4 ms·

Settles on a proposition that the iPad will consume and replace the Mac. I don't agree with that position; I think the form factor of the Mac and the capabilit

by bnj 7y ago

Settles on a proposition that the iPad will consume and replace the Mac. I don't agree with that position; I think the form factor of the Mac and the capabilities of MacOS are going to continue to be relevant, even in a world where a fully featured Xcode can be run from an iPad Pro. It seems more realistic to me that apples' efforts to get catalyst to a point of usability is about enabling software to make a seamless transition to the arm architecture.

skohan 7y ago
Honestly it's hard to imagine. Laptops are an incredibly important form factor. I actually suspect the move to/inclusion of ARM in the macOS lines of product is part of the motivation behind dumping support for 32-bit apps in Catalina. By preemtively removing support for a large amount of legacy software, which will likely never be recompiled for ARM, they avoid the situation where their new machines appear much less capable than the old ones.
- mrpippy 7y ago
  Exactly. By “clearing the deck” of all APIs (and software using them) that won’t make it to ARM, they can position it as the same OS and apps, just running on a more-efficient chip. And for 90+% of Catalina-compatible apps, a recompile is all that’s needed. (And/or they’ll have an emulator)
- pjmlp 7y ago
  In the PC world, 2-1 like the Surface are taking over classical laptops.
  - wooger 7y ago
    Are they? Certainly not in sales. There was a push to make all laptops have a touchscreen a few years back, but this seems to have fizzled out, and I've seldom seen anyone use them (deliberately anyway).
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Here in Germany if you go to a local consumer shop, there aren't many classical laptops left to chose from.
DagAgren 7y ago
He does not propose that. He is merely saying that they are going to move SOME users from Mac to iPad. Not all, just some.
ekianjo 7y ago
Maybe Apple will come up with an "iPad with integrated keyboard!" and tout it as the next revolution.
m463 7y ago
They're already on the path to do that by making the Mac unusable. I tried getting Little Snitch installed on Catalina and it has to contact apple before it can be enabled. This whole "ask apple's permission" thing really annoys me.
- Veen 7y ago
  You can turn Gatekeeper off.
- zapzupnz 7y ago
  > I tried getting Little Snitch installed on Catalina and it has to contact apple before it can be enabled (A) It doesn't contact Apple for permission; it's asking you, the user, for permission to access certain aspects to prevent malicious apps from encroaching on user privacy and security — in no part of the transaction is it phoning home. Locking applications out of unfettered access to the system is nothing new nor particularly Apple-specific. Please do not spread unnecessary FUD. > This whole "ask apple's permission" thing really annoys me (B) I will direct you to point A.
  - m463 7y ago
    I don't think that's accurate. When you install little snitch, you have to go to the security and privacy pane, which should have a dialog to allow obdev.at to install a kernel extension. However, if you're not connected to the internet, that dialog doesn't seem to show up.
simonh 7y ago
Until now the speculation has been that Apple might port OSX to ARM. I think with the move to deep, rich keyboard, trackpad and mouse support in iPadOS that basically becomes an uninteresting question. It looks like iPadOS is on a trajectory to become a very capable laptop, and maybe later desktop OS. Looking at the iPad and magic keyboard in profile reminds me a bit of the ‘lamp shade’ Macs back in the day. The iPad tablet form factor will eventually hit limits in screen size. Is a 15”, 24” or even 27” tablet really feasible? If eventually the iPad becomes highly usable in docked mode with a keyboard, why not bring it out in a full clamshell or even desktop form factor? Looking at it this way ok, maybe the Mac will move to ARM, or maybe it won’t. The thing is in the long run it might not matter.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Laptops are desktops, since 2006 I haven't worked for any company where they were still actively spending money acquiring desktops. The people that required desktop like compute power either got a laptop workstation like Thinkpad W series (now P), or some server connected via RDP. Apple just needs to have a docking station on their offerings.
  - tyingq 7y ago
    "haven't worked for any company where they were still actively spending money acquiring desktops." It's still very common for companies to supply desktops to lower paid desk workers that don't work from home. The total cost is lower, fewer failures, etc.
    - llampx 7y ago
      After Coronavirus, I can see even that dwindling further. Laptops are cheap enough that TCO-wise its better to have a small, portable all-in-one solution than a desktop.
  - wolrah 7y ago
    > Apple just needs to have a docking station on their offerings. But they do, it's called Thunderbolt, and they were the first manufacturer to really buy in hard. For any laptop that can run within the 100 watt limit of USB-C charging there's little to nothing a proprietary docking solution offers compared to TB3, and even those that require more power can still use a TB dock just with one additional cable to plug in. Yes there are a lot of crappy Thunderbolt and/or USB-C docks out there, but it's not like proprietary docks were ever bug-free either. At least now you have a choice of dozens of vendors rather than being stuck with whatever the laptop OEM wants to offer, and changing model lines doesn't mean buying a whole new set of docks.
mortenjorck 7y ago
From the article: > An answer to the now age-old ARM-ed Mac question now emerges: With the emphasis on the iPad Pro as a real computer, there’s no reason for Apple to move the Mac off of trusty if perhaps less glamorous Intel processors. Does this mean that iPad Pro sales will cannibalize the Mac? We’ve long known the answer that one. It doesn’t really matter to the company as long as customers enjoy their Apple devices. I don’t think Gassée is arguing that the iPad definitively will replace the Mac, or that this is Apple's intention. I think he’s arguing that Apple is positioning the iPad in a way that it could, and that this positioning lets the Mac off the hook for an architecture transition.

