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I once worked somewhere that did blameless technical postmortems very well. Whenever something broke, we kept asking questions until we had uncovered what went

I once worked somewhere that did blameless technical postmortems very well. Whenever something broke, we kept asking questions until we had uncovered what went wrong, and we constantly reminded each other that our failings were in the process, not the people. It worked great, and we ended up with much more robust systems than most other places I'd worked. Sadly, they didn't apply the same ideals to social faux pas. We had an older gentleman working for us who, on hearing a younger member of the team propose an idea, said: "okay, I'll play the straight man: why won't this cause [...]" In the poor guy's generation, "straight man" was a stand-up comedy term for the person who acts deadpan and surprised while their partner makes with the comedy. But after explaining his actions and the expectations/assumptions behind them, he was reprimanded, ostracized in the office, and left before long. Even though I liked working on the technical systems at that job, I felt isolated and uncomfortable speaking with my peers after that. I've never been good with people, and what if I made a mistake? That sort of terror is what non-technical folks feel when you ask them to start taking on new responsibilities, and it's why these blameless systems are so important.

the_af 7y ago
"Straight man" still has that meaning today, just like "deadpan" and "foil". It's not a generational thing. It was probably a contextual thing; my guess is that nobody expected terms of comedy and theater at the workplace. But don't blame it on youth...
- whatshisface 7y ago
  >my guess is that nobody expected terms of comedy and theater at the workplace That's a bit of a stretch, metaphors are the grease for the engine of the English language. In fact I've even heard this specific phrase many times before, recently. It's a metaphor in active use. The company was probably looking for a reason to get rid of him.
  - the_af 7y ago
    In fact I argued it's a metaphor in active use! But I also guessed metaphors taken out of context are likely to be misinterpreted. I know plenty of native English speakers who don't know what "straight man" means.
    - whatshisface 7y ago
      But metaphors are always taken out of context. Nobody says it's time to bite the bullet with a bullet in their hand. Referring to a situation that is not presently happening in order to explain one that is is the definition of a metaphor.
      - the_af 7y ago
        That's not what I meant by context. "In context" doesn't mean "the literal meaning" and it's easy to see that "straight man" wasn't taken literally by the person who took offense, either. Metaphors must be used in context, they just aren't meant to be taken literally; a metaphor about comedy/theater is always in context when watching (or acting) in one. You don't have to explain it. Likewise, if I talk about a "foil" while cooking in the kitchen, I'm likely to be interpreted one way; if I talk about the same while discussing comedy, it's likely to be taken differently. Context matters.
        whatshisface 7y ago
        >a metaphor about comedy/theater is always in context when watching (or acting) in one Calling someone in theater a Straight Man isn't a metaphor, that would be an example of a literal usage. A metaphor is when you refer to a distant situation or thing to explain a present one. If you demand that metaphors only be deployed in their "context" you are saying you can only compare situations to themselves.
        the_af 7y ago
        Disagreed. I don't know if "metaphor" is the word, but in comedy/theater obviously it's not the literal usage either, it's a figure of speech (unless the man is physically straight). That our understanding of this is different is another example that the term wasn't as pervasive or well understood as you initially thought. Yes, metaphors and figures of speech must be deployed in context, like all of human language. There's a certain kind of humor based on saying things out of context -- I don't recommend you use it at the workplace (or risk being fired). I'm sure you've experienced telling a pun out of context and being misunderstood. The same principle applies. Human communication is about context. The modern workplace requires more precise consideration of context.
im3w1l 7y ago
> I've never been good with people, and what if I made a mistake? This climate of fear made me absolutely miserable. To the point that I have vowed never to be an employee again. I'm not spending 8h a day in an environment where the thought police is breathing down my neck. I'd rather beg on the streets.
- leggomylibro 7y ago
  Yeah, I ended up leaving to go hiking for like 3 months. I don't want to go back either.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
I often hear about this stuff but I have never seen it myself. Do people really ostracize others for saying a sentence they don’t like? I can see it if somebody constantly says stupid or offensive things but not for a few mistakes (are they even mistakes?).
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  Yes this isn't like using the "N in the wood pile" quote which is obviously offensive
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  I can't vouch for ostracism specifically, but we just had someone at our company add a Slack bot to correct anyone who says the word "guys", and let me tell you I did not feel like it would be appropriate to complain.
  - frank086 7y ago
    With everyone remote HR has sadly discovered a sudden love of policing slack. I saw another engineer get hit for talking about triggering a job since "using triggering improperly downplays the trauma of survivors". Not sure what that means other than it is time to set the LinkedIn status to looking.
    - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
      Meh, I don't think it's something you should look to change jobs based on. People get weird when they're stressed, and the whole world's pretty stressed right now.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      "I saw another engineer get hit for talking about triggering a job since "using triggering improperly downplays the trauma of survivors". " This is nuts. Where is this? Silicon Valley?
- viklove 7y ago
C1sc0cat 7y ago
Comedy duos still have a straight man today its literally the suggested completion in google. Sounds like some one had done a diversity course and missed the point, to be kind. There are other less charitable conclusions that could be drawn.
jiveturkey 7y ago
> But after explaining his actions and the expectations/assumptions behind them, he was reprimanded, ostracized in the office sounds like a horrible place to work anyway, blameless postmortems aside.

