8 ms·

Yes, but this wasn't a library parking lot. This was a roadway, at night, and he appears to have been going the speed limit. And the victim was lying down on th

Yes, but this wasn't a library parking lot. This was a roadway, at night, and he appears to have been going the speed limit. And the victim was lying down on the roadway in dark clothes. And there was an oncoming car with high beams on according to the court findings. So you think that he should spend 1.5 years in a Russian prison for that? A sentence that may very well ruin him psychologically for the rest of his life? And/or leave him with TB and/or Covid-19? (and here I note that American prisons are not much better, if at all).

blondin 7y ago
> So you think that he should spend 1.5 years... hold on... no one ever said anything like that. not a single comment here. let's keep calm. the whole situation still seems unreal to myself...
- rat9988 7y ago
  Except the comment that the commented you quoted is answering to?
  - blondin 7y ago
    see the three dots i had in there? that's me being lazy and not quoting the whole hyperbole.
    - jnbiche 7y ago
      But your criticism was about my take on the judgement, not the conditions that are common in Russian prisons (and no, it's not hyperbole, I have an acquaintance who worked with MSF on TB in Russian prisons: https://www.msf.org/tb-prisons-containing-catastrophe https://www.msf.org/tb-prisons-containing-catastrophe).
      - blondin 7y ago
        okay, sorry, just felt based on many comments here that people are being emotional. if you read below, someone who can actually read the court documents said the victim was not lying around, but actually helping the other person. just too much unknown to form our own personal judgement here. that's all i was trying to say.
caf 7y ago
It is worth remembering that the speed limit is not an "it is always safe to drive this speed here" advisory. In particular if your vision is obstructed (perhaps by very heavy rain, fog, or an oncoming car with high beams) then you may need to slow down considerably.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  Agreed, I agree that it can be unsafe. However, if you're going the speed limit, it reduces the chances significantly that you were doing something grossly negligent or unsafe that works warrant an unusually harsh sentence for what was an accident. Normally, such sentences are only given in cases of major negligence, like intoxication, or going at a very high rate of speed.
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  sure, but high beams is sort of really temporary and often sort of sudden. I mean if someone is going the speed limit what does slowing down considerably look like in that instance?
  - bryanrasmussen 7y ago
    for some reason that got downvoted, but I thought my reasoning was clear and of course reasonable. Poor vision caused by fog is different than poor vision caused by high beams, you should slow down considerably in thick fog, but coming over a hill, high beams in your eyes you probably should probably just ease up a bit.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  If there's an oncoming car with high beams on a straight empty road I'm more inclined to speed up so I pass them by faster.
  - vbezhenar 7y ago
    If you're blinded, you should slow down or even stop until you'll be able to see again. Driving blinded is irresponsible.
sdegutis 7y ago
I said the judgment is reasonable but reserve my judgment on the sentence. I’m saying people should drive safer. That’s all. A good portion of my reasoning comes from my daily dealings with my kids. This case bears many strong resemblances to arguments they come to me with. Edit to clarify: when my kids come to me with an argument because one was careless and hurt another, the defense is usually that they were acting as reasonably cautious as could be expected. My justification in grounding them (after getting the facts and eyewitness testimony) is that I would have acted more cautiously than they did given the circumstances, and would not have caused the same injury, so that their caution wasn’t really as cautious as should reasonably be expected.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Do your children drive? I’m not sure what you mean by saying that these arguments bear a resemblance.
- yodon 7y ago
  If this judging happens as much as you imply here and in your other comments in this thread, you should probably look at the parenting dynamic you have created and look for ways to change it. It sounds like are encouraging your kids into a dysfunctional competition for your approval and by extension love. You should be teaching them to work out their own differences, not teaching them to appeal everything to you. The former is a great life skill, the later is not.
  - sdegutis 7y ago
    We try to teach them to resolve problems on their own. But when one of them is negligent to the point of hurting another, then we have to administer justice. Usually writing a sentence a few dozen times to instill the idea for a need of being more careful. Sometimes a grounding, if our judgment is met with a stubborn defense claiming pure innocence despite the evidence, and belligerent accusations of us being unjust judges (ie. “contempt of court”).
petre 7y ago
Unfortunately, pepole go to prison in Russia for lesser things. I've met a guy who has spent 8 months shared between a jail, a Russian prison and a penal colony (the worst of the three) because he was dumb enough to say he had a bomb in his souvenir bag when an aiport guard kicked it and asked what the (obvious) item was. He wrote a book about the aforementioned experience. So be extra careful what you say or do if you happen to travel to Russia. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41023722-the-million-dollar-hoax https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41023722-the-million-dol...
- HatchedLake721 7y ago
  That happened around 2006? It’s 2 years after Beslan school siege, when terrorists took hostage 1100 children and 334 died. It’s a stupid thing to say, especially when country is still mourning and on high terrorist alert. Try making a joke at a US airport in 2003 that you have a bomb. I’m pretty sure you’d have weapons drawn on you in a second and ending up worse than spending 8 months in a jail.
  - petre 7y ago
    Yes, it is very stupid. At least read the book's description, it's a bit more complicated than that, a bit surreal. Maybe he just snapped under stress.
MiroF 7y ago
I wish we were as sympathetic to drug dealers and theft as many on HN want us to be towards a programmer who ran someone over in their motorcycle.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  I am. You can check my prior comments on our prison system. I think both the US and Russia should dramatically rethink their approach to non violent crime. Both countries have ridiculously high incarceration rates. I may be wrong, but I believe most people on HN feel the same way. Also, to be clear, are you sympathetic to the incarceration of drug dealers and thieves but not sympathetic to the incarceration of someone who accidentally killed someone in an auto-pedestrian accident?
  - MiroF 7y ago
    > Also, to be clear, are you sympathetic to the incarceration of drug dealers and thieves but not sympathetic to the incarceration of someone who accidentally killed someone in an auto-pedestrian accident? Didn't see this because you added it in an edit. I think we should generally avoid prison time as much as possible, for all of these cases. I just get frustrated when I often seem to see people defending people with similar social status to themselves, but having apparently no sympathy for people of different social circumstances. Clearly the consensus on HN is not entirely the same way, as some of the other replies to my comment show. I am sorry for having assumed intentions that you don't have, though, more trying to comment on a general trend I've observed.
- overeater 7y ago
  Why? Those people chose to do something bad. The programmer was not doing anything intentionally wrong.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    He drove his motorcycle into two people, one of whom was standing and helping their friend who was intoxicated on the ground.

