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The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to

by baxtr 7y ago

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

deleted 7y ago
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Mountain_Skies 7y ago
Do you have an exact quote from the president where he recommends that the public obtain and self medicate with chloroquine? Or have you significantly altered his statements for your own political agenda?
- wolfi1 7y ago
  https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731 https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731
  - nostromo 7y ago
    He said doctors can administer it under new FDA guidance. He didn't say "drink an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks." http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate I don't see why every story needs to be about him.
    - whateveracct 7y ago
      This story is clearly related to Trump and would not have happened without his statements. Just because he didn't say anything 100% explicitly the cause it and may have been misinterpreted is honestly besides the point. When you are given the power of the presidency, you should either treat your public words with care of just quit forever for all our sakes. This is just how having power _works_. It's a two-way street, and the idealistic American Way. EDIT: Anyone care to explain the downvotes? This is my opinion on those gifted with power in all situations. It goes for companies as well. If you're the CEO, VPE, whatever. There should be checks to balance that gifted power. One check is a higher standard of public speaking due to your newfound influence.
      - chrisco255 7y ago
        Simple. You make a clear connection between Trump saying hydroxychloroquine has promise and they're fast-tracking FDA approval to...man consumes fish tank additive. Trump was not even the only high profile person touting it. Elon Musk, too, touts the drug. It's not even clear this man had COVID-19. How much of his actions were driven by the escalating irrational fear on news reports? How much was driven by some random internet forum somewhere making such a suggestion? What was the mental state of the man in question? Why didn't this man seek medical advice before consuming fish tank chemicals? There's a ton about just this one story to unpack, but of course it's been sensationalized as a political hit job.
    - triceratops 7y ago
      The FDA has not approved it for COVID-19.
      - redis_mlc 7y ago
        Not sure if that's relevant. Once a drug is approved by the FDA for one disease, it can be used off-label for other purposes.
        deleted 7y ago
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        triceratops 7y ago
        It absolutely is relevant. A layperson will hear "chloroquine works on Covid-19. The FDA's approved it. The President himself said so." Like I could go and say "The FDA has approved Rogaine." It's true, but it's a useless statement in the context of Covid-19.
        marzell 7y ago
        Iodine is approved for treating exposure to radiation. That doesn't mean it's OK to start drinking from a bottle of industrial-use iodine that isn't made for human consumption.
        AstralStorm 7y ago
        Likely much safer than taking aquarium cleaner, presuming correct dosage. These things tend to be chemically pure.
    - drodgers 7y ago
      And as we know, the exact wording of Trump's statements is of critical importance to how his supporters interpret them.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody. Surely you've noticed that some folk take the President's public statements at face value.
      - deleted 7y ago
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    - mindslight 7y ago
      > I don't see why every story needs to be about him. He's literally the President. If he didn't want the spotlight on him, he shouldn't have run. If he doesn't want a negative spotlight on him, he should stop confidently proclaiming bullshit that requires nuanced correction to not be actively harmful. It didn't really matter when the topics were just partisan squabbling, as nothing was going to get done anyway. But we're now facing a shared crisis and yet he keeps at the same disruptive boasting. It's inexcusable.
  - Orcus90482 7y ago
    A quick skim of the article does not show any quote stating you should self medicate. There are quotes misrepresenting which stage of approval it is in.
    - mattkrause 7y ago
      Verbatim quote from the President: "if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody." Edit: Yes, I realize what he probably meant. I know how meds work. I still think he should have chosen his wording more carefully.
      - ummonk 7y ago
        I.e. even if the drug is ineffective, at least we know it doesn't have fatal side effects, because it has already been used widely and approved for malaria treatment after going through safety trials a long while ago. This is in contrast to experimental drugs, which don't just have questionable efficacy, but also unknown safety. It goes without saying that like all prescription drugs which have been proven safe, chloroquine should only be taken when prescribed by a doctor, at the recommended dosage. Obviously if you self-medicate with any safe prescription drug, you risk harming yourself by overdosing.
        mattkrause 7y ago
        I realize that's probably what he (or realistically, whoever told him that) meant, but that's not at all what he said. He's talking to a broad, panicked audience and anyone doing so ought to choose their words carefully. Something like "Great news is that we've already had safety data for this stuff, so we're going straight to efficacy trials!" would convey plenty of optimism without encouraging yahoos to do dumb things.
        anigbrowl 7y ago
        It doesn't really go without saying. Otherwise pharmaceutical advertising wouldn't need copious safety warnings in every single commercial. I don't think it's a good idea to take the President's happy talk at face value, but then I also didn't think it was ever a good idea to spend money on Trump University, or donating to Trump charities; on the other hand, enough people did that the matters ended up in court and the two branded entities mentioned above were both found to be liable for misinforming their customers/donors. There are a lot of stupid folk among the public, and it is to them that scam artists like Jim Bakker or Alex Jones market quack cures. There's an appetite for quack cures because they seem affordable relative to the often-inaccessible costs of basic medical treatment, because we don't have a universal public health system in the USA. The sad fact is that people sell snake oil because there are fat profits to be made by doing so, even though most of us recognize such products as little better than placebos at best or dangerous at worst. This is why we have product regulation, credentialing and so on; it's hard for people to personally assess the quality of every product or service and there are unscrupulous people who are willing to exploit that difficulty.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    The article says Trump instructed the FDA to clinically trial it, and describes the conditions under which a doctor can currently prescribe it. What exactly are you claiming is irresponsible about this?
  - LocalH 7y ago
    That link has absolutely nothing to do with whether Trump "recommends that the public obtain and self medicate with chloroquine"
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Xavdidtheshadow 7y ago
  Right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GuNbGC2D_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GuNbGC2D_8
  - ummonk 7y ago
    He said that it has had very encouraging early results, and we know it won't kill anyone because it has already been in use, and that they will work with the FDA to make it available. All of this is accurate. It doesn't mean people should be self-medicating, anymore than they should be self-medicating for malaria treatment. Look, I've been highly critical of Trump's handling of the crisis but you can't really pin this particular incident on him.
- freepor 7y ago
  Exact quote regarding a drug not approved by the FDA for treatment of the disease: "We’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately." And: "It may work, it may not work. I feel good about it. That’s all it is. Just a feeling." From a pharmaceutical company, this would be patently illegal advertising since it's mentioning an off-label use of a drug. From a politician with zero medical knowledge, it's vastly irresponsible given the size of audience who listens to him and trusts him.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    The FDA has approved it as a prescription drug. You shouldn't use a prescription drug unless you have a doctor telling you to. A doctor would know to look for the side effects and contraindications of quinine (of which there are many). Obviously, self medicating a prescription drug is irresponsible. None of what the president says changes that. He said the FDA approved it. Independent of the truth value of that statement, it would still be approved of as a prescription drug.