the_af 7y ago

"Straight man" still has that meaning today, just like "deadpan" and "foil". It's not a generational thing. It was probably a contextual thing; my guess is that nobody expected terms of comedy and theater at the workplace. But don't blame it on youth...

whatshisface 7y ago
>my guess is that nobody expected terms of comedy and theater at the workplace That's a bit of a stretch, metaphors are the grease for the engine of the English language. In fact I've even heard this specific phrase many times before, recently. It's a metaphor in active use. The company was probably looking for a reason to get rid of him.
- the_af 7y ago
  In fact I argued it's a metaphor in active use! But I also guessed metaphors taken out of context are likely to be misinterpreted. I know plenty of native English speakers who don't know what "straight man" means.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    But metaphors are always taken out of context. Nobody says it's time to bite the bullet with a bullet in their hand. Referring to a situation that is not presently happening in order to explain one that is is the definition of a metaphor.
    - the_af 7y ago
      That's not what I meant by context. "In context" doesn't mean "the literal meaning" and it's easy to see that "straight man" wasn't taken literally by the person who took offense, either. Metaphors must be used in context, they just aren't meant to be taken literally; a metaphor about comedy/theater is always in context when watching (or acting) in one. You don't have to explain it. Likewise, if I talk about a "foil" while cooking in the kitchen, I'm likely to be interpreted one way; if I talk about the same while discussing comedy, it's likely to be taken differently. Context matters.
      - whatshisface 7y ago
        >a metaphor about comedy/theater is always in context when watching (or acting) in one Calling someone in theater a Straight Man isn't a metaphor, that would be an example of a literal usage. A metaphor is when you refer to a distant situation or thing to explain a present one. If you demand that metaphors only be deployed in their "context" you are saying you can only compare situations to themselves.
        the_af 7y ago
        Disagreed. I don't know if "metaphor" is the word, but in comedy/theater obviously it's not the literal usage either, it's a figure of speech (unless the man is physically straight). That our understanding of this is different is another example that the term wasn't as pervasive or well understood as you initially thought. Yes, metaphors and figures of speech must be deployed in context, like all of human language. There's a certain kind of humor based on saying things out of context -- I don't recommend you use it at the workplace (or risk being fired). I'm sure you've experienced telling a pun out of context and being misunderstood. The same principle applies. Human communication is about context. The modern workplace requires more precise consideration of context.

im3w1l 7y ago

> I've never been good with people, and what if I made a mistake? This climate of fear made me absolutely miserable. To the point that I have vowed never to be an employee again. I'm not spending 8h a day in an environment where the thought police is breathing down my neck. I'd rather beg on the streets.

leggomylibro 7y ago
Yeah, I ended up leaving to go hiking for like 3 months. I don't want to go back either.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

I often hear about this stuff but I have never seen it myself. Do people really ostracize others for saying a sentence they don’t like? I can see it if somebody constantly says stupid or offensive things but not for a few mistakes (are they even mistakes?).

C1sc0cat 7y ago
Yes this isn't like using the "N in the wood pile" quote which is obviously offensive
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
I can't vouch for ostracism specifically, but we just had someone at our company add a Slack bot to correct anyone who says the word "guys", and let me tell you I did not feel like it would be appropriate to complain.
- frank086 7y ago
  With everyone remote HR has sadly discovered a sudden love of policing slack. I saw another engineer get hit for talking about triggering a job since "using triggering improperly downplays the trauma of survivors". Not sure what that means other than it is time to set the LinkedIn status to looking.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    Meh, I don't think it's something you should look to change jobs based on. People get weird when they're stressed, and the whole world's pretty stressed right now.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    "I saw another engineer get hit for talking about triggering a job since "using triggering improperly downplays the trauma of survivors". " This is nuts. Where is this? Silicon Valley?
viklove 7y ago

C1sc0cat 7y ago

Comedy duos still have a straight man today its literally the suggested completion in google. Sounds like some one had done a diversity course and missed the point, to be kind. There are other less charitable conclusions that could be drawn.

jiveturkey 7y ago

> But after explaining his actions and the expectations/assumptions behind them, he was reprimanded, ostracized in the office sounds like a horrible place to work anyway, blameless postmortems aside.