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Ask HN: What work can be done quarantined with a toddler?

• xenocyon 7y ago
  IMHO, at toddler age it's not possible to simultaneously work as childcare provider / preschool teacher and software engineer (or anything else for that matter). That's why we have childcare workers. I agree with the comment saying to focus on working during your toddler's sleep hours. Get done what you can and don't worry excessively about how this isn't enough. Employers need to dial down expectations during this crisis - it's the price to pay for living in a society. If it's any consolation, the economy - including your employer - is being affected in many ways and your reduced productivity during this time is only one effect of many that none of us have any control over.
  • throwaway46345 7y ago
    > Employers need to dial down expectations during this crisis - it's the price to pay for living in a society. What would you do though when employers expect full working weeks, or for people to take holiday time or unpaid leave if they can't work the full week.
    • the_jeremy 7y ago
      Raise hell. Everyone in your company with kids is going through the same thing. Surely there have to be enough people in your company who can empathize to say fuck that. Google has had walkouts over way less.
      • lonelappde 7y ago
        Why should your employer pay you 100% for 50% work? Are customers paying 100% for 50% product? Why should everyone except your peer group take the haircut?
        • eggsmediumrare 7y ago
          Taking advantage of an opportunity to pay your workers 50% less if your company is doing fine feels kinda greasy.
        • pests 7y ago
          I don't say I agree but people have different length hair
    • lubujackson 7y ago
      Honestly? Bumble through as best you can. A week from now all of this will look very different. Expectations need to catch up with reality.
• btkramer9 7y ago
  On a similar note can anyone provide insight on what's possible when working from home with kids aged newborn to preschool? As someone who would like to work from home and start a family in the near future it looks like I may need to choose one or the other (stay at home parent or remote worker). Ideally if I could do both, I could me more involved in my child's life and not sacrifice income. Maybe a part time remote job is doable?
  • jimmyswimmy 7y ago
    By 10 they're able to work for extended periods with minimal help. By 7 or 8, a schedule will get the kids to only interrupt you every half hour or so. Before then it's luck of the draw. Newborns and toddlers are impossible. Lovely things but they require constant attention. I think it's not possible to hold a regular work schedule until your kids hit 5.
  • meheleventyone 7y ago
    With newborns my wife and I tried to give each other a couple of hours a day to have some time off. That was about the limit. We were lucky that here kids get to go to great kindergartens from 18 months. True normalcy in that both are sleeping through the night in their own beds most of the time took until the youngest was three.
  • VLM 7y ago
    My experience with WFH when my teens were much younger, is that a laptop with 100% wifi is required, and toddlers building lego or similar isn't really any more distracting than an open office environment. Probably less distracting in that toddlers are somewhat more predictable than coworkers. If you work in an open office environment you'll expect WFH will be hyper productive due to lack of distractions and then get very disappointed that you'll lose 50% of those gains by toddler interruption. In practice, note you're still ahead of the open office people talking about sports and Trump derangement syndrome and plans for partying this weekend and sex and relationships and pop culture for hours on end, just not going to be as far ahead of them as you expected/hoped. You have to get good at short term budgeting of attention. Its rare to have a license plate stamping job of continuous 100% effort required for precisely 8 hours per day or whatever. Work on diagnosing the tricky bug report or new architecture design during nap time after lunch, I had a solid hour or more to concentrate uninterrupted. I can do comparatively mindless "TPS report header changes" for hours in the morning while refereeing toddler arguments about who took my lego piece. I can write a perfectly good status report email during a Thomas the Tank Engine episode, for example. I find the mandatory time discipline is actually useful in that it prevents wasting too much time on things that don't technically require the optimization. Could I spend an extra two hours on that power point that management is going to completely modify anyway? Yeah, I could, and in the office I would, but at home, the kids want me to play catch for ten minutes outside, and it was just busywork anyway. In the office my doctor advised me a long time ago to stand up and walk around every hour for leg circulation. I've also avoided carpal tunnel that way, or maybe its the weight lifting. At home I probably spent 1/12 to 1/6 of my time supervising the kids. Productivity really didn't change. For your own health you should probably be taking breaks often anyway, so having the kids around isn't that bad. Nobody ever complained about being too healthy and not taking breaks is unhealthy.
• bluedays 7y ago
  Find peace in the fact that they won't fire you because they don't want to do interviews right now and just do the best that you can.
• nopinsight 7y ago
  Would hiring someone known to be careful and can stay safe from COVID to help babysit the toddler be a possibility? Many are looking for jobs now. It could be good for both sides.
  • Insanity 7y ago
    I don't think anyone should be considered safe from the virus, they can always get it after you have hired them.
    • DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
      How about a live-in nanny? That might allow you to get bye with just a one-time additional opportunity for infection. After that, he/she would be a member of your household for the rest of the quarantine.
      • igetspam 7y ago
        We just put our nanny on furlough. I'm going to keep sending her partial payment because we really value her. We not-quite-jokingly offered to have her move in for a while but she has kids and that's not really possible. If she didn't have kids, we'd actually be a lot less hesitant about having her come. Since hers are 13 and 16 and are both in the "I don't care about things" phase of life, we don't trust that they won't be an avenue for possible infection. My wife has immune issues and my daughter is 2.5, which means it's not worth any additional risk. I let my coworkers know that we'll be load sharing on parenting duties (my wife has chronic pain issues or it probably wouldn't be necessary) and that I'll do my best to not let it impact productivity too much. Fortunately _everything_ is being delayed so my launch is pushed out too.