    - triceratops 7y ago
      The FDA has not approved it as a prescription drug for Covid-19. It's approved for malaria.
      - wl 7y ago
        That's not really relevant. A physician can lawfully prescribe it today for COVID-19 despite not being FDA approved for that indication because it's approved for other indications. This is called off-label use. What FDA approval for treating COVID-19 would mean is that the drug could be marketed for such use. In a pandemic, I don't think that's a major consideration.
        triceratops 7y ago
        It absolutely is relevant. A layperson will hear "chloroquine works on Covid-19. The FDA's approved it. The President himself said so."
- decebalus1 7y ago
  https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242120391054757900 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12421203910547579... https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1241367239900778501 https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/12413672399007785... So everything below him explicitly telling everyone to obtain and consume chloroquine doesn't count, right? He's the goddamn president. I expect his words to be very carefully weighted.
  - blunte 7y ago
    Let me help you a bit: s/I expect his words to be carefully weighted/I expect a person in his position to use carefully considered words/ By now we know that's not the reality the US lives in.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    You're blaming Trump for the peanut gallery on Twitter?
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    I think if you want to criticize somebody for saying something, they should have at least actually said it.
  - alvah 7y ago
    Where have you been hiding since 2016, that you expect Trump's words to be very carefully weighted?
- blunte 7y ago
  One does not need to make any effort to construct any absurd statement to assign to Trump. He gleefully posts an unending stream of them to choose from on Twitter. And if that fails, there are frequent recent campaign rally videos to use.
- topher200 7y ago
  > Now, a drug called chloroquine — and some people would add to it “hydroxy-.” Hydroxychloroquine. So chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine. Now, this is a common malaria drug. It is also a drug used for strong arthritis. If somebody has pretty serious arthritis, also uses this in a somewhat different form. But it is known as a malaria drug, and it’s been around for a long time and it’s very powerful. But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody. > When you go with a brand-new drug, you don’t know that that’s going to happen. You have to see and you have to go — long test. But this has been used in different forms — very powerful drug — in different forms. And it’s shown very encouraging — very, very encouraging early results. And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. And that’s where the FDA has been so great. They — they’ve gone through the approval process; it’s been approved. And they did it — they took it down from many, many months to immediate. So we’re going to be able to make that drug available by prescription or states. > I spoke with Governor Cuomo about it at great length last night, and he wants to be right on — on the — he wants to be first on line. And so I think that’s a tremendous — there’s tremendous promise, based on the results and other tests. There’s tremendous promise. And normally the FDA would take a long time to approve something like that, and it’s — it was approved very, very quickly and it’s now approved, by prescription. Individual states will handle it. They can handle it. Doctors will handle it. And I think it’s going to be — I think it’s going to be great. > Then we’re quickly studying this drug, and while we’re continuing to study it — but the studying is going to be also done in — as it’s given out to large groups of people, perhaps in New York and other places. We’ll study it there. From his March 19 statement: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-6/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-pres.... In total, he mentioned the drug by name 11 times during that statement (according to Ctrl+f).
  - orblivion 7y ago
    I'm reading "This drug is gonna be great." I'm not reading "take this drug without your doctor's orders".
    - 7y ago
- gowld 7y ago
  Please don't make inflammatory comments in lieu of simple Internet searches. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-undercuts-fauci-on-whether-chloroquine-can-treat-coronavirus-2020-3%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-u...
- post_below 7y ago
  "We're going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. And that's where the FDA has been so great. They've gone through the approval process - it's been approved."
- mattkrause 7y ago
  Do you have an exact quote from Henry II where he asks someone to murder Thomas Becket?
  - mmhsieh 7y ago
    or an exact quote when George bush said there were WMDs in Iraq?
    - mattkrause 7y ago
      "The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons." (October 7, 2002). https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/new/doc%2012/President%20Bush%20Outlines%20Iraqi%20Threat.htm https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/new/doc%2012/Pre...
      - mmhsieh 7y ago
        by the standards of the trump defenders he literally needed to say "there are WMDs in Iraq"
- triceratops 7y ago
  He said something to the effect of "chloroquine shows promise. The FDA has approved for it to be prescribed." The first statement is debatable (for now), while the second is completely false. (full quote below) Can we agree that it's not great to be giving out incomplete or incorrect information on such a prominent stage? "It's shown very encouraging -- very, very encouraging early results...Normally the FDA would take a long time to approve something like that, and it's -- it was approved very, very quickly and it's now approved, by prescription." However, the FDA after the briefing issued a statement saying it had not approved the drug for use against Covid-19 and is still studying its effectiveness against the disease. https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/africa/chloroquine-trump-nigeria-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/africa/chloroquine-trump-nige...
  - abnry 7y ago
    Trump is very bad at communicating. However, as I understood what Trump was trying to say is that the drug has already passed clinical tests by the FDA which shows it is not massively risky to take, for any reason, within proper limits. So it is FDA approved, just not for COVID-19 uses. (That is, without adding "for COVID-19", the statement "The FDA has approved it to be prescribed" is literally true.) He is contrasting this to some other drug that could potentially be used to help COVID-19 patients but has not had the same testing. This is a huge deal, because it allows the FDA to move quicker in evaluating the potential use of the drug in COVID-19 situations.
- pmichaud 7y ago
  I was wondering the same. It's really hard to quote Trump because of the way he talks, but I looked up a transcript of the press conference in question: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-6/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-pres... The quote (heavily pruned, but you can look it up in the link to verify I didn't change the meaning) is: > Now, a drug called chloroquine ... is a common malaria drug. It is also a drug used for strong arthritis... in a somewhat different form ... But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, ... it’s not going to kill anybody. > When you go with a brand-new drug, you don’t know that that’s going to happen. ... But this has been used in different forms — very powerful drug ... And it’s shown very encouraging — very, very encouraging early results. And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. [The FDA has] gone through the approval process; it’s been approved. ... So we’re going to be able to make that drug available by prescription or states. There is more, and it's similar in tone. So I don't think he said "Please go take the following drug without advice from your doctor" but he did say that it was powerful, safe, and already approved by the FDA. So I think it's fair to say that he was incautious in talking about a potentially dangerous, experimental treatment.
  - powowowow 7y ago
    It really sucks that people are downvoting your cogent and fact-based response.
    - pmichaud 7y ago
      I thought so too, but when someone gets involved in divisive topics online, they get what they get.
- deleted 7y ago
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- Uehreka 7y ago
  Here’s one example of him advising that it might be useful: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fauci-throws-cold-water-trumps-declaration-malaria-drug/story?id=69716324 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fauci-throws-cold-water-trum... And yeah, his language is imprecise enough that you could pick it apart and find a reasonable motivation behind it if you looked hard enough. But even a really charitable reading can only upgrade his remarks from “flagrantly dangerous” to “unnecessary and not very helpful”, and we should expect more from the president than that.
