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Are you seriously blaming the formation of Pakistan for Modi's anti-Muslim policies three generations later?

legolas2412 7y ago
You are using it to retroactively justify creation of a theocratic state. And yes, creation of that theocratic state, the violence of partition, and the terrorism caused by that theocratic state is the reason most Hindus don't like Pakistan and have an inherent distrust of Muslims. Btw, my understanding of causality is not agreement of the riots and the violence.
- throwaway123x2 7y ago
  Pakistan was perceived as a secular state by its founders, even if that's not how it panned out. The riots and violence in India today is directly caused by the current government's policies. I know that before Modi, even my religious but western-educated Pakistani friends would point to India and say we should be like them. Not so any more. Something has changed in India in the last decade - blaming an event from three generations ago does Indians and their intelligence a disservice. It implies that they are not in control of their own destiny and are instead held hostage by a three-generation old event.
  - legolas2412 7y ago
    > Pakistan was perceived as a secular state by its founders, even if that's not how it panned out. Good story you tell yourselves. Start a country based on religion, and then act surprised that it turned religious. This is your second prime minister "I do not agree that religion is a private affair of the individual nor do I agree that in an Islamic state every citizen has identical rights, no matter what his caste, creed or faith be ... — Governor-General Khawaja Nazimuddin, 1948–49, [33]" > I know that before Modi, even my religious but western-educated Pakistani friends would point to India and say we should be like them. Not so any more. I agree that india's going down a dark path and Pakistan should aim for better. Btw, India is still better than Pakistan for rights of its citizens. > Something has changed in India in the last decade - blaming an event from three generations ago does Indians and their intelligence a disservice Saying that they are well meaning and fooled by modi also does the same disservice. There is distrust of Muslims, even Indian ones. Why would there not be? They demanded a partition decades ago, and still hold on to communal Sharia laws. Such historical events are not and should not be easily forgotten, do we forget the holocaust and not criticize white nationalism? Add to the fact that Pakistan has constantly delved in terrorism. You said something changed in last decade, maybe because Pakistan committed the Bombay attack in 2008?
  - silentsea90 7y ago
    re: Creation of Pakistan - You can't create a nation created to serve a religion's interests and expect it to be secular. That's just dumb. > blaming an event from three generations ago does Indians and their intelligence a disservice. It implies that they are not in control of their own destiny and are instead held hostage by a three-generation old event. Great point. I have mixed feelings about this statement. We've had 4 wars with Pakistan, countless terrorist attacks, and Kashmir as a never ending problem for both nations. While that should ideally only route Indian ire towards Pakistan as a nation - the problem is that it also somehow festers mistrust towards Muslims in the country. The can of worms is somehow never really closed. The 3 generation old event continues to affect our lives. It also doesn't help that Muslim society is fairly insular and conservative. They are seen with suspicion as being sympathetic to Pakistan. Example : Reports of celebration of Pakistan's victory over India in cricket matches (which is a very very sensitive issue if you are Indian). This isn't an attempt to blame Muslims in India, but it does contribute to a disconnect between the non Muslim and Muslim populations in India. Muslims are somehow seen as outsiders due to the historical animosity - invasion, conversions, creation of Pakistan etc. Some of the other minorities like Christians do not face such discrimination because they're seen as just being regular Indians. I agree with you that it is downright stupid. BJP does not make it any easier to bring these communities closer either. Ultimately, it is intelligence v/s decades of animosity, emotions, propaganda, actions etc. I personally think the younger generation (millennials and younger) see through the charade and am optimistic about the future.

You are using it to retroactively justify creation of a theocratic state. And yes, creation of that theocratic state, the violence of partition, and the terrorism caused by that theocratic state is the reason most Hindus don't like Pakistan and have an inherent distrust of Muslims. Btw, my understanding of causality is not agreement of the riots and the violence.

throwaway123x2 7y ago
Pakistan was perceived as a secular state by its founders, even if that's not how it panned out. The riots and violence in India today is directly caused by the current government's policies. I know that before Modi, even my religious but western-educated Pakistani friends would point to India and say we should be like them. Not so any more. Something has changed in India in the last decade - blaming an event from three generations ago does Indians and their intelligence a disservice. It implies that they are not in control of their own destiny and are instead held hostage by a three-generation old event.
- legolas2412 7y ago
  > Pakistan was perceived as a secular state by its founders, even if that's not how it panned out. Good story you tell yourselves. Start a country based on religion, and then act surprised that it turned religious. This is your second prime minister "I do not agree that religion is a private affair of the individual nor do I agree that in an Islamic state every citizen has identical rights, no matter what his caste, creed or faith be ... — Governor-General Khawaja Nazimuddin, 1948–49, [33]" > I know that before Modi, even my religious but western-educated Pakistani friends would point to India and say we should be like them. Not so any more. I agree that india's going down a dark path and Pakistan should aim for better. Btw, India is still better than Pakistan for rights of its citizens. > Something has changed in India in the last decade - blaming an event from three generations ago does Indians and their intelligence a disservice Saying that they are well meaning and fooled by modi also does the same disservice. There is distrust of Muslims, even Indian ones. Why would there not be? They demanded a partition decades ago, and still hold on to communal Sharia laws. Such historical events are not and should not be easily forgotten, do we forget the holocaust and not criticize white nationalism? Add to the fact that Pakistan has constantly delved in terrorism. You said something changed in last decade, maybe because Pakistan committed the Bombay attack in 2008?
- silentsea90 7y ago
  re: Creation of Pakistan - You can't create a nation created to serve a religion's interests and expect it to be secular. That's just dumb. > blaming an event from three generations ago does Indians and their intelligence a disservice. It implies that they are not in control of their own destiny and are instead held hostage by a three-generation old event. Great point. I have mixed feelings about this statement. We've had 4 wars with Pakistan, countless terrorist attacks, and Kashmir as a never ending problem for both nations. While that should ideally only route Indian ire towards Pakistan as a nation - the problem is that it also somehow festers mistrust towards Muslims in the country. The can of worms is somehow never really closed. The 3 generation old event continues to affect our lives. It also doesn't help that Muslim society is fairly insular and conservative. They are seen with suspicion as being sympathetic to Pakistan. Example : Reports of celebration of Pakistan's victory over India in cricket matches (which is a very very sensitive issue if you are Indian). This isn't an attempt to blame Muslims in India, but it does contribute to a disconnect between the non Muslim and Muslim populations in India. Muslims are somehow seen as outsiders due to the historical animosity - invasion, conversions, creation of Pakistan etc. Some of the other minorities like Christians do not face such discrimination because they're seen as just being regular Indians. I agree with you that it is downright stupid. BJP does not make it any easier to bring these communities closer either. Ultimately, it is intelligence v/s decades of animosity, emotions, propaganda, actions etc. I personally think the younger generation (millennials and younger) see through the charade and am optimistic about the future.