blondin 7y ago

> So you think that he should spend 1.5 years... hold on... no one ever said anything like that. not a single comment here. let's keep calm. the whole situation still seems unreal to myself...

rat9988 7y ago
Except the comment that the commented you quoted is answering to?
- blondin 7y ago
  see the three dots i had in there? that's me being lazy and not quoting the whole hyperbole.
  - jnbiche 7y ago
    But your criticism was about my take on the judgement, not the conditions that are common in Russian prisons (and no, it's not hyperbole, I have an acquaintance who worked with MSF on TB in Russian prisons: https://www.msf.org/tb-prisons-containing-catastrophe https://www.msf.org/tb-prisons-containing-catastrophe).
    - blondin 7y ago
      okay, sorry, just felt based on many comments here that people are being emotional. if you read below, someone who can actually read the court documents said the victim was not lying around, but actually helping the other person. just too much unknown to form our own personal judgement here. that's all i was trying to say.

caf 7y ago

It is worth remembering that the speed limit is not an "it is always safe to drive this speed here" advisory. In particular if your vision is obstructed (perhaps by very heavy rain, fog, or an oncoming car with high beams) then you may need to slow down considerably.

jnbiche 7y ago
Agreed, I agree that it can be unsafe. However, if you're going the speed limit, it reduces the chances significantly that you were doing something grossly negligent or unsafe that works warrant an unusually harsh sentence for what was an accident. Normally, such sentences are only given in cases of major negligence, like intoxication, or going at a very high rate of speed.
bryanrasmussen 7y ago
sure, but high beams is sort of really temporary and often sort of sudden. I mean if someone is going the speed limit what does slowing down considerably look like in that instance?
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  for some reason that got downvoted, but I thought my reasoning was clear and of course reasonable. Poor vision caused by fog is different than poor vision caused by high beams, you should slow down considerably in thick fog, but coming over a hill, high beams in your eyes you probably should probably just ease up a bit.
Aeolun 7y ago
If there's an oncoming car with high beams on a straight empty road I'm more inclined to speed up so I pass them by faster.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  If you're blinded, you should slow down or even stop until you'll be able to see again. Driving blinded is irresponsible.