- cmurf 7y ago
  This is a smear tactic to silence the rational and logical criticism of near constant mendacity by a public official. The actual political agenda here is the smear tactic itself, that tries to stop holding such public officials accountable to their prior statements, as if they have taken no oath of office that binds them to a fiduciary duty to protect others. We can have no civil society without these oaths being taken seriously, and holding people accountable for breaking them. It does not matter if they are CEOs, CFOs, CIOs, senators, representatives, or presidents. We are lost if they are treated as mere scraps of paper or words people say as blasé ritual.
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AmericanChopper 7y ago
When did Trump recommend that people self-medicate chloroquine? Even the CNN article trying to pin this on him only quoted him as saying that he was working with the FDA to make it available via prescription for this treatment.
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  You're surely aware that Trump regularly declares himself more knowledgeable than the experts and derides his critics as 'fake news' or 'never trumpers' etc. etc. It's not a stretch to think that more credulous folk might take his tweets literally in defiance of common sense, given the media ecosystem dedicated to promoting his 24-7.
  - mlindner 7y ago
    That's completely unrelated to the person you responded to. You can't blame someone for simply mentioning something and not even advocating for it. Good grief.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    Trump didn’t come up with or popularize the idea for this treatment. All he’s done is instruct the FDA to trial it, and stated exactly when a doctor can prescribe it. This is nothing more than any of the other doctors or health officials who think the treatment has potential have done. There is no possible way that any of his comments could be construed as advice to illegally acquire and self-medicate with a drug you know nothing about. All of his comments have been about have been about having the drug properly approved for use by qualified doctors. Which given the circumstances seems like exactly the sort of response you would want from the executive.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      Now now, there are multiple quotations on this thread showing that not to be true.
      - 7y ago
blunte 7y ago
I'm inclined to argue about the title "most powerful nation on this planet". It's a nice tagline, but the metrics for which it applies are narrowing rapidly. But still, let this be a lesson to those who would follow bad leaders to their own demise; or rather, let it be a lesson to their offspring who watch them follow the bad leaders. I suspect humanity follows cycles of enlightenment, complacency, and self-destruction (or irrelevance, which is equally damning depending on the individual). We appear to be between stage 2 and 3 at this point.
- rabidrat 7y ago
  > I suspect humanity follows cycles of enlightenment, complacency, and self-destruction This theory would agree (and it makes sense to me): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generatio...
- deleted 7y ago
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- rbanffy 7y ago
  > I'm inclined to argue about the title "most powerful nation on this planet". Richest underdeveloped country? Most powerful failed state?
  - bigyikes 7y ago
    We can debate the originally proposed title, but failed state? Come on.
- sandov 7y ago
  > But still, let this be a lesson to those who would follow bad leaders to their own demise; or rather, let it be a lesson to their offspring who watch them follow the bad leaders. a.k.a 90% of the population. At such point, you're just complaining about human stupidity, instead of any specific group. And our children will be just as stupid as us, but their leader will say dumb things about other issues instead of chloroquine.
deleted 7y ago
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HarryHirsch 7y ago
We all made fun of South Africa's Thabo Mbeki when he recommended beetroot, garlic and other herbs to combat HIV. Turns out, we have no reason. It did happen here, on primetime TV.
- Alex3917 7y ago
  The FDA approved emergency expanded access for inhaled nitric oxide a couple days ago, which has the same mechanism of action as garlic and beet root. There is actually a plausible mechanism of action there, and a bunch of in vitro research.
  - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
    Post a link because I right now I have no reason to believe you.
    - Alex3917 7y ago
      I posted links to one of the in vitro studies here, and in the comments I posted the press release for the FDA approval: https://www.reddit.com/r/covid19stack https://www.reddit.com/r/covid19stack
      - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
        This goes to "COVID-19 Stack: Research and discussion on supplements and medications relating to COVID-19! No mate, post a precise link. This one goes nowhere and I still don't believe you.
      - et2o 7y ago
        Your information is wrong and misleading. It’s irresponsible for you to post stuff like this.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
jorblumesea 7y ago
Just one in a long line of completely inappropriate and norm breaking things he's done as President. Releasing classified info, false claims on Hurricane Dorian, fighting with his intelligence agencies, vaccine hoaxes, suppressing the press. Just go down the list. Possibly the least presidential president we've had in awhile.
- gwright 7y ago
  > Releasing classified info The President can make that decision, it is part of his powers as President. He isn't prohibited from doing that. Perhaps you don't think something in particular should have been released. If so make that case, but just complaining about this in general is illogical. > fighting with his intelligence agencies You mean the intelligence agencies that have worked very hard to delegitimize his presidency, mislead the FISA court and so on? Those agencies have a lot to answer for and shouldn't be treated as infallible. > suppressing the press Really? The press seems quite free to say whatever they want under Trump. It just seems silly to say that Trump is limiting the press.
tomp 7y ago
It's been tested for years (decades? it's generic) as an anti-malaria drug. Any drug can be overdosed.
- ryan_j_naughton 7y ago
  That's an oversimplification. The amount for an overdose is only around 3X a regular dose (2g vs 600mg) In contrast, most drugs for which you overdose need to be at much higher dosage multiples compared to the prescribed dose.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    Acetaminophen is also easy to overdose and has been recommended as a fever reducer for Coronavirus.
    - wildrhythms 7y ago
      Who is recommending acetaminophen for coronavirus fever reduction? Provide a source.
      - skissane 7y ago
        UK National Health Service, for one: https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/paracetamol-for-adults/ https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/paracetamol-for-adults/ > NHS coronavirus advice > There is currently no strong evidence that ibuprofen can make coronavirus (COVID-19) worse. > But until we have more information, take paracetamol to treat the symptoms of coronavirus, unless your doctor has told you paracetamol is not suitable for you. > If you are already taking ibuprofen or another non-steroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID) on the advice of a doctor, do not stop taking it without checking first. > Updated: 17 March 2020 Over-the-counter use of paracetamol (aka acetaminophen) for fever reduction is entirely standard medical advice, not specific to coronavirus at all.
      - Rebelgecko 7y ago
        The World Heath Organization: https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-resource-center https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coron... At one point it was the only drug they recommended for fever reduction, but they retracted their statement about avoiding ibuprofen
plastic_teeth 7y ago
True thing. Also people who I like like Elon Musk spoke about it https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239650597906898947?s=20 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239650597906898947?s=20 On one side his voice should be heard, it may give people hope and help to move stuff On the other side, some people who don't know what balance is, might use it in the wrong way.
- tathougies 7y ago
  How are these people getting their hands on prescription drugs? Someone touting X prescription drug as a potential cure for something doesn't mean we should all go out and take it. I mean, PrEP is a treatment to prevent the AIDS virus from spreading, but it's not like someone being happy about that means you should somehow illegally procure and take a prescription drug. The double standards here are shocking.