      • Insanity 7y ago
        fair enough, might minimize the risk but not eliminate it. (contracting it before they live with you)
  • akeck 7y ago
    If they get it after you hire them, you (really your insurance company(ies) ) could be on the hook for liability. Even if your insurance covers the claim, your rates could go through the roof going forward.
• jimmyswimmy 7y ago
  Shift your schedule. Use nap time to get work done. Work after they go to bed. Putting the kids on a schedule has helped us tremendously but will have limited efficacy for a toddler. If all else fails, balance screen time for the kid against your use of time off. It's really hard.
  • larrymyers 7y ago
    I second the suggestion for time shifting. I'm in the same boat with young kids, and I've started waking up 2 hours before they do. It allows me to get much of my daily work out of the way before our house wakes up. If you can find a way to condense your normal workload into 5 hour days it's possible. With no commute, less meetings, and less distractions it's manageable so far for me. Beyond that being able to get the kids adjusted to a stable new routine is crucial. If they know what to expect everyday you'll hopefully find your time not getting sucked away by meltdowns and behavior issues you weren't expecting. Also, please don't feel guilty devoting time to your kids right now while "School at Home" is the new normal. Being able to give my kids undivided attention with their education has been a pleasantly positive upside of the current situation. Find ways to enjoy it while you can. Also, make sure you talk to your direct manager and leadership team, I hope you find that everybody is trying to adjust right now. Not only are many of us trying to juggle the new job of home school parent, there's also the added mental and emotion stress that comes along the with the fact that we're dealing with global pandemic that has upended our normal lives.
  • divbzero 7y ago
    Really hard indeed. I too have been time shifting, but balanced against this is our responsibility to stay somewhat well rested for the sake of health.
  • deeths 7y ago
    Yeah, sleep time is key for getting things done with kids and toddlers. If your toddler isn't napping much or your kids are staying up late, a sleep consultant can help you reset their schedules (most will handle all the advising over the phone). This is one of those things that most parents think is a joke, or that their kids just won't go on a schedule, or that they can figure it out themselves until they actually deal with a professional. It makes a huge difference. If your kids sleeping on a schedule is the difference between being effective at your job or not, it's definitely worth trying.
• kick 7y ago
  Have you tried giving the toddler something to do? A lot of the problem with young children "requiring constant attention" tends to just be a lack of things for them to pay attention to. One way to try and mitigate it is by giving them a GBA or DS (preferably the former, because they're harder to break, and certainly not a 3DS for a variety of reasons). This also has the really neat benefit of helping them bootstrap reading skills. Movies usually don't work, because anything that doesn't require you to move (even just your hands, like with a handheld console) will cause restlessness. You can probably take a few hours at first to teach her how to pronounce letters and put them together if you haven't already, after they figure out how to read, they require significantly less immediate attention.
  • reverend_gonzo 7y ago
    Giving toddlers video games or movies stunts their brain development, their attention span, and is a terrible idea. The thing that infants and toddlers want and need more than anything is loving attention from their parents or other adult figures.
    • kick 7y ago
      Giving toddlers video games or movies stunts their brain development, their attention span, and is a terrible idea. There isn't substantial evidence for the view that video games stunt brain development in toddlers, and they've been shown to have a positive effect for older children: https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2013-4021 https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2013-4021 Further, given that video game therapy has been shown to be successful in mitigating ADHD, your claim of video games universally negatively impacting attention is also patently false. The thing that infants and toddlers want and need more than anything is loving attention from their parents or other adult figures. This is practically parenting-magazine pseudoscience, and taken to its implicit conclusion is incredibly harmful. Toddlers do not need constant attention from authority figures. They need some, not a helicopter, and they need external stimulus. Toddlers are not infants.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
• pseudoramble 7y ago
  This is a team member/team lead perspective. So this may not be what you're interested in. I think the team members themselves should be fine. In normal conditions, they should mostly be able to function and keep moving forward without strict and constant guidance. And we're all feeling some degree of pressure right now. So at least team mates should get that leeway will be needed. A few points: * Be sure to be clear with the team. It's reasonable to need some leeway, but just state it clearly. You may even get volunteers to handle some of your typical technical responsibilities. Good for them, good for you! * Give other team mates leeway too. Odds are they are in similar situations. So if somebody seems behind or there are just more issues than normal, don't assume bad intent. It's probably similar to your situation.
• lqet 7y ago
  I tried working at night, but found that to be quite difficult as you will be very tired from taking care of the child during the day. Working next to a toddler (in my case: 12 months old) can work, but only if they have something to play with which requires they full concentration. As soon as your child realizes that you are doing something which seems to require your concentration, it will stop whatever it is doing and will try to see what it is. I think the most promising thing to try is to go to bed together with them and work in the morning until they are awake.
  • lanstin 7y ago
    Exactly. It's possible, but I did this for like six months or something and I swear I aged five years.
• TallGuyShort 7y ago
  >> Should I consider giving up my position as lead to someone who has no children during this crisis? You may still be able to retain your leadership position (assuming you want to keep it) and make this a win-win. Having someone else take over as lead can be a hit to your own career progress, and I think it's likely they would still struggle just stepping into all your new duties while everyone is distributed. Don't abdicate entirely, and instead delegate certain responsibilities to team members if you know they're in a position to step up a little right now. You continue to lead through the crisis. Your team members can grow in a way that doesn't overwhelm them either. I don't know a lot about your situation, but I suspect this would be smoother for everyone involved. Don't feel bad about this. Yes, we in Hacker News-related industries are especially privileged right now. But your kids need you, and everyone is making adjustments right now.