sdegutis 7y ago

I said the judgment is reasonable but reserve my judgment on the sentence. I’m saying people should drive safer. That’s all. A good portion of my reasoning comes from my daily dealings with my kids. This case bears many strong resemblances to arguments they come to me with. Edit to clarify: when my kids come to me with an argument because one was careless and hurt another, the defense is usually that they were acting as reasonably cautious as could be expected. My justification in grounding them (after getting the facts and eyewitness testimony) is that I would have acted more cautiously than they did given the circumstances, and would not have caused the same injury, so that their caution wasn’t really as cautious as should reasonably be expected.

saagarjha 7y ago
Do your children drive? I’m not sure what you mean by saying that these arguments bear a resemblance.
yodon 7y ago
If this judging happens as much as you imply here and in your other comments in this thread, you should probably look at the parenting dynamic you have created and look for ways to change it. It sounds like are encouraging your kids into a dysfunctional competition for your approval and by extension love. You should be teaching them to work out their own differences, not teaching them to appeal everything to you. The former is a great life skill, the later is not.
- sdegutis 7y ago
  We try to teach them to resolve problems on their own. But when one of them is negligent to the point of hurting another, then we have to administer justice. Usually writing a sentence a few dozen times to instill the idea for a need of being more careful. Sometimes a grounding, if our judgment is met with a stubborn defense claiming pure innocence despite the evidence, and belligerent accusations of us being unjust judges (ie. “contempt of court”).

petre 7y ago

Unfortunately, pepole go to prison in Russia for lesser things. I've met a guy who has spent 8 months shared between a jail, a Russian prison and a penal colony (the worst of the three) because he was dumb enough to say he had a bomb in his souvenir bag when an aiport guard kicked it and asked what the (obvious) item was. He wrote a book about the aforementioned experience. So be extra careful what you say or do if you happen to travel to Russia. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41023722-the-million-dollar-hoax https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41023722-the-million-dol...

HatchedLake721 7y ago
That happened around 2006? It’s 2 years after Beslan school siege, when terrorists took hostage 1100 children and 334 died. It’s a stupid thing to say, especially when country is still mourning and on high terrorist alert. Try making a joke at a US airport in 2003 that you have a bomb. I’m pretty sure you’d have weapons drawn on you in a second and ending up worse than spending 8 months in a jail.
- petre 7y ago
  Yes, it is very stupid. At least read the book's description, it's a bit more complicated than that, a bit surreal. Maybe he just snapped under stress.

MiroF 7y ago

I wish we were as sympathetic to drug dealers and theft as many on HN want us to be towards a programmer who ran someone over in their motorcycle.

jnbiche 7y ago
I am. You can check my prior comments on our prison system. I think both the US and Russia should dramatically rethink their approach to non violent crime. Both countries have ridiculously high incarceration rates. I may be wrong, but I believe most people on HN feel the same way. Also, to be clear, are you sympathetic to the incarceration of drug dealers and thieves but not sympathetic to the incarceration of someone who accidentally killed someone in an auto-pedestrian accident?
- MiroF 7y ago
  > Also, to be clear, are you sympathetic to the incarceration of drug dealers and thieves but not sympathetic to the incarceration of someone who accidentally killed someone in an auto-pedestrian accident? Didn't see this because you added it in an edit. I think we should generally avoid prison time as much as possible, for all of these cases. I just get frustrated when I often seem to see people defending people with similar social status to themselves, but having apparently no sympathy for people of different social circumstances. Clearly the consensus on HN is not entirely the same way, as some of the other replies to my comment show. I am sorry for having assumed intentions that you don't have, though, more trying to comment on a general trend I've observed.
overeater 7y ago
Why? Those people chose to do something bad. The programmer was not doing anything intentionally wrong.
- MiroF 7y ago
  He drove his motorcycle into two people, one of whom was standing and helping their friend who was intoxicated on the ground.