  - samizdis 7y ago
    I am fairly sure that chloroquine is available without prescription in many African countries, so one-time visitors may have kept a stash of anti-malarials bought during a trip. It is (or used to be) available over the counter in the UK, too.
  - jdminhbg 7y ago
    > How are these people getting their hands on prescription drugs? The people in this story didn't get their hands on prescription drugs, they found an aquarium chemical with a similar name.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      Are you arguing that the chloroquine they took, as chloroquine phosphate, is different from the chloroquine that's used to treat malaria? That's more than "a similar name". It's the same name. From what I've read, both chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are used to treat inflammation. So is it chloroquine vs hydroxychloroquine that you're referring to?
Alex3917 7y ago
He didn’t recommend using the drug. And even if he straight up told people to eat massive doses meant for fish, that still wouldn’t absolve anyone from the consequences of their actions.
- deleted 7y ago
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blhack 7y ago
This is ridiculous. There has been studies and papers being written and released for MONTHS from all over the world. We’ve known about chloroquine since January. This INSISTENCE people keep having on politicizing this is infuriating and it’s going to get people killed. Stop doing this. Now is not the time for political point gathering.
- jonny_eh 7y ago
  > it’s going to get people killed Like the man that the article is about?
  - blhack 7y ago
    Yes, exactly like the man in the article. People are trying to make this into some political, partisan fight, which causes people’s trust in experts to be eroded. There’s a whole story about this called the boy who cried wolf.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      The President's whole brand is that he knows more than the experts. I'm listening to him right now, live, saying 'the doctors re telling us we have to shut down the whole world, they want to shut it down for years, but you can't let the cure be worse than the problem.' He's talking complete nonsense about quarantine and how bad it is to close the stock exchange while saying the quarantine is a bigger problem than the virus because he's created so many jobs and that it'll cause 'tremendous death.' ¯\(°_o)/¯
      - gwright 7y ago
        Hard to understand your point. It seems quite obvious to me that you can't shut down the world economy for any length of time without introducing enormous amounts of collateral damage (i.e. deaths). What is nonsense about that?
        7y ago
briandear 7y ago
He didn’t recommend people self medicate. And their are doctors in New York using these drugs right now. Some dumbass self medicating with any prescription drug without a doctor’s supervision gets what he gets. And the drug does show promise. Trump could cure cancer and people will be mad about it. If Obama had mentioned this drug people would react completely differently. During H1N1, 4000 Americans died from that; it isn’t like Obama had a stellar track record in quelling a pandemic either. https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/22/new-york-to-begin-clinical-trials-for-coronavirus-treatment-tuesday-cuomo-says/#7173bfed4203 https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/22/new-yo... https://www.insidernj.com/press-release/top-doctors-join-pennacchios-call-use-hydroxychloroquine-combat-spread-covid-19/ https://www.insidernj.com/press-release/top-doctors-join-pen... All of this concern that this treatment is “unproven” — well of course it is, this is all happening very fast, but to immediately oppose this drug because Trump is just political nonsense. It seems almost as if people want it to take years to find a solution to this thing. This constant anti-Trump vitriol is getting tired and old. People are dying right now, yet we are going to quibble on a drug that is showing promise just because Trump suggested it? https://veltnews.com/no-deaths-at-lennox-hill-hospital-from-the-virus-after-using-hydroxychloroquine/ https://veltnews.com/no-deaths-at-lennox-hill-hospital-from-...
mstade 7y ago
I too find it inappropriate to use a drug that hasn't first been properly tested by the president. Do lead the way, president Trump! :o)
donohoe 7y ago
most powerful nation on this planet That was true once. I doubt it’s true today.
belorn 7y ago
Reading down the comments on this thread, there is a big question. How did this person acquire the drug? It seems to be a controlled substance, ie a prescription drug for malaria, so what happened? Did they also happen to be diagnosed for malaria? In times like this we should advocate for more information and getting facts out.
- filoleg 7y ago
  Reading the details, it seems like the person in question used chloroquine that was acquired in form of an aquarium cleaner. Definitely not something meant to be consumed by humans.
  - belorn 7y ago
    That raises many more questions, like what other horrible toxic chemicals a aquarium cleaner product has. Drain cleaners are infamous known for being used in suicide, and recall it being mentioned on medical shows as one of the most nasty thing someone can put into their body.
nethergh0st 7y ago
I watched all of the press conferences. He never recommended it. He said that it showed promise and he had high hopes that it would work. One day he even clearly said that it might or it might not work. This is hardly what I call a recommendation. The point was to give the American people some hope that we are on the right track to finding something that helps.
- privatewindow 7y ago
  I watched them all too and he said no such thing. It doesn't matter to the HN crowd though because Orange Man Bad! He could save babies from drowning in a river and it still wouldn't matter to this lot here. Lately, I have completely rethought the idea of what intelligence truly is. I used to think engineers were smart but I no longer do. There too many DUMB engineers on HN and in the valley. Cue ban in 3, 2, 1...
partiallypro 7y ago
Even if this were approved for use, do you honestly think ODs won't happen? One of the most common drug deaths is from Tylenol.
deleted 7y ago
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hnburnsy 7y ago
They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health hospita
- teddyvangogh 7y ago
  ---------------------------------------- BREAKING NEWS: CHLOROQUINE CURES CORONAVIRUS BUT DOES NOT CURE STUPIDITY. ---------------------------------------
  - dang 7y ago
    We've banned this account for posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- mirimir 7y ago
  There's an important detail missing: the dose. I gather that the therapeutic dose is on the order of 500 mg/day. So did they eat 10x that, 100x that, or what?
  - JulianMorrison 7y ago
    Given it's a bulk cleaning product, they'd need some damn finely calibrated scales to measure out anything more precise than "a pinch". Which clearly isn't good when 3x the clinical dose will land you in hospital.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      I just bought an electronic scale with 10 mg accuracy for $30, so hey.
root_axis 7y ago
I think it's a stretch to pin this particular death on Trump. He never suggested or advised people self-medicate prescription drugs. This was just a scared uneducated couple that made a terrible mistake.
- cheese4242 7y ago
  Agreed. Also, this wasn't even somebody taking too much of a prescribed drug. The man who died drank aquarium cleaner.
privatewindow 7y ago
I agree! Orange Man Bad.
gulli1010 7y ago
It is also the recommended treatment in some European countries https://epidemio.wiv-isp.be/ID/Documents/Covid19/COVID-19_InterimGuidelines_Treatment_ENG.pdf https://epidemio.wiv-isp.be/ID/Documents/Covid19/COVID-19_In...
qwerty456127 7y ago
I am an extremely pro-self-medication (implying every literate person should have basic medical education knowing how does their body function and how to maintain it optimally) and anti-scheduling person yet hell yeah I agree - people whom many people believe in, especially the officials like the freakin president should quadruple-check before saying anything what can be risky. Billions of people listen to him, a huge portion of them is not particularly bright, he should take that in account. Ideally it should be illegal for an official to say anything that is not scientifically correct.
pbreit 7y ago
It's a prescription drug (unless you're ingesting the aquarium cleaner). No one is recommending self-medication. Two people having a bad reaction suggests highly improper usage. Do you dislike it mainly because Trump mentioned it?
lawn 7y ago
In the movie Contagion (2011) there's an influencer promoting an untested medicine during a global pandemic. It was quite scary and upsetting and all too real. But now we have the president of the United States recommending you to make your own drug cocktail during a global pandemic. If someone had written that in the script it would've been thrown out as too unreal.