• jmcgough 7y ago
  I think most people would be sympathetic to your situation, and are having their lives impacted in different ways right now by the pandemic. Have you shared these thoughts with your boss, or with your team? They might be able to help you come up with a way to share the burden until life returns to normalcy. Definitely delegate as much as you can - you're right, you'll burn out if you have to be a full time parent as well as a full time team lead.
• saalweachter 7y ago
  1. Most people already have a perfectly good babysitter in their house which cannot transmit COVID-19. Fire up some Mister Rogers and Reading Rainbow for a couple of hours when you need some time. 2. Have you tried occasionally putting the first grader in charge of the toddler for a few spans of time? Obviously a first grader can't babysit, but younger kids are usually happy to do what slightly-older kids tell them, and slightly-older kids usually enjoy the devoted followers. Regarding what you owe your employer, coworkers and team, ultimately you need to talk to them about it. You may discover that even though you feel less productive, everyone else is in roughly the same boat. Even those without toddlers will be suffering from the normal WFH distractions and "disaster fatigue" from checking the news every 20 minutes. Also give it some time, to see what happens both in your work habits / stress and the outside world over the next few weeks.
  • watwut 7y ago
    Not every toddler will stick watching that long. And when they do, there is price to pay in terms of behavior after. Meaning, you get him hyper, nervous and hard to control after two hours of watching.
• burlesona 7y ago
  TLDR; little kids (including toddlers) don't like boredom, but it is possible to teach them to make their own fun without relying on you for entertainment. If you do that, you'll have a lot more time for yourself. I've got three young kids, and I'm in the same situation you're in. I'll spare you the long backstory of how I came to this conclusion, but over time I've learned that there's a big gap between the amount of attention young children want and will ask for (which is effectively infinite) versus what they actually need to be happy. The real problem is they're humans, they don't like being bored, they don't know how to deal with it on their own, but they learn really fast that you are a great source of entertainment. Once I came to see the problem this way, I realized I needed to help teach and train them to self-entertain when they are bored. That turned out to be easier than I thought, and it helped _a lot_ with the problem of being able to get work done with kids around. The best way I found to train them is essentially to create a suitable play environment (in our little apartment this is just the kids room, with anything I don't want them getting into placed on high shelves in the closet), set out a small sample of toys or activity (like paper and crayons, or stuffed animals), and then just sit there. If you are more boring than the stuffed animals, they'll start playing with the stuffed animals :) Repeat this over time and they get much better at playing happily on their own for long stretches of time. Note that the younger they are, the more you need to be physically around for this to work. If you just plop a toddler in a play pen and leave, they're not likely to make it very long, because they also have separation anxiety and don't like being alone. They need the reassurance of an adult (or older child may also work) nearby to feel safe. But once they feel safe, their only problem is boredom. So by being around but extremely boring, you help them learn to solve this problem on their own. Being boring doesn't mean cold-smoldering the kids, just kind of politely humor them without really engaging. I've found that "taking a nap" is extremely effective - just sit and rest, they know what a nap is, they don't take it personally. Sometimes you even get an actual power nap in haha. To some degree you also have to put up with whining and fussing during the adjustment period. They're likely to feel frustration that their entertainment source has failed. Also, doing this training will probably be boring for you too. But the silver lining is once they start to play autonomously it actually becomes very entertaining to watch! One last thought: as far as work goes, I think you (and your employer) will also need to accept that a strictly focused 9-5 schedule isn't realistic. Young kids need help with basic needs (food, bladder, hygiene), and there's nothing you can do that will get them to chill out autonomously for 9 hours straight. But if you teach them to self-entertain, even a toddler can go for 60-90 minutes, which is enough to get a lot of things done (and bigger kids can go longer). The way I see it, I can either get up really early and knock out a ~3 hour focus block before they're up, or stay up late and do it after they're asleep. I generally prefer late. That's my key productivity time, for things that require more than one full hour of dedicated focus to make good progress. I know it's hard. Good luck!
• lanstin 7y ago
  What I did is go to sleep when the toddler does and then wake up at four and do coding work till toddler woke up. Then keep naps going for as long as possible. Work a bit (email/communication) in the evening to be prepped to be productive at four. (And mind you, I'm not an early waker, but desperation breeds solutions). Also, can the first grader give you blocks of time when they are in charge of the toddler? My younger kids worshipped the elders at that age.
• throwaway12038 7y ago
  I'm in the exact same (3 and 6) position. My neighbors and I have created a small isolation group. We all are sheltering in place as if we were one family. It's been working out on sharing the load. We had a discussion about the severity and likelihood of an infection in our group and that if that happened we'd all be on quarantine because of the shared exposure. This has meant not sending my child to daycare even though it's open. It's also meant getting up 2 hours earlier to get started earlier. I also sent a schedule to my entire team so they knew exactly when I was teaching our kids and when I'm available. We as a group are trying to balance our civic duty with a rational understanding of this disease. If I didn't have that I'd have emailed my team that I was reducing my hours from 8-> 4-6 and I'd have been very clear. I cannot make up enough time to get everything done. I'd have used vacation or sick leave where possible and weathered this storm. If we stop doing the shared community I will do that. And as a Lead, I'd be ok with anyone on my team doing that. This disease does not affect everyone equally. We have to take on additional burden for others where possible and be accommodating for those who can't.
  • stef25 7y ago
    Does nobody in that isolation group come in contact with anyone but people in the group? Cause all it takes is one of those to enter a supermarket, get infected and your cordon sanitaire is busted. We specifically cancelled our babysitter and cleaning person because of this (increasing our workload even more ...) I still go out for groceries and a jog but at least the possible infections points has been reduced from 3 to 1.
