7 ms·

Here in Australia, one of the major supermarket chains (Coles) made a statement about this. They said their biggest week of the year is the Christmas week. They

by cletus 7y ago

Here in Australia, one of the major supermarket chains (Coles) made a statement about this. They said their biggest week of the year is the Christmas week. They spend 6 months preparing for this. Each of the last 3 weeks has essentially been a Christmas shopping week. That's the scale of the problem. We have enough food and supplies. We have the distribution to get it to stores. We have the capability to sell it in store. The only scarcity we have is because of the hoarders. That hoarding and resulting scarcity is creating more hoarders. It's textbook illusion of scarcity.

Spooky23 7y ago
Great point — also this season is the nadir of retailing. Everyone is broke from Christmas until March/April and companies shit their lines down to start making new product.
- ineedasername 7y ago
  >shit their lines down I'm not sure if that was meant to be a deliberate pun or just a fortuitous typo, but it fits here.
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    No it doesn't
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    Definitely a typo. My apologies.
ineedasername 7y ago
The secondary hoarders-- those who hoard because others have hoarded-- are in some ways behaving rationally too: Try to buy your normal rate of toilet paper and find it gone; then you search and search; when you finally find some you don't know when you might do so again, so you need to buy extra. It doesn't seem like a problem that will be solved until, gradually, everyone has plenty and most stores are stocked. That seems to be how things abated in 1973, over a few months.
- colechristensen 7y ago
  The rational way to behave is to not live roll to roll, so to speak. A well stocked pantry won't have trouble in a scare because... well it will have stock. Few things suck so much time away as having to go out for X because you've run out. In other news I've got fourteen pounds of beans if anybody wants any.
  - lmm 7y ago
    > The rational way to behave is to not live roll to roll, so to speak. A well stocked pantry won't have trouble in a scare because... well it will have stock. Just-in-time manufacturing succeeded because supply chains became reliable enough that factories didn't need their own stockpiles. If you're out in the country and you have a big pantry then sure, stock up, but those of us living in the city may not have space. And even if you do have space, if everyone realises they have no stock and decides to buy up a month's supply, that has pretty much the same practical impact as hoarding.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      "Hoarding" is just a smear word on building an emergency buffer just-in-time. Or, JIT supply chains extend all the way to end-consumer, so let's not act surprised that a spike in demand due to perceived risk increase breaks everything up the chain. This should've been conpensated for in the chain.
      - maccard 7y ago
        no, "hoarding" in this sense isn't a smear word on a buffer, it's buying 4/5/6x your normal buffer, to the point that people who haven't hoarded are now starting to be left without. I have a 48sqm apartment with 2 adults and a dog. we only _just_ have enough space for 3 weeks worth of all supplies. we're now running low on the things that people started panic buying a month ago, because of hoarding, not because of buffering.
        7y ago
nl 7y ago
In Australia here too. Supermarkets have introduced limits on the number of toilet roll packets you can buy (which is sensible). However, last weekend I was at the supermarket when it opened, and I observed something I haven't seen noted elsewhere. Manufactures seem only to be shipping enormous packages of toilet paper (24 packs). This means people buy 1 packet of 24 rolls, because that is all that is available. These huge packets also take more shelf space, which results in more shortages. Some smaller, independent supermarkets have taken to re-packaging the rolls into smaller packets, which is a win/win for both the shop and the consumer. But the manufacturer behaviour is interesting and unfortunate.
- cletus 7y ago
  There's another side to this. I've seen footage of this on the news. People will buy their per customer limits, throw it into their cars and queue up again. Rinse and repeat. The footage I saw of this was toilet paper. Some people.
  - tehlike 7y ago
    Costco does similar limitz I wish they used member id as the limit, not the checkout Id...
- lmm 7y ago
  I think most people are happy to buy a 24 pack at the moment (and would probably buy multiples of smaller packs otherwise), and it's probably easier to distribute only 24-packs than a mix of sizes. I'm all for manufacturers prioritising throughput over convenience for the duration of the crisis.
  - nl 7y ago
    Except that means that less households get supply, which forces them into more extreme measures. People are happy to buy anything at the moment. Making sure each household can get supply seems like it should be a priority.
    - 7y ago
waste_monk 7y ago
We were lucky to have bought a 6-pack of triple-length rolls of TP right before the drought hit, but it's been a few weeks not and every time I've been to the shop the TP shelves have been bare. A checkout girl told me they restock overnight and every day it's gone within two hours of opening (although that was before they brought in the dedicated AM shopping hour for the seniors/disabled to get their supplies).
maxden 7y ago
I also think there are now a couple of new factors affecting it. With people staying at home, the demand of toilet paper has shifted to the home more. People might be limiting their trips to the shop and are bulk buying more. But I agree the hoarding is still creating a shortage of toilet paper (and pasta, meat etc). It will be good when people have enough and we see things stocked on the shelves like normal. Although with potential businesses closing or enforced self isolation, I can't see the shelves looking normal for a while. Been a run on bottle shops, Bunnings etc as well. It's been interesting to see what gets sold out, there is still plenty of canned tuna etc, but no lemon juice (but there is lime juice). Didn't realise people used lemon juice so much.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  > With people staying at home, the demand of toilet paper has shifted to the home more. This. TP consumption is unchanged per day. But the proportion of consumed TP that is consumed at retail must be up 30-50%. Nearly nobody is using their work/school/restaurant's TP that comes in giant rolls or in a cardboard box without a UPC code. Same for tomato sauce: Most people don't want the 10# cans that food-service used to buy. Or the barrels that a pizza shop would buy. Grocery stores probably don't have a SKU for those. Could be a different packaging factory entirely.
  - divbzero 7y ago
    A local restaurant has been offering a roll of TP per take out order. I thought it was a nice gesture but hadn’t considered that it reflects this shift in demand from businesses to homes.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Yeah, I'm guessing that while it's for marketing value, they're not buying that TP - the source is their own stock which they can't use now that the venue itself is closed.

