4 ms·

If you broke India down, and with it the Hindu vs Muslim farce, there would be no reason for antagonism with Pakistan.

redisman 7y ago
Wouldn't you just get a proxy buffer state like Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria? Doesn't sound like an improvement to the status quo.
- throwaway123x2 7y ago
  None of those states make sense because they were built by colonialists drawing lines on a map without regard for native concerns. If Indians themselves sat down to divide India along actual ethno-cultural-linguistic lines we'd end up with better results. I'm not saying it's likely or even possible... just that if it were to happen, they might themselves be happier and more prosperous. I don't know what that would look like because I don't know India that well, but I do know that the guys at work from Tamil Nadu are very different from the guys from Northern India. It's not a Texas vs California difference, it's a "we don't even have the same mother tongue" difference.
  - HNTA2020 7y ago
    >it's a "we don't even have the same mother tongue" difference. What is wrong with that? Belgium and the Netherlands are successful peaceful multilingual countries.
nradov 7y ago
There are no clear internal dividing lines, everyone is mixed together. And there is plenty of antagonism between nation states even without significant religious differences; for example see the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq.
HNTA2020 7y ago
>If you broke India down, and with it the Hindu vs Muslim farce, there would be no reason for antagonism with Pakistan. Interesting. Your "solution" to the India-Pakistan conflict is to break up India. You also claim the antagonism is one-sided and coming from India. What makes you think Pakistan will respect the sovereignty of an independent Jammu and Ladakh? What makes you think the Pakistan and Gujarat border will be peaceful?
- throwaway123x2 7y ago
  You could apply the same argument to Pakistan - it's just less strong because Pakistan is smaller and by extension less diverse. I know the Pashtuns have lots of thoughts about having to straddle Pakistan and Afghanistan.
shripadk 7y ago
So you want India to be broken up because it will somehow end antagonism with Pakistan. I don't see how that will work at all. It will be much worse for Pakistan as these independent states would then all acquire nuclear capabilities to stop any sort of incursions from Pakistan and China. Instead of one nuclear India you'll have to deal with 36 (28 states + 8 union territories) Nuclear Mini-Indias. It will be a nightmare for both Pakistan and China to handle. And Pakistan has thrived on the Hindu-Muslim conflict in India. It'll be counterintuitive for Pakistan to dream of seeing India broken up. The antagonism with Pakistan is deep rooted in the psyche of Indians and is something that will never die out. No matter how you divide and subdivide the country. The reason for that is behavior of Pakistan itself. Indians don't forget atrocities done over them so easily. If Pakistan wants improved relations with India or a hypothetical 36 mini-Indias it needs to get its house in order. That will never happen because of its love for housing Islamic Terrorists (like Osama bin Laden and other outfits). And speaking of Pakistan, it has more to prove that it is a good neighbor than India does. We have good relations with all neighbours except Pakistan. The same can't be said for Pakistan. Pakistan's only ally in the region is China. The other two are Malaysia and Turkey. India is friendly with the World. We have no problems with anyone else. So no one will buy Pakistan's premise that it is somehow the afflicted one here. It is an immature nation that has ambitions way higher than what it is actually capable of. What makes it worse for Pakistan is its track record of keeping allies. It backstabbed USA and recently backstabbed Malaysia and Turkey too. Wasn't it Imran Khan who wanted to create a separate Islamic block from OIC with Malaysia and Turkey? Then he skipped the first ever meeting of the new Islamic block backstabbing both Malaysia and Turkey in the process. Mahathir lost his chair too because of his hatred for India. Now Malaysia is trying hard to placate India which had always been friendly with it. All because it believed Pakistan. Malaysia ended up losing a trustworthy friend like India and did not gain a friend in Pakistan. The damage it did to Malaysia-India relations is massive. It negatively impacted Malaysian economy. India never forgets insults and atrocities committed on it. Malaysia was literally begging India to restart palm oil imports after Mahathir stepped down and a new Government came into place. Building allies is a hard task that only mature countries are capable of. You can't behave like immature kids in the International community. People see through lies and deceit and will never work with you again. All these factors weigh against Pakistan unfortunately. Pakistan literally destroyed its own image. India was just a catalyst for it. Nothing more.
sbmthakur 7y ago
That's not exactly how it works. Pakistan claims Indian union territory of Jammu and Kashmir and it has been financing largely unpopular Khalistan movement which calls for a separate Sikh nation. Smaller nations will be much more vulnerable to incursions from Pakistan.