    • throwaway12038 7y ago
      Everyone in the group is WFH. The only increase is in grocery store visits which we try to minimize with venmo. We too canceled our Daycare and Cleaners (although we continue to pay them because we want to support local businesses and our pay has not been interrupted). Everyone else in the group has done the same. EDITED: You are 100% correct in that this is limited to the weakest point in the chain which is whoever breaks the rules and unavoidable exposure (grocery store visits and gas station visits). But what is that percentage increase? I suspect our chance of getting COVID-19 from the grocery store is 3x whatever going to the grocery store is. Which we all use the same stores and the same people are there so if there is an infection there it's likely less that 3x due to that fact. You can't reduce your exposure 100% you can minimize as much as possible while trying to keep the economy going as much as possible. This is the balance we've struck. If we couldn't do this, we wouldn't get the hours in we need to in order to continue to pay the cleaners/daycare. I'll also point out I'm not in a shelter in place state. If that guidance comes out I'm not sure this will keep going. We re-evaluate every week. EDIT: If anyone in the group wasn't WFH and wasn't grocery store only operation my family wouldn't do this. We'd deem that as too much exposure.
• lacker 7y ago
  A toddler plus a first-grader equals a full-time job watching them. If you're splitting child care with your wife, I think it would be a reasonable expectation for your output to be about 50% what it usually is. It depends on your situation, but it doesn't mean you should give up your position as team lead, necessarily. It could be hard for someone else to get up to speed on how to handle your responsibilities; everyone's at least remote and other people probably have distractions too. See if you can delegate half of your work to other people, or push back on schedules, and keep the highest-impact leadership work on your plate.
  • NanoWar 7y ago
    This! Thanks for the heads up.
• x0x0 7y ago
  So, I don't think you're going to like this answer. My assumption is corona lockdowns -- whether formal everyone stays at home nationally, devolving to the responsible states, or devolving even further to responsible employers -- is going to last at least 6 months. We'll see some data when China attempts to relax restrictions. I'd also assume that all the stuff folks normally do to for their kids for the summer period while they aren't in school -- ie all the camps -- are basically not going to happen, so you're going to be doing this until at least labor day. As a cxx, we can / are definitely expecting some choppiness over the next couple weeks while everyone figures out how things work with us all working from home with the entire family home. Given the economic guesses above, an inability to put in a reasonable workday is likely going to be a problem for you given the length of time I'm guessing we're going to be doing this. It also depends on how well capitalized your employer is. Second, we (not saying my company, but definitely the US) are going to see layoffs. My company has already frozen hiring, to the obvious intent of not having layoffs and making cash last as long as possible. The US already has skyrocketing unemployment claims and an easily visible ongoing devastation of small business. The Republicans in the senate appear to have no interest in directly and immediately replacing the wages of everyone the government and/or corona are not allowing to work. This adds up to, most likely, a whopping recession. You're a family man, so you need to figure out how to keep yourself out of the line of fire, and my advice would be if that means working tired... you should work tired. NB: I'm not saying this is right or fair, just probably the best plan unless you have large cash savings. At my company, we're figuring out how to support parents and, to be honest, we don't have a solid plan right now. A lot hinges on how deep the recession is going to be. We're already pricing in large sales falls. Again -- as mentioned above -- short term choppiness / reduction of work is fine, but if it is long term, and corona requires we work at home for an extended period of time, we're not in a financial position to weather a recession, pay full wages, and have a large falloff in work output.
  • dominotw 7y ago
    > directly and immediately replacing the wages of everyone the government and/or corona are not allowing to work wonder what happens if govt just pays everyone for 6 months ( per your estimate). Wouldn't it just merely cause inflation since no actual goods are being allowed to be produced and people will be willing to offer more and more money for limited supplies = inflation?
• mikekij 7y ago
  I'm the founder and CEO of a software company that is remote-first. The shutdown of schools due to COVID-19 has meant that many of our engineers now have kids bouncing off the walls while they're trying to work. I have school aged kids as well, and their constant presence is lovely, but a bit distracting. As a manger, I totally expect that peoples' productivity will suffer. This is an unprecedented situation in our modern history, and the temporary decrease in productivity should not make or break the success of your employer. Do what you can, and don't drive yourself into the ground in the process. If your manager is an empathetic human being, they will understand the situation.
• commandlinefan 7y ago
  Well, if it's any consolation: my kids are teenagers, so are fully autonomous (I have to make sure they get out of bed and eat something, but that's about it), but I have many, many co-workers who are in the same position as you. I, and from what I can tell everybody else where I work, am sympathetic to the difficult position people like you are in, and are doing our best to pick up some of the slack when and where we can.
• agentultra 7y ago
  I am in the same boat. 4 year old and a very active 7 year old. My partner, as I'm lucky to have one, is also home full time as her place of business has been temporarily shuttered. I'm a software engineer and she teaches fitness and dance. Between us I think we're doing okay. We're not going hardcore on structure. We're being relaxed on TV/videogame time (we usually only watch TV on weekends for an hour at most and video games are usually played together). We swap responsibility around. I take breaks to horse around with the kids in the yard or go for a walk around the neighborhood. We share meal preparation, chores, etc. While I need longer stretches of focused time I also dedicate a part of the day for household distractions. We're also keeping the neighbors in the loop. Some of the parents, such as myself, have offered to take the kids out for a regular "recess" during the afternoon. We keep our distance as usual but go for walks, kick a ball in the field, count birds, have races, etc. And at work I keep the team up to date on our situation. Everyone is in the same boat more or less. Some have high-risk dependents. Some have kids. Some are simply not comfortable working from home full time. What I've learned about working from home for a period of about 5 years was: don't worry about the structure of your day. Wake up at a regular time, work out if you can, and realize that nobody can see you -- only your results. You can find a routine that works for you and yours. I hope most employers are smart enough to know that for some people this may mean less output but it can also mean more. Flexibility and responsibility are key. As long as you're communicating with your team I don't see the problem of fitting work around life. I find that without the stress and expectations of being "on the clock" enables me to have more opportunities for my mind to wander which often leads to insights that solve my problems that I'm working on.
