’t approve of them. But TBF this has nothing to do with your experience as a customer.
- teslademigod1 7y agoOn second thought: I understand that VPNs are jsut companies and they need to do proper marketing, testing, UX/UI improvements, etc. but there's always such in-house/first party trackers like Piwik that i'm pretty sure these "good" VPNs in the list at the bottom with only 0/1 trackers are using
- jasonv 7y agoAcknowledging the article lists popular VPNs with 0 trackers, as well.
- teslademigod1 7y agotrue - i only recognize windscribe (1) and mullvad though
- rciorba 7y agoProtonVPN is one of the most popular ones out there, and is also listed with 0 trackers.
- fyrefoxboy12 7y agoon the other hand, i'm surprised that PIA and Tunnelbear have so few trackers
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- dperfect 7y agoMaybe it's just me, but it feels like this is trying to scare people into thinking that the VPNs mentioned are doing this tracking on the sites you visit while using their VPN, when it's really only about the VPN's own website (which people usually visit only when they sign up). It doesn't explicitly say the tracking is happening while using the VPNs in question, but I would bet a large portion of readers assume that's what they're saying. It really doesn't bother me if a VPN company uses trackers and other tools to optimize their own website, other than the fact that some third parties may have good reason to believe that a visitor uses a VPN if the person visited the VPN's website. That says nothing (or very little) about how private you are when actually using the VPN.
- prophesi 7y agoYeah, I think the title should be changed. It's very misleading. The VPN industry is all about manufacturing rumors about your opponents.
- fyrefoxboy12 7y agoI don't know what you can see, but the full title shows that it's about websites and their info section shows that they only analyzed websites. "In order to analyze these websites..." i get what you mean, but i think that's a bit more about reading comprehension than what they've been doing.
- dperfect 7y agoYes, you and I both recognize that they're only talking about the VPN's own websites, but I'd bet good money that a majority of less-technical readers (not HN readers) won't understand that distinction. It feels like the author knows that, and deliberately failed to point out the fact that the tracking in question doesn't affect a person's privacy while using the VPNs. Case in point: > Remember, these trackers are made so that they can track your online behavior, and follow you wherever you go on the internet. Having even 1 of them on your website really defeats any argument for ultimate privacy and anonymity. Tell me that isn't trying to scare the reader into thinking the trackers can follow your activity while using the VPNs.
- Sofakingsecure 7y agoServices offering privacy in 2020? I guess it’s your own fault if you still get hooked on that.
- leepopsT 7y agosnap. what about express? i don't see it on the list?
- PopeyeTheSailor 7y agotheir entire business model depends on privacy and security. it's like playing with matches
- diablo1 7y agoWhy the outrage? It's sometimes worth replaying a session to gauge your prospect's behavior and figuring out how to convert them. Also, for people who use a VPN, I would imagine the majority of them would be using an AD-Blocker / Tracking blocker in their browser to stop any attempt by the VPN company to spy on them.
- teslademigod1 7y agoThat's likely true. I don't know if I'd call it "outrage" as just...useful information. Like a live test of a theoretical concept. Privacy over marketing. At some point, they have to improve their offerings and user experience. But I wonder if they went for the quickest option out of the box (there are lots of shady third parties there) or if they considered doing something a bit safer based on their needs. I know lots of marketers that want A LOT of tools and get A LOT of data -- and not really sure what to do with that data
- klingonopera 7y ago> "2. AirVPN – 0" Shoutout to AirVPN, run by actual hacktivists: https://airvpn.org/mission/ https://airvpn.org/mission/
- fyrefoxboy12 7y agothat's great. i didn't even notice that. automatic upvote
- klingonopera 7y agoThey appear to be a group with a mission financing themselves with VPN services, as opposed to most other VPN providers, who're just there to make a buck, and wouldn't give two shits to the circumstances as to why a VPN would even be necessary. Hell, I'm pretty sure, the guys at AirVPN are aware that working for their goals actually reduces their potential customer base, but the mission is more important, it just needs to be financed, and it appears to be going well. Profit-oriented VPNs would probably (secretly) support legislation inhibiting digital freedoms to make more money. Also, you can probably guess who's more likely comply with authorities in legal issues... Find yourself a good VPN provider, worth staying loyal to, and save yourself from future headaches. When I first signed up on AirVPN, they were charging 54€ per annum, now, last I checked half a year ago, they have three-year plans for 45€. I wish them continued success!
- TA0x0 7y agoThey unfortunately do not support WireGuard. Mullvad is probably the best way to go at the moment.
- dehrmann 7y agoWith how much of the internet is over TLS, and the fact the you still have to trust someone, be they a VPN operator or ISP, aside from georestrictions and piracy, VPN services are mostly snake oil. It shouldn't be surprising that they're employing marketing tools to sell more of it. As for them even selling privacy, while I don't trust major ISPs, at least there are more eyes on them. You generally have no idea who's operating a VPN, so even that's dubious.
- 101404 7y agoNot really. VPN is great to be able to connect from a different country that has fewer of less severe restrictions on free speech, for example.
- metreo 7y agoWhy doesn't everyone just use Tor?
- klingonopera 7y agoBandwidth and latency being more important than perfect privacy in some cases.
- intopieces 7y agoI thought Tor had exit nodes set up by the government. Is this not true? Serious question.
- eyegor 7y agoYes, of course they do. Most governments probably run some tor nodes. The privacy gamble is that you only have privacy if the entrance node and exit nodes are controlled by different operators.
- babypuncher 7y agoHave you ever used Tor? It's incredibly slow.
- eyegor 7y agoBecause it's horrendously inefficient to bounce your traffic all over the place. Most people won't trade a 10x slowdown for abstract privacy gains.
- amoshi 7y agoBecause Cloudflare and Google Recaptcha will lock you out.
- blaser-waffle 7y agoToo slow for daily use, and not really worth it if you're just trying to keep your ISP or other low-effort groups from annihilating your privacy.