by baxtr 7y ago

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

deleted 7y ago

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Mountain_Skies 7y ago

Do you have an exact quote from the president where he recommends that the public obtain and self medicate with chloroquine? Or have you significantly altered his statements for your own political agenda?

wolfi1 7y ago
https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731 https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731
- nostromo 7y ago
  He said doctors can administer it under new FDA guidance. He didn't say "drink an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks." http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate I don't see why every story needs to be about him.
  - whateveracct 7y ago
    This story is clearly related to Trump and would not have happened without his statements. Just because he didn't say anything 100% explicitly the cause it and may have been misinterpreted is honestly besides the point. When you are given the power of the presidency, you should either treat your public words with care of just quit forever for all our sakes. This is just how having power _works_. It's a two-way street, and the idealistic American Way. EDIT: Anyone care to explain the downvotes? This is my opinion on those gifted with power in all situations. It goes for companies as well. If you're the CEO, VPE, whatever. There should be checks to balance that gifted power. One check is a higher standard of public speaking due to your newfound influence.
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      Simple. You make a clear connection between Trump saying hydroxychloroquine has promise and they're fast-tracking FDA approval to...man consumes fish tank additive. Trump was not even the only high profile person touting it. Elon Musk, too, touts the drug. It's not even clear this man had COVID-19. How much of his actions were driven by the escalating irrational fear on news reports? How much was driven by some random internet forum somewhere making such a suggestion? What was the mental state of the man in question? Why didn't this man seek medical advice before consuming fish tank chemicals? There's a ton about just this one story to unpack, but of course it's been sensationalized as a political hit job.
  - triceratops 7y ago
    The FDA has not approved it for COVID-19.
    - redis_mlc 7y ago
      Not sure if that's relevant. Once a drug is approved by the FDA for one disease, it can be used off-label for other purposes.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - triceratops 7y ago
        It absolutely is relevant. A layperson will hear "chloroquine works on Covid-19. The FDA's approved it. The President himself said so." Like I could go and say "The FDA has approved Rogaine." It's true, but it's a useless statement in the context of Covid-19.
      - marzell 7y ago
        Iodine is approved for treating exposure to radiation. That doesn't mean it's OK to start drinking from a bottle of industrial-use iodine that isn't made for human consumption.
        AstralStorm 7y ago
        Likely much safer than taking aquarium cleaner, presuming correct dosage. These things tend to be chemically pure.
  - drodgers 7y ago
    And as we know, the exact wording of Trump's statements is of critical importance to how his supporters interpret them.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody. Surely you've noticed that some folk take the President's public statements at face value.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
      - deleted 7y ago
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  - mindslight 7y ago
    > I don't see why every story needs to be about him. He's literally the President. If he didn't want the spotlight on him, he shouldn't have run. If he doesn't want a negative spotlight on him, he should stop confidently proclaiming bullshit that requires nuanced correction to not be actively harmful. It didn't really matter when the topics were just partisan squabbling, as nothing was going to get done anyway. But we're now facing a shared crisis and yet he keeps at the same disruptive boasting. It's inexcusable.
- Orcus90482 7y ago
  A quick skim of the article does not show any quote stating you should self medicate. There are quotes misrepresenting which stage of approval it is in.
  - mattkrause 7y ago
    Verbatim quote from the President: "if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody." Edit: Yes, I realize what he probably meant. I know how meds work. I still think he should have chosen his wording more carefully.
    - ummonk 7y ago
      I.e. even if the drug is ineffective, at least we know it doesn't have fatal side effects, because it has already been used widely and approved for malaria treatment after going through safety trials a long while ago. This is in contrast to experimental drugs, which don't just have questionable efficacy, but also unknown safety. It goes without saying that like all prescription drugs which have been proven safe, chloroquine should only be taken when prescribed by a doctor, at the recommended dosage. Obviously if you self-medicate with any safe prescription drug, you risk harming yourself by overdosing.
      - mattkrause 7y ago
        I realize that's probably what he (or realistically, whoever told him that) meant, but that's not at all what he said. He's talking to a broad, panicked audience and anyone doing so ought to choose their words carefully. Something like "Great news is that we've already had safety data for this stuff, so we're going straight to efficacy trials!" would convey plenty of optimism without encouraging yahoos to do dumb things.
      - anigbrowl 7y ago
        It doesn't really go without saying. Otherwise pharmaceutical advertising wouldn't need copious safety warnings in every single commercial. I don't think it's a good idea to take the President's happy talk at face value, but then I also didn't think it was ever a good idea to spend money on Trump University, or donating to Trump charities; on the other hand, enough people did that the matters ended up in court and the two branded entities mentioned above were both found to be liable for misinforming their customers/donors. There are a lot of stupid folk among the public, and it is to them that scam artists like Jim Bakker or Alex Jones market quack cures. There's an appetite for quack cures because they seem affordable relative to the often-inaccessible costs of basic medical treatment, because we don't have a universal public health system in the USA. The sad fact is that people sell snake oil because there are fat profits to be made by doing so, even though most of us recognize such products as little better than placebos at best or dangerous at worst. This is why we have product regulation, credentialing and so on; it's hard for people to personally assess the quality of every product or service and there are unscrupulous people who are willing to exploit that difficulty.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  The article says Trump instructed the FDA to clinically trial it, and describes the conditions under which a doctor can currently prescribe it. What exactly are you claiming is irresponsible about this?
- LocalH 7y ago
  That link has absolutely nothing to do with whether Trump "recommends that the public obtain and self medicate with chloroquine"
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Xavdidtheshadow 7y ago
Right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GuNbGC2D_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GuNbGC2D_8
- ummonk 7y ago
  He said that it has had very encouraging early results, and we know it won't kill anyone because it has already been in use, and that they will work with the FDA to make it available. All of this is accurate. It doesn't mean people should be self-medicating, anymore than they should be self-medicating for malaria treatment. Look, I've been highly critical of Trump's handling of the crisis but you can't really pin this particular incident on him.
freepor 7y ago
Exact quote regarding a drug not approved by the FDA for treatment of the disease: "We’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately." And: "It may work, it may not work. I feel good about it. That’s all it is. Just a feeling." From a pharmaceutical company, this would be patently illegal advertising since it's mentioning an off-label use of a drug. From a politician with zero medical knowledge, it's vastly irresponsible given the size of audience who listens to him and trusts him.
- tathougies 7y ago
  The FDA has approved it as a prescription drug. You shouldn't use a prescription drug unless you have a doctor telling you to. A doctor would know to look for the side effects and contraindications of quinine (of which there are many). Obviously, self medicating a prescription drug is irresponsible. None of what the president says changes that. He said the FDA approved it. Independent of the truth value of that statement, it would still be approved of as a prescription drug.
  - triceratops 7y ago
    The FDA has not approved it as a prescription drug for Covid-19. It's approved for malaria.
    - wl 7y ago
      That's not really relevant. A physician can lawfully prescribe it today for COVID-19 despite not being FDA approved for that indication because it's approved for other indications. This is called off-label use. What FDA approval for treating COVID-19 would mean is that the drug could be marketed for such use. In a pandemic, I don't think that's a major consideration.