• atemerev 7y ago
  I have the same situation, and I mostly work at night, and put around 4 hours (but I am more productive with it than with 8 hours in the office -- zero distraction helps). Meetings are a problem, though.
• DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Arrange your house to be as safe as possible for the toddler and to provide them food independence. Make meals that everyone consumes, but keep snacks and drinks on hand that the toddler can manage on their own and which you are comfortable letting them consume to their heart's content. Waiting on the child hand and foot to feed them and control their diet seems to be a large part of the burden. I never did that. Kid snacks go on the lowest shelves of the pantry and the lowest shelves of the fridge door. Let them have some limited amounts of junkie snacks. Otherwise, keep healthy stuff around that's easy for them to get themselves and don't stringently police what they eat. Let them get it themselves. Explain that if they spill something, they should come get you so you can clean it up and they will not be in trouble. Do not be cross with them when they come get you. Thank them for getting you and clean it up. I kept ten percent real fruit juice Capri Sun in the house. My toddlers learned to stick the straw in themselves. If it fell over, it dribbled a bit. It wasn't a big spill. For a time, I kept hot dogs in the lowest shelf of the fridge door. Toddlers need more fats than adults and I could remember eating cold Vienna sausage out of the can as a toddler and liking it. I would split the hotdog pack in half and put one half in an upper shelf out of reach. I would pre open the other so it was possible for a toddler to open it and put it in the bottom shelf of the fridge door. I sometimes kept cold leftover noodles in the fridge and parmesan or Romano cheese. Cold noodles and cheese is a decent snack and my kid liked it. Make long homemade tapes or play lists or whatever. I was working with tape recordings off the TV. I had purchased videos that played for as little as 30 minutes. I got constantly interrupted if I let them watch those. A six hour tape of curated content meant I was comfortable letting them be only lightly supervised and they actually left me alone for more than fifteen minutes. I would put a tape in and set a fresh snack and drink on the coffee table so they had easy access. When the youngest got old enough to fight with the older child, I spent a week sitting on the floor with them actively teaching them how to play together so they would stop fighting over toys and the like. If the kids get along, they have unfettered access to reasonably healthy snacks and they are kept safely entertained in a physically safe home, it's possible to sometimes be left alone by them. This was often the only way I got any sleep. I wouldn't quit. It's a global pandemic. Other people are not likely to be more productive than you. Kids or no kids, everyone is finding this challenging.
• oxymoran 7y ago
  I have an almost three year old I have been watching by myself while working full time as an auto insurance claims adjuster for the past week. It’s not as hard as I imagined but would be much more difficult if I had to spend a lot of time on the phone because there is no chance of getting quiet for more than a few minutes at a time. I bribe him with fruit snacks and go play with him every couple hours and so far so good.
• anonymous93747 7y ago
  We’re doing a split schedule, with playing alone time at the transitions. Starting with just 15 minutes at a time, but hoping that we can increase that to something that doesn’t burn us out before we get burnt out.
• saadatq 7y ago
  > I am well aware that I have the privilege of working in a career that is not already obliterated by this crisis. I am very sympathetic to others who are more severely impacted by all this and the economic damage from this is immeasurable. I still have my own concerns as does everyone else.. thank you for leading with this.
• epicureanideal 7y ago
  Some things that might provide the kids some distractions... 1) Nintendo Switch with Yoshi's Crafted World (easiest game for kids), buy an extra controller because I think it only comes with 1... earliest age for this would be about 3, 3.5, and would need some in-game assistance from their older sibling (which the game provides mechanisms for) 2) iPads with games, including coloring games ... even a 2 year old can enjoy iPad games 3) Netflix cartoons 4) Amazon Prime cartoons 5) Kinetic sand (https://www.amazon.com/Only-Kinetic-Sand-Folding-2lbs/dp/B01N75XNPS https://www.amazon.com/Only-Kinetic-Sand-Folding-2lbs/dp/B01... plus an extra http://amazon.com/Kinetic-Sand-Pounds-Beach-Packaging/dp/B01a9K8KIUY http://amazon.com/Kinetic-Sand-Pounds-Beach-Packaging/dp/B01..., possibly doubling both for 2 kids) 6) MegaBlocks (https://www.amazon.com/Mega-Bloks-80-Piece-Building-Classic/dp/B007GE75HY https://www.amazon.com/Mega-Bloks-80-Piece-Building-Classic/...) I would buy 2x per kid to ensure they have plenty to build with 7) small dry erase boards and colored dry erase markers 8) YouTube Premium (remove the ads so they don't interrupt their cartoons)... for example, they might like Blippi https://www.youtube.com/user/BlippiVideos https://www.youtube.com/user/BlippiVideos I'm not saying little kids should play video games all the time, but it does give them something entertaining to focus their attention on.
  • stef25 7y ago
    Last week was vacation for me, planned a long time ago. I ditched my plans and watched the kids while my wife worked from home, secluded upstairs. When the weather was crap we turned to TV but at the end of the day the kids (and myself) were just zombies. With toddlers it's hard to stop ("No, one more!") and it's hard to get going again after 2 hrs of cartoons. I find it best to do as much as you can without screens and only when you're totally out of ideas or they start getting tired toward the end of the day, you turn to TV to zone out for the rest of the evening.
