4 ms·

> We need legislation to ban rents for COVID-19-affected businesses. This only works if the government mandates full moratorium on both rents and mortgages. Th

> We need legislation to ban rents for COVID-19-affected businesses. This only works if the government mandates full moratorium on both rents and mortgages. That also means that no interest on mortgage is accrued during this time. Otherwise, landlords are screwed in the same way as tenants - they can't pay mortgage and the property may turn into foreclosure. More so, frequently landlords are screwed even more - because it may be hard to get rid of non-paying tenant especially during this time. So tenant may get sort of temporary free pass by just not paying rent. Bottom line - Landlords are not the right target of this rage. Appeal to Governments, not to Landlords.

Scoundreller 7y ago
But who should the government punish? Everyone equally? The richest X%? The poorest X%? Particular industr[y,ies]? If everyone says “not us, somebody else!” there will be no redistribution.
- taleodor 7y ago
  To me, under circumstances universal income may be the most sensible solution. Which would also largely avoid questions like this one (btw everyone still going to take a hit - no doubt about that, but at least it could be negotiated between parties then). Governments still need to figure out if they have enough resources though - it's a lot of work if one is willing to take it. Unfortunately, what I see instead here in Canada is heavy subsidies for large banks who are just passing it as more debt to everyone else. May do even more harm long-term.
  - robocat 7y ago
    Do you own a business? Why do you think universal income solves the problem of an entertainment company that is legally shutdown, has zero income, and can’t pay it’s bills? At it’s core, aren’t you just suggesting we become communists (for a while?). Disclaimer: I am from what might be called a liberal socialist capitalist country (I might call myself a capitalist hippy).
    - 6510 7y ago
      The goal is to get organized. Whatever the solution might be I'm sure people will call it communism and they might not be to far off either. Wait! You just gave me a hilarious idea! If people have to stay home for months we might as well pay them to enroll in some kind of online course. You know, re-education, only without the camp.
- snoopsbooks 7y ago
  The government should punish itself. Issue more debt and backstop unemployment. Otherwise, it will just propagate.
- hellisothers 7y ago
  The parent comment is proposing a system where nobody is punished, everything is deferred. Not all landlords are fat cats in a mansion, if you remove the flow of cash to only some people, those people will be crushed if they depend on that flow to send it further upstream.
  - nybble41 7y ago
    Deferring payment without interest is punishment. Goods in the future are worth less than the same goods in the present.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      And where's someone unemployed going to get 3 month's of rent if they only work in 0 or 1 of the next 3 months?
      - marcofatica 7y ago
        That's why you're supposed to have savings, but it seems these days people prefer to spend frivolously
        Scoundreller 7y ago
        Landlords and tenants alike it seems.
        6510 7y ago
        But we've increased rent to rule out savings.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    I mean, by definition, landlords own more homes than they need. Worst case scenario, the asset doesn't disappear, it just gets put to auction for someone that can afford it to buy it. Possibly the government could restrict that auction to non-property owners to help sort out the first-sentence problem.
- rad_gruchalski 7y ago
  Is ‘punish’ even the right term? We’re all equally screwed one way or another. Everywhere in the world.
swat535 7y ago
You fail to realise that in a lot of cases the landlord is also the one who gave himself the mortgage. Quite a lot of commercial real-estate is owned by financial institutions and when it isn't the trust fund shareholder is also on the board of directors of the bank.
- appleiigs 7y ago
  You fail to realise that in a lot of the cases the landlord is also the tenant. Anyone who owns a house or condo is a landlord... cutting the landlords income for a month is a big problem.
  - swat535 7y ago
    It is to fundamentally misunderstand the notion of what a landlord is when you consider someone who is simultaneously a tenant. You cannot charge yourself to rent space you own. They may occupy a space in the building but that does not make them a tenant. A tenant is someone who rents precisely because they do not own the space

Scoundreller 7y ago

But who should the government punish? Everyone equally? The richest X%? The poorest X%? Particular industr[y,ies]? If everyone says “not us, somebody else!” there will be no redistribution.

taleodor 7y ago
To me, under circumstances universal income may be the most sensible solution. Which would also largely avoid questions like this one (btw everyone still going to take a hit - no doubt about that, but at least it could be negotiated between parties then). Governments still need to figure out if they have enough resources though - it's a lot of work if one is willing to take it. Unfortunately, what I see instead here in Canada is heavy subsidies for large banks who are just passing it as more debt to everyone else. May do even more harm long-term.
- robocat 7y ago
  Do you own a business? Why do you think universal income solves the problem of an entertainment company that is legally shutdown, has zero income, and can’t pay it’s bills? At it’s core, aren’t you just suggesting we become communists (for a while?). Disclaimer: I am from what might be called a liberal socialist capitalist country (I might call myself a capitalist hippy).
  - 6510 7y ago
    The goal is to get organized. Whatever the solution might be I'm sure people will call it communism and they might not be to far off either. Wait! You just gave me a hilarious idea! If people have to stay home for months we might as well pay them to enroll in some kind of online course. You know, re-education, only without the camp.
snoopsbooks 7y ago
The government should punish itself. Issue more debt and backstop unemployment. Otherwise, it will just propagate.
hellisothers 7y ago
The parent comment is proposing a system where nobody is punished, everything is deferred. Not all landlords are fat cats in a mansion, if you remove the flow of cash to only some people, those people will be crushed if they depend on that flow to send it further upstream.
- nybble41 7y ago
  Deferring payment without interest is punishment. Goods in the future are worth less than the same goods in the present.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    And where's someone unemployed going to get 3 month's of rent if they only work in 0 or 1 of the next 3 months?
    - marcofatica 7y ago
      That's why you're supposed to have savings, but it seems these days people prefer to spend frivolously
      - Scoundreller 7y ago
        Landlords and tenants alike it seems.
      - 6510 7y ago
        But we've increased rent to rule out savings.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  I mean, by definition, landlords own more homes than they need. Worst case scenario, the asset doesn't disappear, it just gets put to auction for someone that can afford it to buy it. Possibly the government could restrict that auction to non-property owners to help sort out the first-sentence problem.
rad_gruchalski 7y ago
Is ‘punish’ even the right term? We’re all equally screwed one way or another. Everywhere in the world.

swat535 7y ago

You fail to realise that in a lot of cases the landlord is also the one who gave himself the mortgage. Quite a lot of commercial real-estate is owned by financial institutions and when it isn't the trust fund shareholder is also on the board of directors of the bank.

appleiigs 7y ago
You fail to realise that in a lot of the cases the landlord is also the tenant. Anyone who owns a house or condo is a landlord... cutting the landlords income for a month is a big problem.
- swat535 7y ago
  It is to fundamentally misunderstand the notion of what a landlord is when you consider someone who is simultaneously a tenant. You cannot charge yourself to rent space you own. They may occupy a space in the building but that does not make them a tenant. A tenant is someone who rents precisely because they do not own the space