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The article said the government didn’t specify punishment for breaking this rule, but what would the existing statutory consequences be for disobeying an order

The article said the government didn’t specify punishment for breaking this rule, but what would the existing statutory consequences be for disobeying an order like this?

bobjob 7y ago
Up to 15,000€ as far as I understand.
- tastroder 7y ago
  Merkel explicitly said (in the press conference, answering a reporters question) that they did not discuss the issue of specific consequences today. edit: Ah, yeah that might well apply. Would be an upper bound though.
  - bobjob 7y ago
    Then the 15,000€ fines are a thing for breaking specific federal rules and I mixed things up. In in Bavaria we have those rules and Saarland has similar rules.
oaiey 7y ago
They avoid talking about it. In Bavaria we have a up to 25k € fine on violations (which I presume is backed by a German wide law). I think mention this fine is a next escalation.
- cygned 7y ago
  Yeah that’s § 73 (2) IfSG: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/__73.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/__73.html I guess they will escalate over time and fine only those people breaking the rules multiple times.
blattimwind 7y ago
§ 113 StGB could be applicable if you resist officers enforcing the ban. Fine or up to three years. § 111 StGB could be applicable if you make Facebook posts calling for people to ignore the ban. Fine or up to five years.
- Tomte 7y ago
  The Infektionsschutzgesetz is lex specialis to the general criminal code. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/ https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/ § 73 provides for fines up to 2500 Euros or 25000 Euros, § 74 provides for up to five years imprisonment, § 75 provides for up to two years imprisonment.
stefan_ 7y ago
Presumably you'll be paid damages. The reason there is no mention of specific enforcement is that there is very obviously no constitutional standing for these kind of outlandishly dystopian rules. Their "enforcement" is an emergency court petition away from being entirely invalidated.
- hef19898 7y ago
  There are quite a few, the "Infektionsschutzgesetz", or whatever the official name is, being one of them. There are also national emergency laws and such. That's nothing new.
- Tomte 7y ago
  Infectious diseases were, in fact, specifically discussed and named as one of the limits of freedom of assembly, when our constitution was adopted.
- lm28469 7y ago
  There is absolutely nothing dystopian about taking serious measures during such events.
ritchiea 7y ago
I don’t remember it it was specified at the time but supposedly businesses in Berlin that didn’t follow the first set of safety precautions (retail stores closed, restaurants closed for indoor seating at 6pm, tables 1.5 meters apart, takeaway only after 6) got 5k fines if caught by the Ordnungsamt. So there is some effort at enforcement.

The article said the government didn’t specify punishment for breaking this rule, but what would the existing statutory consequences be for disobeying an order like this?

bobjob 7y ago

Up to 15,000€ as far as I understand.

tastroder 7y ago
Merkel explicitly said (in the press conference, answering a reporters question) that they did not discuss the issue of specific consequences today. edit: Ah, yeah that might well apply. Would be an upper bound though.
- bobjob 7y ago
  Then the 15,000€ fines are a thing for breaking specific federal rules and I mixed things up. In in Bavaria we have those rules and Saarland has similar rules.

oaiey 7y ago

They avoid talking about it. In Bavaria we have a up to 25k € fine on violations (which I presume is backed by a German wide law). I think mention this fine is a next escalation.

cygned 7y ago
Yeah that’s § 73 (2) IfSG: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/__73.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/__73.html I guess they will escalate over time and fine only those people breaking the rules multiple times.

blattimwind 7y ago

§ 113 StGB could be applicable if you resist officers enforcing the ban. Fine or up to three years. § 111 StGB could be applicable if you make Facebook posts calling for people to ignore the ban. Fine or up to five years.

Tomte 7y ago
The Infektionsschutzgesetz is lex specialis to the general criminal code. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/ https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/ § 73 provides for fines up to 2500 Euros or 25000 Euros, § 74 provides for up to five years imprisonment, § 75 provides for up to two years imprisonment.

stefan_ 7y ago

Presumably you'll be paid damages. The reason there is no mention of specific enforcement is that there is very obviously no constitutional standing for these kind of outlandishly dystopian rules. Their "enforcement" is an emergency court petition away from being entirely invalidated.

hef19898 7y ago
There are quite a few, the "Infektionsschutzgesetz", or whatever the official name is, being one of them. There are also national emergency laws and such. That's nothing new.
Tomte 7y ago
Infectious diseases were, in fact, specifically discussed and named as one of the limits of freedom of assembly, when our constitution was adopted.
lm28469 7y ago
There is absolutely nothing dystopian about taking serious measures during such events.

ritchiea 7y ago

I don’t remember it it was specified at the time but supposedly businesses in Berlin that didn’t follow the first set of safety precautions (retail stores closed, restaurants closed for indoor seating at 6pm, tables 1.5 meters apart, takeaway only after 6) got 5k fines if caught by the Ordnungsamt. So there is some effort at enforcement.