    • saalweachter 7y ago
      We do "Saturday morning cartoons" (as in, Saturday mornings is the designated time for watching cartoons), and one trick I've found is that switching TV shows every episode or 2 really helps with attitude and the eventual "well, that's enough TV for now". If we binge-watch one cartoon, after three or four episodes we have a cranky toddler who just wants to keep watching that same show all day, but by cycling through different programs we can do cartoons in the morning and then switch to crafts, playing in the yard, etc, without (much of) a fuss afterwards.
• semessier 7y ago
  I had a pretty good and productive time so far with a baby that frequently needs attention and is noisy. Output including programming is _above silent/regular office environment. Trying to reasons why this is the case, maybe ADHD plays a role.
• a3n 7y ago
  What work? Data gathering. Put sensors on your kid, to track movement and stillness. And whatever else you can think of. It's a time/motion study!
• simplecto 7y ago
  Do not give up your role. Managing though this (while putting family first) will make you the leader you need to be (for everyone). I think you are on the right track with "divide and conquer" strategy. Delegate out that which cannot be done on a mobile app or in a phone call. My own experience is that it is a checkerboard of family-time and business-time. Thing is that we all have a good laugh when the little ones are goofing off in the background -- it is a shared reality that we can only laugh at.
• chachan 7y ago
  Same here, developer with a 2.5yo kid at home. 1. I do not recommend screen time for kids - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/how-does-screen-time-affect-kids-brains-the-first-results-of-a-landmark-study-are-alarming https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/how-does-screen-time-... 2. I bought a dozen of books, like fair stories, animals where pictures can put your kid to imagine, question and discovery new things. He spends a lot of time here 3. I bought a small speaker (kid-proof?) that I use to put playlists for kids, with time he started singing the songs and that was just a way to spend time for him 4. I put ideas in his head like "wow, this is Spiderman" (while showing it from my phone) then I bought a Spiderman toy and now is one of his favorites toys 5. Pla-doh, just make sure he understand is not something to eat or to mix it with other objects 6. Crayola stuff - https://www.crayola.com/athome https://www.crayola.com/athome 7. Audiobooks or podcasts for kids Again, please do not use screen. I did it for few months as an option to let him discover new topics and he woke up in the middle of the night crying and screaming about stuff he watched
  • jimmaswell 7y ago
    I have to wonder if those effects are only from being glued to brainless videos and other unproductive consumption rather than engaging with games that promote problem solving and hand-eye coordination without constant distractions and gambling mechanics - Nintendo is good for this.
  • devnullbyte 7y ago
    regarding screen time, from the source you provide: "We don't know if it's being caused by the screen time," said Dowling. "We don't know yet if it's a bad thing. It won't be until we follow them over time that we will see if there are outcomes that are associated with the differences that we're seeing in this single snapshot."
  • thebruce87m 7y ago
    Mr. Men and Little Miss books are great. 80+ books and my 3 year old loves them.
• jkestner 7y ago
  It's hard to generalize advice; everyone's kids are different. One of many things that frees up some time for us is FaceTime with grandparents. Teaching, reading stories, etc. We also have a lot of kids' books on tape. Nothing wrong with PBS Kids either. I think that everyone's expectations can loosen a bit right now, as parents, as workers. Have you asked your boss what reasonable expectations are right now?
• D13Fd 7y ago
  Consider hiring a babysitter to help if that's still an option in your area. That's what we did, starting today. It's working out so far, and it's significantly less expensive than our daycare was. I found that there was overwhelming supply vs. limited demand, in my area at least, so it was super easy to find someone. There were a number of recently laid off people who seem eager for the work even if you can't afford high wages, so it's a win-win. You both get to be productive and earn money.
  • shostack 7y ago
    "still allowed" vs "increases risk of transmission" is important to consider here. Unless it's a live in nanny that is sheltering in place with you, then you are increasing the risk of infection for your household, or potentially many outside it if you are say, asymptomatic and transmit to the babysitter who then goes out to other places or households. I realize for some this is a choice between doing what is necessary to not get fired so you don't lose food and shelter. For many on HN that is not the case.
• sifar 7y ago
  I was thinking about raising this subject too. I am in the same situation - two kids 4 and 8. Me and my wife are both working from home. Few things we do 1) wake up early, get most of the work done while they are asleep - usually 3-4 hrs. And another couple during their afternoon nap time. 2) split the rest of the day between the two of us so that one of us works, and the other looks after/plays with them. 3) We have quite a few books/board games/legos in the house which helps. Also give them drawing/coloring time. I would say stock up on coloring supplies and give them a free hand. 4) we limit their TV time to 1-1.5 max hr per day. No other screen time. 5) With a toddler it is really difficult as they need constant attention. One thing we do is to encourage the elder one to involve the younger one in his pretend play. That works out for some time :). Even with all this, along with the household chores, it is really tough to make it through the day. One more suggestion is to clearly delineate your work time from your home time. Avoid working while having coffee/lunch/snack, talking to your wife. These small moments sap into you which you could otherwise use to recharge. Over the day, over many days, they add up.
• stef25 7y ago
  Here's our plan for both parents working from home with a 1 and 3 year old, to get 16hrs of work done. - First shift: 6 AM - 12PM - Second shift: 12PM - 6PM - Third shift: 6PM - 8PM - Fourth shift: 8PM - 10PM You could do 4x shifts of 4 hrs, alternate the schedules each day, whatever works best. Getting up at 5:30 may sound harsh but it's not that bad if you all you have to do is grab a coffee and head to your desk. Personally I love early starts. Don't try working and taking care of kids at the same time, it's pretty much pointless. They also deserve better than just being dumped in front of TV. Plan & cook meals ahead. The quicker it's ready and the less cleanup the better.
• throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pinzhi-Clear-Flower-Display-Wooden/dp/B074RKZY9W/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pinzhi-Clear-Flower-Display-Wooden/... Repurposed
• LukeEF 7y ago
  4 kids (11, 9, 7, 3). WFH for last 10 days. Wife is a journalist with a national newspaper. And trying to get a esoteric database startup off the ground (TerminusDB). Basically impossible. Over the weekend I assembled a school in one of the rooms. Teacher's desk, 'lockers' and all. Allowed the kids to name it (Sugarcane Parish National School) and made them line up to enter in the morning. Wife is class teacher in the morning and I am principal with afternoon duties. Made eldest son head boy. Enforced yard time. It was still chaos and I found it hard to do concentrated work, but a good start is half the battle. Tomorrow is another day.
  • ThisIsTheWay 7y ago
    Hang in there!
• lubujackson 7y ago
  5 y.o. and a 3 y.o. here. The key is to have one unique, anchoring activity each day - paint a rock, cook a loaf of bread, something. Also, we took a tip from preschool and create structured time. Kids playing in a room is one thing, but put them in a room and say "ok guys, one hour of 'free time'!" and suddenly they are excited to play. Don't just leave them alone until there is a problem. Give them a task and a reward - fold these towels or clean up your mess, then you can watch a show. Have a bigger project. Organize your spices and ask them to help. Or wash the windows, anything - getting them involved in something productive is necessary for your mental health too, so you aren't just spending all your energy trying to occupy their time aimlessly. Effecting real change (even in small ways) can help make things feel less pointless.
• JabavuAdams 7y ago
  You're not going to get more than 2-3 hours of work done, sorry. You might be able to do an hour or two after the kids are asleep, but then you won't be able to do chores and eventually you'll get tired/irritable/immuno-suppressed.
• Waterluvian 7y ago
  I've got 400sq ft of deck to clean and repaint and two very curious boys, 1 and 3. They play in the yard while I clean and prep. Sometimes the oldest comes up to help. It would have frustrated the older me who felt like there isn't enough free time to dawdle. But now I see the hyper slow progress as a form of meditation. I'm actually no longer looking forward to it being done. But at least this will be the spring I made the deck beautiful.
  • matt_the_bass 7y ago
    I get that. Yesterday I built a compost seive to go over my wheelbarrow. My almost 7 y/o helped me. It only took 3x longer than by myself. But I loved it.
• dominotw 7y ago
  Yea that sounds like tough situation, i went through it and its impossible to focus even when you aren't tending to the toddler. > Should I consider giving up my position as lead to someone who has no children during this crisis? Yea if you think this is a vaible possibility with your employer. I would say, do this for sure.
• grosales 7y ago
  Same boat as you. I have a 9 month old and a 2.5 year old. Wake up at 6am-7:30ish am to do some work. Then help with the first one until 8am and continue until 12:30pm (6hrs) Then I resume at 8pm-10pm for 8 hrs. Wife does 12:30pm-5:30pm and then does 8:30pm to 11:30pm. It's rough,.but when we are tired we will take a PTO or two. We are extremely lucky we can at least do this. It's rough but, I am learning much more about my kids and I am enjoying them as much as I can while this lasts. It's also a good time to potty train! To beat fatigue, make sure you sleep at least 7hrs and eat well. Go out to walks with your kids (just to get some air) or play in the yard. Good luck, we will all get through this and will be much better because of it.
• catherd 7y ago
  I know some people in the Philippines who normally do office task outsourcing, call center work, or language instruction who would absolutely love to get a few dollars an hour to teach or babysit kids via teleconference. And by absolutely love, I mean they would be able to buy food to eat next week. Not sure how well teleconferencing would keep a toddler distracted, but you'd probably have varying degrees of success with older kids. Could put people in touch if there is interest.
• unohoo 7y ago
  I am dealing with the exact same situation handling a 7 year and a 2 year old. Its actually worse in my case since my wife is a healthcare professional and has to be at her job - so its effectively just me looking after the 2 kids during the day. I tried working 1 week from 6-12 in the night, but was exhausted since I still had to wake up when kids woke up. This week, I am trying to do 3 hours before they wake up, another hour when the younger one naps and then finally 2 more hours once my wife is back home. Several folks in my reporting chain have similar aged kids or a tad bit older, so they are empathetic to the situation. My productivity is definitely impacted, but then these are unchartered waters. I am just trying to stay sane through the process :-)
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• pragmatic 7y ago
  Productivity is going to decrease for the immediate future. That's a given. I'm sure as a lead you've probably put in your share of unpaid overtime over your career. It's time to withdraw from that account. I think it's a major problem in this country (if not many others) that we have to go through this crises yet keep cranking away at work like nothing happened. Cut yourself some slack. Cut your team some slack (they will appreciate it). We are all human. This is a world wide crisis. It's NOT business as usual. Talk to your team, your boss, set reasonable expectations (especially for yourself) or your going to burn out fast.
• namelosw 7y ago
  God I don't have kids yet but it gives me huge amount of anxiety for just reading this thread. The Typewriter scene in Shining keeps popping up in my head... Hope you guys all good.
