7 ms·

Don't forget the mask shaming that was perpetuated in the US.

dboreham 7y ago
I suspect it will be shown that disposable $0.50 N95 masks are largely effective and that the US population was deliberately misled about their effectiveness because the country has no way to provide such masks not only to the general public but to healthcare workers.
- wideasleep1 7y ago
  Agree, but it's not so cut and dry. https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-t... edit: speaking of cut and dry..men should be clean-shaven to ensure snug fit.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    Interesting preface. In the UK we were told that masks were simply not effective, there was no need for them, they would not hinder the spread of infection. Similarly with closing schools: "the gov has this special plan that uses herd immunity, you idiot, so we don't need to close schools" [actually it's always "Boris has a plan", I can't understand why -- if it's the PM's plan then it's probably entirely ignorant of all the facts ...]. Anyway, yeah, the argument wasn't that >"[we] disagree on whether surgical masks alone help prevent the wearer from becoming infected" [from your link] it was "masks of any kind are ineffective". And we bloody well know that just the effectiveness of masks in preventing spread from infected patients makes them worthwhile. It's simply maths that 1 infected who spreads to 1 more is more than 1 infected spreading to zero more.
    - daveslash 7y ago
      I wonder if there was a lie of omission by the health professionals: "N95 Masks won't help the spread [because the general public will touch their face without washing their hands after removing the mask, thus masking the mask a moot point]" ~ the brackets representing the "lie of omission" part. I honestly don't know, just wondering out loud...
      - wideasleep1 7y ago
        That, and I think disposable nitrile type gloves are way underplayed as well. They're easy to remove inside-out, limiting exposure when disposing. I remove one to get into the car (clean hand on handle), get inside, hold empty glove in other gloved hand, and pull second glove over first glove to contain it. Probably saw this on ER or some show years ago.
      - ironmagma 7y ago
        If you're going to be that fatalist, you may as well say "there is no preventing COVID-19" because everyone will touch their face without washing their hands. No, assume people can follow instructions and disseminate the truth, not a revised version of the truth, or you risk credibility as clearly has been damaged on the CDC's part. There are dire consequences when a public health authority has no authority anymore due to lying.
ironmagma 7y ago
You’ll still get looks for wearing a mask. It’s ridiculous.
- lnsru 7y ago
  Often I am the only one wearing a mask in the whole grocery store. Munich, 1300 infections. One infected for couple city blocks.
- jonas21 7y ago
  Have you considered that people are looking at you not because they want to shame you, but because they're trying to determine if you're sick and they should be extra careful around you, e.g. don't touch anything you've touched, etc? If the guidance so far has been to only wear a mask if you're sick, it seems reasonable to assume that someone wearing a mask is more likely to be sick than average.
  - ironmagma 7y ago
    Most of these people are passersby on the street who would have no opportunity to touch something I've touched. I heard from someone who wore a mask recently who was flat-out told, "You're overreacting." It's not just caution, there is some kind of social insistence that the masks are not necessary and even to be discouraged, which I even sense in myself when I'm out and about without a mask and see others wearing them. It's natural for whatever reason, but we should be cognizant that it's just better than if people don't have protection enough to fight that tendency.
    - electriclove 7y ago
      I think it has to do with their (incorrect) assessment of the situation. Rather than reevaluate their assessment (as that would increase their anxiety), they rationalize your assessment as overreaction.
      - ianai 7y ago
        Yet another example of the bullying culture of the US.

I suspect it will be shown that disposable $0.50 N95 masks are largely effective and that the US population was deliberately misled about their effectiveness because the country has no way to provide such masks not only to the general public but to healthcare workers.

wideasleep1 7y ago
Agree, but it's not so cut and dry. https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-t... edit: speaking of cut and dry..men should be clean-shaven to ensure snug fit.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Interesting preface. In the UK we were told that masks were simply not effective, there was no need for them, they would not hinder the spread of infection. Similarly with closing schools: "the gov has this special plan that uses herd immunity, you idiot, so we don't need to close schools" [actually it's always "Boris has a plan", I can't understand why -- if it's the PM's plan then it's probably entirely ignorant of all the facts ...]. Anyway, yeah, the argument wasn't that >"[we] disagree on whether surgical masks alone help prevent the wearer from becoming infected" [from your link] it was "masks of any kind are ineffective". And we bloody well know that just the effectiveness of masks in preventing spread from infected patients makes them worthwhile. It's simply maths that 1 infected who spreads to 1 more is more than 1 infected spreading to zero more.
  - daveslash 7y ago
    I wonder if there was a lie of omission by the health professionals: "N95 Masks won't help the spread [because the general public will touch their face without washing their hands after removing the mask, thus masking the mask a moot point]" ~ the brackets representing the "lie of omission" part. I honestly don't know, just wondering out loud...
    - wideasleep1 7y ago
      That, and I think disposable nitrile type gloves are way underplayed as well. They're easy to remove inside-out, limiting exposure when disposing. I remove one to get into the car (clean hand on handle), get inside, hold empty glove in other gloved hand, and pull second glove over first glove to contain it. Probably saw this on ER or some show years ago.
    - ironmagma 7y ago
      If you're going to be that fatalist, you may as well say "there is no preventing COVID-19" because everyone will touch their face without washing their hands. No, assume people can follow instructions and disseminate the truth, not a revised version of the truth, or you risk credibility as clearly has been damaged on the CDC's part. There are dire consequences when a public health authority has no authority anymore due to lying.

ironmagma 7y ago

You’ll still get looks for wearing a mask. It’s ridiculous.

lnsru 7y ago
Often I am the only one wearing a mask in the whole grocery store. Munich, 1300 infections. One infected for couple city blocks.
jonas21 7y ago
Have you considered that people are looking at you not because they want to shame you, but because they're trying to determine if you're sick and they should be extra careful around you, e.g. don't touch anything you've touched, etc? If the guidance so far has been to only wear a mask if you're sick, it seems reasonable to assume that someone wearing a mask is more likely to be sick than average.
- ironmagma 7y ago
  Most of these people are passersby on the street who would have no opportunity to touch something I've touched. I heard from someone who wore a mask recently who was flat-out told, "You're overreacting." It's not just caution, there is some kind of social insistence that the masks are not necessary and even to be discouraged, which I even sense in myself when I'm out and about without a mask and see others wearing them. It's natural for whatever reason, but we should be cognizant that it's just better than if people don't have protection enough to fight that tendency.
  - electriclove 7y ago
    I think it has to do with their (incorrect) assessment of the situation. Rather than reevaluate their assessment (as that would increase their anxiety), they rationalize your assessment as overreaction.
    - ianai 7y ago
      Yet another example of the bullying culture of the US.