      - triceratops 7y ago
        It absolutely is relevant. A layperson will hear "chloroquine works on Covid-19. The FDA's approved it. The President himself said so."
decebalus1 7y ago
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242120391054757900 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12421203910547579... https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1241367239900778501 https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/12413672399007785... So everything below him explicitly telling everyone to obtain and consume chloroquine doesn't count, right? He's the goddamn president. I expect his words to be very carefully weighted.
- blunte 7y ago
  Let me help you a bit: s/I expect his words to be carefully weighted/I expect a person in his position to use carefully considered words/ By now we know that's not the reality the US lives in.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  You're blaming Trump for the peanut gallery on Twitter?
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  I think if you want to criticize somebody for saying something, they should have at least actually said it.
- alvah 7y ago
  Where have you been hiding since 2016, that you expect Trump's words to be very carefully weighted?
blunte 7y ago
One does not need to make any effort to construct any absurd statement to assign to Trump. He gleefully posts an unending stream of them to choose from on Twitter. And if that fails, there are frequent recent campaign rally videos to use.
topher200 7y ago
> Now, a drug called chloroquine — and some people would add to it “hydroxy-.” Hydroxychloroquine. So chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine. Now, this is a common malaria drug. It is also a drug used for strong arthritis. If somebody has pretty serious arthritis, also uses this in a somewhat different form. But it is known as a malaria drug, and it’s been around for a long time and it’s very powerful. But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody. > When you go with a brand-new drug, you don’t know that that’s going to happen. You have to see and you have to go — long test. But this has been used in different forms — very powerful drug — in different forms. And it’s shown very encouraging — very, very encouraging early results. And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. And that’s where the FDA has been so great. They — they’ve gone through the approval process; it’s been approved. And they did it — they took it down from many, many months to immediate. So we’re going to be able to make that drug available by prescription or states. > I spoke with Governor Cuomo about it at great length last night, and he wants to be right on — on the — he wants to be first on line. And so I think that’s a tremendous — there’s tremendous promise, based on the results and other tests. There’s tremendous promise. And normally the FDA would take a long time to approve something like that, and it’s — it was approved very, very quickly and it’s now approved, by prescription. Individual states will handle it. They can handle it. Doctors will handle it. And I think it’s going to be — I think it’s going to be great. > Then we’re quickly studying this drug, and while we’re continuing to study it — but the studying is going to be also done in — as it’s given out to large groups of people, perhaps in New York and other places. We’ll study it there. From his March 19 statement: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-6/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-pres.... In total, he mentioned the drug by name 11 times during that statement (according to Ctrl+f).
- orblivion 7y ago
  I'm reading "This drug is gonna be great." I'm not reading "take this drug without your doctor's orders".
  - 7y ago
gowld 7y ago
Please don't make inflammatory comments in lieu of simple Internet searches. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-undercuts-fauci-on-whether-chloroquine-can-treat-coronavirus-2020-3%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-u...
post_below 7y ago
"We're going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. And that's where the FDA has been so great. They've gone through the approval process - it's been approved."
mattkrause 7y ago
Do you have an exact quote from Henry II where he asks someone to murder Thomas Becket?
- mmhsieh 7y ago
  or an exact quote when George bush said there were WMDs in Iraq?
  - mattkrause 7y ago
    "The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons." (October 7, 2002). https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/new/doc%2012/President%20Bush%20Outlines%20Iraqi%20Threat.htm https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/new/doc%2012/Pre...
    - mmhsieh 7y ago
      by the standards of the trump defenders he literally needed to say "there are WMDs in Iraq"
triceratops 7y ago
He said something to the effect of "chloroquine shows promise. The FDA has approved for it to be prescribed." The first statement is debatable (for now), while the second is completely false. (full quote below) Can we agree that it's not great to be giving out incomplete or incorrect information on such a prominent stage? "It's shown very encouraging -- very, very encouraging early results...Normally the FDA would take a long time to approve something like that, and it's -- it was approved very, very quickly and it's now approved, by prescription." However, the FDA after the briefing issued a statement saying it had not approved the drug for use against Covid-19 and is still studying its effectiveness against the disease. https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/africa/chloroquine-trump-nigeria-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/africa/chloroquine-trump-nige...
- abnry 7y ago
  Trump is very bad at communicating. However, as I understood what Trump was trying to say is that the drug has already passed clinical tests by the FDA which shows it is not massively risky to take, for any reason, within proper limits. So it is FDA approved, just not for COVID-19 uses. (That is, without adding "for COVID-19", the statement "The FDA has approved it to be prescribed" is literally true.) He is contrasting this to some other drug that could potentially be used to help COVID-19 patients but has not had the same testing. This is a huge deal, because it allows the FDA to move quicker in evaluating the potential use of the drug in COVID-19 situations.
pmichaud 7y ago
I was wondering the same. It's really hard to quote Trump because of the way he talks, but I looked up a transcript of the press conference in question: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-6/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-pres... The quote (heavily pruned, but you can look it up in the link to verify I didn't change the meaning) is: > Now, a drug called chloroquine ... is a common malaria drug. It is also a drug used for strong arthritis... in a somewhat different form ... But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, ... it’s not going to kill anybody. > When you go with a brand-new drug, you don’t know that that’s going to happen. ... But this has been used in different forms — very powerful drug ... And it’s shown very encouraging — very, very encouraging early results. And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. [The FDA has] gone through the approval process; it’s been approved. ... So we’re going to be able to make that drug available by prescription or states. There is more, and it's similar in tone. So I don't think he said "Please go take the following drug without advice from your doctor" but he did say that it was powerful, safe, and already approved by the FDA. So I think it's fair to say that he was incautious in talking about a potentially dangerous, experimental treatment.
- powowowow 7y ago
  It really sucks that people are downvoting your cogent and fact-based response.
  - pmichaud 7y ago
    I thought so too, but when someone gets involved in divisive topics online, they get what they get.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Uehreka 7y ago
Here’s one example of him advising that it might be useful: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fauci-throws-cold-water-trumps-declaration-malaria-drug/story?id=69716324 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fauci-throws-cold-water-trum... And yeah, his language is imprecise enough that you could pick it apart and find a reasonable motivation behind it if you looked hard enough. But even a really charitable reading can only upgrade his remarks from “flagrantly dangerous” to “unnecessary and not very helpful”, and we should expect more from the president than that.
cmurf 7y ago
This is a smear tactic to silence the rational and logical criticism of near constant mendacity by a public official. The actual political agenda here is the smear tactic itself, that tries to stop holding such public officials accountable to their prior statements, as if they have taken no oath of office that binds them to a fiduciary duty to protect others. We can have no civil society without these oaths being taken seriously, and holding people accountable for breaking them. It does not matter if they are CEOs, CFOs, CIOs, senators, representatives, or presidents. We are lost if they are treated as mere scraps of paper or words people say as blasé ritual.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