• deeths 7y ago
  For the first-grader (and some toddlers), you could try kids audio books. Most kids love them and it can keep them entertained for a long time and more mentally engaged than TV. Sometimes my kids just sit and listen, and other times they do other activities while they listen. Even if they get bored of the audio book, I've noticed they are much more likely to stay focused for long periods doing other activities like drawing or playing with toys if there's an audio book in the background. You can find all the children's classics in audio books. If you have an audible subscription, you can sometimes find whole children's book series for a single credit (like 19 hours of the Ramona Quimby collection). You can also check them out of many municipal libraries online. Children's podcasts are also good, and there are educational options there too. You could also give them some screen time, but try to keep it more engaging. For instance, video calls with their friends(clearly won't work long with the toddler though) or physical activities led by an instructor on the screen like kids yoga (Cosmic Kids Yoga is good) or dance. Also, anyone who's used to teaching dance, martial arts, physical training, music, foreign language tutoring, etc is really struggling now with the quarantines. Many of them are trying to continue classes and one-on-one instruction over video (or would be willing to), and they could definitely use the extra money right now if your kids have been doing one of those activities or have something they're interested in and willing to follow on the screen. While engaging screen time is not as good for them as real interaction, it seems that it is much better for them than just staring at the screen. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160715115023.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160715115023.h... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/desc.12430 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/desc.12430 https://thriving.childrenshospital.org/video-chat-babies-grandparents/ https://thriving.childrenshospital.org/video-chat-babies-gra...
• teh_infallible 7y ago
  Welcome to having to actually parent your children. It’s actually a difficult job that you can’t pawn off on a low-paid intern.
• topkai22 7y ago
  I think one of the hardest things about working from home with the kids there is having to make the choice between parenting and working. Having done WFH with small kids at least one day a week for years, you have to change your and your kids expectations about what is acceptable and about what your relationship means when you are working. You might need to do some "bad parenting"- allowing way more TV/electronics time than otherwise allowed, ignoring thing you might otherwise correct, and not engaging as the loving parent you want to be all the time. We've had to go this route in our household, and its been tough. Enlist your first grader in care as well- my 2 year old LOVES following her brother around, and my first grader loves responsibility (to a degree). See if you can get your first grader to keep your toddler out of your workspace for an hour or two a day. If you have the space, extensively childproof an area where they need less supervision. As for being a lead- one of my proudest accomplishments when I'm leading teams is to make them self-sufficient, and one of the greatest difficulties is letting go of work. At least in my world, the best teams have maximal authority and scope pushed to individuals. Can your team step up to do more on their own, especially the technical work? Possibly not, but I definitely wouldn't give up your lead position unless you find it necessary personally. These are.. interesting... times. There are no perfect answers, and all answers require trade off and sacrifice. I hope I helped though.
• oblib 7y ago
  I became a single parent when my daughter was 14 months old. I'll offer your child comes first no matter what and toddlers need constant attention. There's no getting around that. At that time I subcontracted work with a few small companies that relied heavily on the work I did. I had to explain to them there were laws against my putting her in daycare when she was ill. Being a kid she'd get fevers from all kinds of crud brought into the daycare by parents who'd dose their kids with tylenol before dropping them off at the daycare, but I refused to do that. This happened about once every 4-6 weeks. None of those companies offered to pay me more so I could afford a nanny to care for my daughter at home during work hours, but all complained they were severely affected when I didn't complete the work on their schedule and they all made a lot of money off my work, far more than enough to cover those costs. Such is life. I didn't feel it necessary for me to worry about them anymore than they worried about me and my daughter and our situation. I have no regrets about putting her first. In your case, whomever you're working for needs to adjust their expectations to the realities of your situation and you need to be at your best to keep up with just your one toddler. "As a software engineer and team lead I have both technical and administrative responsibilities." Caring for your children supersedes everything else, and by a long shot. Especially right now.
• gwbas1c 7y ago
  All kids are different: My youngest is currently a toddler, and the area where I work is large and there's so many toys that I just let her roam around. Most of the time she plays with toys but sometimes she needs to sit in my lap. Even when my wife is home watching the kids, I'll bring my youngest up to give my wife a break. When my oldest was a toddler she demanded constant attention, and she's still that way. The only way to not give her constant attention is to have her play with another child. One thing to consider is to ask your first grader to watch your toddler, and work in a room that's large enough where you are present but not stepping on each other. Most of school is babysitting anyway, so you can probably dedicate 2 to 3 hours a day for academics and be fine. Also, don't forget that toddlers need naps! My wife is an essential worker, so when she's at work I can get about an hour of uninterrupted time when my kids are down for a nap.
• taf2 7y ago
  You need to call the paw patrol. Focus on the work you can get done not the hours spent at a desk. Take plenty of breaks and spend it with your toddler. Having a 11,9 and 3 year old - all I can say is enjoy your insane toddler before they grow up. Use nap time and appease the little monster with tv to get work done. Then take breaks and play with them
• gwbas1c 7y ago
  I'm going to add another comment here: I realized that my kids are used to having our (me and my wife's) full attention when they're home. Whenever we do chores on the weekend, one of us usually plays with the kids while the other does the chore; or we do mundane chores while the kids play around us. Otherwise, our kids are in daycare full time during the week. We often drop them off late or pick them up early. Even if we do a staycation, we still drop them off for a few hours a day so they can see their friends. My point is that now that our kids are adjusting to being home, we're training them that they need to give us our space. This morning my 4-year-old daughter was in my office, and I just directly told her that I need to work and she has to play quietly by herself. She accepted that.
  • Fire-Dragon-DoL 7y ago
    Oh, that explains why I'm not seeing the same problem as other parents. My kid is 20 months old (almost 2),but it's not impacting me dramatically as some other people. Granted she is a problem sometimes, but I work from home every day, she seem to give me some space, or come play on my lap without actually needing my interaction (I love that by the way). Obviously, I don't have TWO toddlers, which seems even more scary