by cletus 7y ago

Spooky23 7y ago

Great point — also this season is the nadir of retailing. Everyone is broke from Christmas until March/April and companies shit their lines down to start making new product.

ineedasername 7y ago
>shit their lines down I'm not sure if that was meant to be a deliberate pun or just a fortuitous typo, but it fits here.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  No it doesn't
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Definitely a typo. My apologies.

ineedasername 7y ago

The secondary hoarders-- those who hoard because others have hoarded-- are in some ways behaving rationally too: Try to buy your normal rate of toilet paper and find it gone; then you search and search; when you finally find some you don't know when you might do so again, so you need to buy extra. It doesn't seem like a problem that will be solved until, gradually, everyone has plenty and most stores are stocked. That seems to be how things abated in 1973, over a few months.

colechristensen 7y ago
The rational way to behave is to not live roll to roll, so to speak. A well stocked pantry won't have trouble in a scare because... well it will have stock. Few things suck so much time away as having to go out for X because you've run out. In other news I've got fourteen pounds of beans if anybody wants any.
- lmm 7y ago
  > The rational way to behave is to not live roll to roll, so to speak. A well stocked pantry won't have trouble in a scare because... well it will have stock. Just-in-time manufacturing succeeded because supply chains became reliable enough that factories didn't need their own stockpiles. If you're out in the country and you have a big pantry then sure, stock up, but those of us living in the city may not have space. And even if you do have space, if everyone realises they have no stock and decides to buy up a month's supply, that has pretty much the same practical impact as hoarding.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    "Hoarding" is just a smear word on building an emergency buffer just-in-time. Or, JIT supply chains extend all the way to end-consumer, so let's not act surprised that a spike in demand due to perceived risk increase breaks everything up the chain. This should've been conpensated for in the chain.
    - maccard 7y ago
      no, "hoarding" in this sense isn't a smear word on a buffer, it's buying 4/5/6x your normal buffer, to the point that people who haven't hoarded are now starting to be left without. I have a 48sqm apartment with 2 adults and a dog. we only _just_ have enough space for 3 weeks worth of all supplies. we're now running low on the things that people started panic buying a month ago, because of hoarding, not because of buffering.
      - 7y ago

nl 7y ago

In Australia here too. Supermarkets have introduced limits on the number of toilet roll packets you can buy (which is sensible). However, last weekend I was at the supermarket when it opened, and I observed something I haven't seen noted elsewhere. Manufactures seem only to be shipping enormous packages of toilet paper (24 packs). This means people buy 1 packet of 24 rolls, because that is all that is available. These huge packets also take more shelf space, which results in more shortages. Some smaller, independent supermarkets have taken to re-packaging the rolls into smaller packets, which is a win/win for both the shop and the consumer. But the manufacturer behaviour is interesting and unfortunate.

cletus 7y ago
There's another side to this. I've seen footage of this on the news. People will buy their per customer limits, throw it into their cars and queue up again. Rinse and repeat. The footage I saw of this was toilet paper. Some people.
- tehlike 7y ago
  Costco does similar limitz I wish they used member id as the limit, not the checkout Id...
lmm 7y ago
I think most people are happy to buy a 24 pack at the moment (and would probably buy multiples of smaller packs otherwise), and it's probably easier to distribute only 24-packs than a mix of sizes. I'm all for manufacturers prioritising throughput over convenience for the duration of the crisis.
- nl 7y ago
  Except that means that less households get supply, which forces them into more extreme measures. People are happy to buy anything at the moment. Making sure each household can get supply seems like it should be a priority.
  - 7y ago

waste_monk 7y ago

We were lucky to have bought a 6-pack of triple-length rolls of TP right before the drought hit, but it's been a few weeks not and every time I've been to the shop the TP shelves have been bare. A checkout girl told me they restock overnight and every day it's gone within two hours of opening (although that was before they brought in the dedicated AM shopping hour for the seniors/disabled to get their supplies).

maxden 7y ago

I also think there are now a couple of new factors affecting it. With people staying at home, the demand of toilet paper has shifted to the home more. People might be limiting their trips to the shop and are bulk buying more. But I agree the hoarding is still creating a shortage of toilet paper (and pasta, meat etc). It will be good when people have enough and we see things stocked on the shelves like normal. Although with potential businesses closing or enforced self isolation, I can't see the shelves looking normal for a while. Been a run on bottle shops, Bunnings etc as well. It's been interesting to see what gets sold out, there is still plenty of canned tuna etc, but no lemon juice (but there is lime juice). Didn't realise people used lemon juice so much.

Scoundreller 7y ago
> With people staying at home, the demand of toilet paper has shifted to the home more. This. TP consumption is unchanged per day. But the proportion of consumed TP that is consumed at retail must be up 30-50%. Nearly nobody is using their work/school/restaurant's TP that comes in giant rolls or in a cardboard box without a UPC code. Same for tomato sauce: Most people don't want the 10# cans that food-service used to buy. Or the barrels that a pizza shop would buy. Grocery stores probably don't have a SKU for those. Could be a different packaging factory entirely.
- divbzero 7y ago
  A local restaurant has been offering a roll of TP per take out order. I thought it was a nice gesture but hadn’t considered that it reflects this shift in demand from businesses to homes.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Yeah, I'm guessing that while it's for marketing value, they're not buying that TP - the source is their own stock which they can't use now that the venue itself is closed.