AmericanChopper 7y ago

When did Trump recommend that people self-medicate chloroquine? Even the CNN article trying to pin this on him only quoted him as saying that he was working with the FDA to make it available via prescription for this treatment.

anigbrowl 7y ago
You're surely aware that Trump regularly declares himself more knowledgeable than the experts and derides his critics as 'fake news' or 'never trumpers' etc. etc. It's not a stretch to think that more credulous folk might take his tweets literally in defiance of common sense, given the media ecosystem dedicated to promoting his 24-7.
- mlindner 7y ago
  That's completely unrelated to the person you responded to. You can't blame someone for simply mentioning something and not even advocating for it. Good grief.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  Trump didn’t come up with or popularize the idea for this treatment. All he’s done is instruct the FDA to trial it, and stated exactly when a doctor can prescribe it. This is nothing more than any of the other doctors or health officials who think the treatment has potential have done. There is no possible way that any of his comments could be construed as advice to illegally acquire and self-medicate with a drug you know nothing about. All of his comments have been about have been about having the drug properly approved for use by qualified doctors. Which given the circumstances seems like exactly the sort of response you would want from the executive.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    Now now, there are multiple quotations on this thread showing that not to be true.
    - 7y ago

blunte 7y ago

I'm inclined to argue about the title "most powerful nation on this planet". It's a nice tagline, but the metrics for which it applies are narrowing rapidly. But still, let this be a lesson to those who would follow bad leaders to their own demise; or rather, let it be a lesson to their offspring who watch them follow the bad leaders. I suspect humanity follows cycles of enlightenment, complacency, and self-destruction (or irrelevance, which is equally damning depending on the individual). We appear to be between stage 2 and 3 at this point.

rabidrat 7y ago
> I suspect humanity follows cycles of enlightenment, complacency, and self-destruction This theory would agree (and it makes sense to me): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generatio...
deleted 7y ago
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rbanffy 7y ago
> I'm inclined to argue about the title "most powerful nation on this planet". Richest underdeveloped country? Most powerful failed state?
- bigyikes 7y ago
  We can debate the originally proposed title, but failed state? Come on.
sandov 7y ago
> But still, let this be a lesson to those who would follow bad leaders to their own demise; or rather, let it be a lesson to their offspring who watch them follow the bad leaders. a.k.a 90% of the population. At such point, you're just complaining about human stupidity, instead of any specific group. And our children will be just as stupid as us, but their leader will say dumb things about other issues instead of chloroquine.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

HarryHirsch 7y ago

We all made fun of South Africa's Thabo Mbeki when he recommended beetroot, garlic and other herbs to combat HIV. Turns out, we have no reason. It did happen here, on primetime TV.

Alex3917 7y ago
The FDA approved emergency expanded access for inhaled nitric oxide a couple days ago, which has the same mechanism of action as garlic and beet root. There is actually a plausible mechanism of action there, and a bunch of in vitro research.
- throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
  Post a link because I right now I have no reason to believe you.
  - Alex3917 7y ago
    I posted links to one of the in vitro studies here, and in the comments I posted the press release for the FDA approval: https://www.reddit.com/r/covid19stack https://www.reddit.com/r/covid19stack
    - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
      This goes to "COVID-19 Stack: Research and discussion on supplements and medications relating to COVID-19! No mate, post a precise link. This one goes nowhere and I still don't believe you.
    - et2o 7y ago
      Your information is wrong and misleading. It’s irresponsible for you to post stuff like this.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]

jorblumesea 7y ago

Just one in a long line of completely inappropriate and norm breaking things he's done as President. Releasing classified info, false claims on Hurricane Dorian, fighting with his intelligence agencies, vaccine hoaxes, suppressing the press. Just go down the list. Possibly the least presidential president we've had in awhile.

gwright 7y ago
> Releasing classified info The President can make that decision, it is part of his powers as President. He isn't prohibited from doing that. Perhaps you don't think something in particular should have been released. If so make that case, but just complaining about this in general is illogical. > fighting with his intelligence agencies You mean the intelligence agencies that have worked very hard to delegitimize his presidency, mislead the FISA court and so on? Those agencies have a lot to answer for and shouldn't be treated as infallible. > suppressing the press Really? The press seems quite free to say whatever they want under Trump. It just seems silly to say that Trump is limiting the press.

tomp 7y ago

It's been tested for years (decades? it's generic) as an anti-malaria drug. Any drug can be overdosed.

ryan_j_naughton 7y ago
That's an oversimplification. The amount for an overdose is only around 3X a regular dose (2g vs 600mg) In contrast, most drugs for which you overdose need to be at much higher dosage multiples compared to the prescribed dose.
- pkaye 7y ago
  Acetaminophen is also easy to overdose and has been recommended as a fever reducer for Coronavirus.
  - wildrhythms 7y ago
    Who is recommending acetaminophen for coronavirus fever reduction? Provide a source.
    - skissane 7y ago
      UK National Health Service, for one: https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/paracetamol-for-adults/ https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/paracetamol-for-adults/ > NHS coronavirus advice > There is currently no strong evidence that ibuprofen can make coronavirus (COVID-19) worse. > But until we have more information, take paracetamol to treat the symptoms of coronavirus, unless your doctor has told you paracetamol is not suitable for you. > If you are already taking ibuprofen or another non-steroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID) on the advice of a doctor, do not stop taking it without checking first. > Updated: 17 March 2020 Over-the-counter use of paracetamol (aka acetaminophen) for fever reduction is entirely standard medical advice, not specific to coronavirus at all.
    - Rebelgecko 7y ago
      The World Heath Organization: https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-resource-center https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coron... At one point it was the only drug they recommended for fever reduction, but they retracted their statement about avoiding ibuprofen

plastic_teeth 7y ago

True thing. Also people who I like like Elon Musk spoke about it https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239650597906898947?s=20 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239650597906898947?s=20 On one side his voice should be heard, it may give people hope and help to move stuff On the other side, some people who don't know what balance is, might use it in the wrong way.

tathougies 7y ago
How are these people getting their hands on prescription drugs? Someone touting X prescription drug as a potential cure for something doesn't mean we should all go out and take it. I mean, PrEP is a treatment to prevent the AIDS virus from spreading, but it's not like someone being happy about that means you should somehow illegally procure and take a prescription drug. The double standards here are shocking.
- samizdis 7y ago
  I am fairly sure that chloroquine is available without prescription in many African countries, so one-time visitors may have kept a stash of anti-malarials bought during a trip. It is (or used to be) available over the counter in the UK, too.
- jdminhbg 7y ago
  > How are these people getting their hands on prescription drugs? The people in this story didn't get their hands on prescription drugs, they found an aquarium chemical with a similar name.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Are you arguing that the chloroquine they took, as chloroquine phosphate, is different from the chloroquine that's used to treat malaria? That's more than "a similar name". It's the same name. From what I've read, both chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are used to treat inflammation. So is it chloroquine vs hydroxychloroquine that you're referring to?