Wouldn't you just get a proxy buffer state like Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria? Doesn't sound like an improvement to the status quo.

throwaway123x2 7y ago
None of those states make sense because they were built by colonialists drawing lines on a map without regard for native concerns. If Indians themselves sat down to divide India along actual ethno-cultural-linguistic lines we'd end up with better results. I'm not saying it's likely or even possible... just that if it were to happen, they might themselves be happier and more prosperous. I don't know what that would look like because I don't know India that well, but I do know that the guys at work from Tamil Nadu are very different from the guys from Northern India. It's not a Texas vs California difference, it's a "we don't even have the same mother tongue" difference.
- HNTA2020 7y ago
  >it's a "we don't even have the same mother tongue" difference. What is wrong with that? Belgium and the Netherlands are successful peaceful multilingual countries.

nradov 7y ago

There are no clear internal dividing lines, everyone is mixed together. And there is plenty of antagonism between nation states even without significant religious differences; for example see the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq.

HNTA2020 7y ago

>If you broke India down, and with it the Hindu vs Muslim farce, there would be no reason for antagonism with Pakistan. Interesting. Your "solution" to the India-Pakistan conflict is to break up India. You also claim the antagonism is one-sided and coming from India. What makes you think Pakistan will respect the sovereignty of an independent Jammu and Ladakh? What makes you think the Pakistan and Gujarat border will be peaceful?

throwaway123x2 7y ago
You could apply the same argument to Pakistan - it's just less strong because Pakistan is smaller and by extension less diverse. I know the Pashtuns have lots of thoughts about having to straddle Pakistan and Afghanistan.

shripadk 7y ago

So you want India to be broken up because it will somehow end antagonism with Pakistan. I don't see how that will work at all. It will be much worse for Pakistan as these independent states would then all acquire nuclear capabilities to stop any sort of incursions from Pakistan and China. Instead of one nuclear India you'll have to deal with 36 (28 states + 8 union territories) Nuclear Mini-Indias. It will be a nightmare for both Pakistan and China to handle. And Pakistan has thrived on the Hindu-Muslim conflict in India. It'll be counterintuitive for Pakistan to dream of seeing India broken up. The antagonism with Pakistan is deep rooted in the psyche of Indians and is something that will never die out. No matter how you divide and subdivide the country. The reason for that is behavior of Pakistan itself. Indians don't forget atrocities done over them so easily. If Pakistan wants improved relations with India or a hypothetical 36 mini-Indias it needs to get its house in order. That will never happen because of its love for housing Islamic Terrorists (like Osama bin Laden and other outfits). And speaking of Pakistan, it has more to prove that it is a good neighbor than India does. We have good relations with all neighbours except Pakistan. The same can't be said for Pakistan. Pakistan's only ally in the region is China. The other two are Malaysia and Turkey. India is friendly with the World. We have no problems with anyone else. So no one will buy Pakistan's premise that it is somehow the afflicted one here. It is an immature nation that has ambitions way higher than what it is actually capable of. What makes it worse for Pakistan is its track record of keeping allies. It backstabbed USA and recently backstabbed Malaysia and Turkey too. Wasn't it Imran Khan who wanted to create a separate Islamic block from OIC with Malaysia and Turkey? Then he skipped the first ever meeting of the new Islamic block backstabbing both Malaysia and Turkey in the process. Mahathir lost his chair too because of his hatred for India. Now Malaysia is trying hard to placate India which had always been friendly with it. All because it believed Pakistan. Malaysia ended up losing a trustworthy friend like India and did not gain a friend in Pakistan. The damage it did to Malaysia-India relations is massive. It negatively impacted Malaysian economy. India never forgets insults and atrocities committed on it. Malaysia was literally begging India to restart palm oil imports after Mahathir stepped down and a new Government came into place. Building allies is a hard task that only mature countries are capable of. You can't behave like immature kids in the International community. People see through lies and deceit and will never work with you again. All these factors weigh against Pakistan unfortunately. Pakistan literally destroyed its own image. India was just a catalyst for it. Nothing more.

sbmthakur 7y ago

That's not exactly how it works. Pakistan claims Indian union territory of Jammu and Kashmir and it has been financing largely unpopular Khalistan movement which calls for a separate Sikh nation. Smaller nations will be much more vulnerable to incursions from Pakistan.