by bnj 7y ago

skohan 7y ago

Honestly it's hard to imagine. Laptops are an incredibly important form factor. I actually suspect the move to/inclusion of ARM in the macOS lines of product is part of the motivation behind dumping support for 32-bit apps in Catalina. By preemtively removing support for a large amount of legacy software, which will likely never be recompiled for ARM, they avoid the situation where their new machines appear much less capable than the old ones.

mrpippy 7y ago
Exactly. By “clearing the deck” of all APIs (and software using them) that won’t make it to ARM, they can position it as the same OS and apps, just running on a more-efficient chip. And for 90+% of Catalina-compatible apps, a recompile is all that’s needed. (And/or they’ll have an emulator)
pjmlp 7y ago
In the PC world, 2-1 like the Surface are taking over classical laptops.
- wooger 7y ago
  Are they? Certainly not in sales. There was a push to make all laptops have a touchscreen a few years back, but this seems to have fizzled out, and I've seldom seen anyone use them (deliberately anyway).
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Here in Germany if you go to a local consumer shop, there aren't many classical laptops left to chose from.

DagAgren 7y ago

He does not propose that. He is merely saying that they are going to move SOME users from Mac to iPad. Not all, just some.

ekianjo 7y ago

Maybe Apple will come up with an "iPad with integrated keyboard!" and tout it as the next revolution.

m463 7y ago

They're already on the path to do that by making the Mac unusable. I tried getting Little Snitch installed on Catalina and it has to contact apple before it can be enabled. This whole "ask apple's permission" thing really annoys me.

Veen 7y ago
You can turn Gatekeeper off.
zapzupnz 7y ago
> I tried getting Little Snitch installed on Catalina and it has to contact apple before it can be enabled (A) It doesn't contact Apple for permission; it's asking you, the user, for permission to access certain aspects to prevent malicious apps from encroaching on user privacy and security — in no part of the transaction is it phoning home. Locking applications out of unfettered access to the system is nothing new nor particularly Apple-specific. Please do not spread unnecessary FUD. > This whole "ask apple's permission" thing really annoys me (B) I will direct you to point A.
- m463 7y ago
  I don't think that's accurate. When you install little snitch, you have to go to the security and privacy pane, which should have a dialog to allow obdev.at to install a kernel extension. However, if you're not connected to the internet, that dialog doesn't seem to show up.

simonh 7y ago

Until now the speculation has been that Apple might port OSX to ARM. I think with the move to deep, rich keyboard, trackpad and mouse support in iPadOS that basically becomes an uninteresting question. It looks like iPadOS is on a trajectory to become a very capable laptop, and maybe later desktop OS. Looking at the iPad and magic keyboard in profile reminds me a bit of the ‘lamp shade’ Macs back in the day. The iPad tablet form factor will eventually hit limits in screen size. Is a 15”, 24” or even 27” tablet really feasible? If eventually the iPad becomes highly usable in docked mode with a keyboard, why not bring it out in a full clamshell or even desktop form factor? Looking at it this way ok, maybe the Mac will move to ARM, or maybe it won’t. The thing is in the long run it might not matter.

pjmlp 7y ago
Laptops are desktops, since 2006 I haven't worked for any company where they were still actively spending money acquiring desktops. The people that required desktop like compute power either got a laptop workstation like Thinkpad W series (now P), or some server connected via RDP. Apple just needs to have a docking station on their offerings.
- tyingq 7y ago
  "haven't worked for any company where they were still actively spending money acquiring desktops." It's still very common for companies to supply desktops to lower paid desk workers that don't work from home. The total cost is lower, fewer failures, etc.
  - llampx 7y ago
    After Coronavirus, I can see even that dwindling further. Laptops are cheap enough that TCO-wise its better to have a small, portable all-in-one solution than a desktop.
- wolrah 7y ago
  > Apple just needs to have a docking station on their offerings. But they do, it's called Thunderbolt, and they were the first manufacturer to really buy in hard. For any laptop that can run within the 100 watt limit of USB-C charging there's little to nothing a proprietary docking solution offers compared to TB3, and even those that require more power can still use a TB dock just with one additional cable to plug in. Yes there are a lot of crappy Thunderbolt and/or USB-C docks out there, but it's not like proprietary docks were ever bug-free either. At least now you have a choice of dozens of vendors rather than being stuck with whatever the laptop OEM wants to offer, and changing model lines doesn't mean buying a whole new set of docks.

mortenjorck 7y ago

From the article: > An answer to the now age-old ARM-ed Mac question now emerges: With the emphasis on the iPad Pro as a real computer, there’s no reason for Apple to move the Mac off of trusty if perhaps less glamorous Intel processors. Does this mean that iPad Pro sales will cannibalize the Mac? We’ve long known the answer that one. It doesn’t really matter to the company as long as customers enjoy their Apple devices. I don’t think Gassée is arguing that the iPad definitively will replace the Mac, or that this is Apple's intention. I think he’s arguing that Apple is positioning the iPad in a way that it could, and that this positioning lets the Mac off the hook for an architecture transition.