Alex3917 7y ago

He didn’t recommend using the drug. And even if he straight up told people to eat massive doses meant for fish, that still wouldn’t absolve anyone from the consequences of their actions.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

blhack 7y ago

This is ridiculous. There has been studies and papers being written and released for MONTHS from all over the world. We’ve known about chloroquine since January. This INSISTENCE people keep having on politicizing this is infuriating and it’s going to get people killed. Stop doing this. Now is not the time for political point gathering.

jonny_eh 7y ago
> it’s going to get people killed Like the man that the article is about?
- blhack 7y ago
  Yes, exactly like the man in the article. People are trying to make this into some political, partisan fight, which causes people’s trust in experts to be eroded. There’s a whole story about this called the boy who cried wolf.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    The President's whole brand is that he knows more than the experts. I'm listening to him right now, live, saying 'the doctors re telling us we have to shut down the whole world, they want to shut it down for years, but you can't let the cure be worse than the problem.' He's talking complete nonsense about quarantine and how bad it is to close the stock exchange while saying the quarantine is a bigger problem than the virus because he's created so many jobs and that it'll cause 'tremendous death.' ¯\(°_o)/¯
    - gwright 7y ago
      Hard to understand your point. It seems quite obvious to me that you can't shut down the world economy for any length of time without introducing enormous amounts of collateral damage (i.e. deaths). What is nonsense about that?
      - 7y ago

briandear 7y ago

He didn’t recommend people self medicate. And their are doctors in New York using these drugs right now. Some dumbass self medicating with any prescription drug without a doctor’s supervision gets what he gets. And the drug does show promise. Trump could cure cancer and people will be mad about it. If Obama had mentioned this drug people would react completely differently. During H1N1, 4000 Americans died from that; it isn’t like Obama had a stellar track record in quelling a pandemic either. https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/22/new-york-to-begin-clinical-trials-for-coronavirus-treatment-tuesday-cuomo-says/#7173bfed4203 https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/22/new-yo... https://www.insidernj.com/press-release/top-doctors-join-pennacchios-call-use-hydroxychloroquine-combat-spread-covid-19/ https://www.insidernj.com/press-release/top-doctors-join-pen... All of this concern that this treatment is “unproven” — well of course it is, this is all happening very fast, but to immediately oppose this drug because Trump is just political nonsense. It seems almost as if people want it to take years to find a solution to this thing. This constant anti-Trump vitriol is getting tired and old. People are dying right now, yet we are going to quibble on a drug that is showing promise just because Trump suggested it? https://veltnews.com/no-deaths-at-lennox-hill-hospital-from-the-virus-after-using-hydroxychloroquine/ https://veltnews.com/no-deaths-at-lennox-hill-hospital-from-...

mstade 7y ago

I too find it inappropriate to use a drug that hasn't first been properly tested by the president. Do lead the way, president Trump! :o)

donohoe 7y ago

most powerful nation on this planet That was true once. I doubt it’s true today.

belorn 7y ago

Reading down the comments on this thread, there is a big question. How did this person acquire the drug? It seems to be a controlled substance, ie a prescription drug for malaria, so what happened? Did they also happen to be diagnosed for malaria? In times like this we should advocate for more information and getting facts out.

filoleg 7y ago
Reading the details, it seems like the person in question used chloroquine that was acquired in form of an aquarium cleaner. Definitely not something meant to be consumed by humans.
- belorn 7y ago
  That raises many more questions, like what other horrible toxic chemicals a aquarium cleaner product has. Drain cleaners are infamous known for being used in suicide, and recall it being mentioned on medical shows as one of the most nasty thing someone can put into their body.

nethergh0st 7y ago

I watched all of the press conferences. He never recommended it. He said that it showed promise and he had high hopes that it would work. One day he even clearly said that it might or it might not work. This is hardly what I call a recommendation. The point was to give the American people some hope that we are on the right track to finding something that helps.

privatewindow 7y ago
I watched them all too and he said no such thing. It doesn't matter to the HN crowd though because Orange Man Bad! He could save babies from drowning in a river and it still wouldn't matter to this lot here. Lately, I have completely rethought the idea of what intelligence truly is. I used to think engineers were smart but I no longer do. There too many DUMB engineers on HN and in the valley. Cue ban in 3, 2, 1...

partiallypro 7y ago

Even if this were approved for use, do you honestly think ODs won't happen? One of the most common drug deaths is from Tylenol.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

hnburnsy 7y ago

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health hospita

teddyvangogh 7y ago
---------------------------------------- BREAKING NEWS: CHLOROQUINE CURES CORONAVIRUS BUT DOES NOT CURE STUPIDITY. ---------------------------------------
- dang 7y ago
  We've banned this account for posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
mirimir 7y ago
There's an important detail missing: the dose. I gather that the therapeutic dose is on the order of 500 mg/day. So did they eat 10x that, 100x that, or what?
- JulianMorrison 7y ago
  Given it's a bulk cleaning product, they'd need some damn finely calibrated scales to measure out anything more precise than "a pinch". Which clearly isn't good when 3x the clinical dose will land you in hospital.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    I just bought an electronic scale with 10 mg accuracy for $30, so hey.

root_axis 7y ago

I think it's a stretch to pin this particular death on Trump. He never suggested or advised people self-medicate prescription drugs. This was just a scared uneducated couple that made a terrible mistake.

cheese4242 7y ago
Agreed. Also, this wasn't even somebody taking too much of a prescribed drug. The man who died drank aquarium cleaner.

privatewindow 7y ago

I agree! Orange Man Bad.

gulli1010 7y ago

It is also the recommended treatment in some European countries https://epidemio.wiv-isp.be/ID/Documents/Covid19/COVID-19_InterimGuidelines_Treatment_ENG.pdf https://epidemio.wiv-isp.be/ID/Documents/Covid19/COVID-19_In...

qwerty456127 7y ago

I am an extremely pro-self-medication (implying every literate person should have basic medical education knowing how does their body function and how to maintain it optimally) and anti-scheduling person yet hell yeah I agree - people whom many people believe in, especially the officials like the freakin president should quadruple-check before saying anything what can be risky. Billions of people listen to him, a huge portion of them is not particularly bright, he should take that in account. Ideally it should be illegal for an official to say anything that is not scientifically correct.

pbreit 7y ago

It's a prescription drug (unless you're ingesting the aquarium cleaner). No one is recommending self-medication. Two people having a bad reaction suggests highly improper usage. Do you dislike it mainly because Trump mentioned it?

lawn 7y ago

In the movie Contagion (2011) there's an influencer promoting an untested medicine during a global pandemic. It was quite scary and upsetting and all too real. But now we have the president of the United States recommending you to make your own drug cocktail during a global pandemic. If someone had written that in the script it would've been thrown out as too unreal.