4 ms·

Right now it’s paradoxical: according to the government, masks are useless for civilians, but essential to medical personnel.

ISL 7y ago
There is a resolution to the paradox. Masks do work (especially when worn correctly), but the net-optimal place to put them to work is keeping medical personnel up and functional. Have spare masks? We are trying to get them to the people who need them most: https://findthemasks.com/ https://findthemasks.com/ We are presently listing hospitals accepting small-scale donations in 28 states, growing fast.
- the8472 7y ago
  That's not a resolution because the claim is that they're useless ("not effective"), which is not the same as there existing a better use. They could have communicated the truth, instead they chose to lie, which erodes trust. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...
  - jendnfoxke 7y ago
    YOU are making the claim that they’re useless. “Not effective” does not mean “useless” You are making a dishonest argument to make your misguided point.
  - longerthoughts 7y ago
    If they’d said something like “they’re effective but it’s better for all of us if these people get them instead of you” would that have been effective?
    - the8472 7y ago
      They could have avoided making any direct comment on effectiveness and simply stated that access by medical personnel needs to be prioritized since they're the most exposed group.
      - davrosthedalek 7y ago
        TP hoarders will think: So if access to them is prioritized, they are obviously very effective, and if there is a need to prioritize, I should keep mine/get more, because I won't be able to get them later.
- nprz 7y ago
  Except that wasn't the actual message coming from the Surgeon General. The original message appears to intentionally obscure the fact that not only does the US not have enough masks for our civilians, we also don't have enough masks for our health care professionals.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    In emergency situations, it's possible misleading the public might be somewhat necessary to reach optimal health outcomes. There is substantial literature on this question with regards to climate change messaging. The government already misleads the public when it exaggerates things like the actual threat of terrorism to the average American, at least this time it is lying with some sort of societal good in mind.
    - the8472 7y ago
      Perhaps, but it also pours gasoline on the flame of skepticism, once the cat is out of the bag and there's proof that they have lied. I.e. those decisions don't exist in a vacuum, they require (and burn) trust built in the past and decrease trust in the future. At some point it ceases to work and only makes things worse.
      - MiroF 7y ago
        Agreed, I think that managing trust is important. At the same time, choices have to be made about what information to emphasize and what to not emphasize, this is inherent to communication. I think our government's decision to emphasize to the public that masks are not completely protective and that washing your hands is a more effective intervention is probably a good one, even if it neglects the fact that masks are more helpful than not.
    - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
      Even if we grant the premise, this is just such a dumb lie. It's universally obvious that masks work; you can look at pictures of everyone in other countries wearing masks, and the 1 second thought of "the virus has a hard time going through the mask" is substantially correct. How's anyone who realized that they lied about masks supposed to trust their other public health recommendations?

ISL 7y ago

There is a resolution to the paradox. Masks do work (especially when worn correctly), but the net-optimal place to put them to work is keeping medical personnel up and functional. Have spare masks? We are trying to get them to the people who need them most: https://findthemasks.com/ https://findthemasks.com/ We are presently listing hospitals accepting small-scale donations in 28 states, growing fast.

the8472 7y ago
That's not a resolution because the claim is that they're useless ("not effective"), which is not the same as there existing a better use. They could have communicated the truth, instead they chose to lie, which erodes trust. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...
- jendnfoxke 7y ago
  YOU are making the claim that they’re useless. “Not effective” does not mean “useless” You are making a dishonest argument to make your misguided point.
- longerthoughts 7y ago
  If they’d said something like “they’re effective but it’s better for all of us if these people get them instead of you” would that have been effective?
  - the8472 7y ago
    They could have avoided making any direct comment on effectiveness and simply stated that access by medical personnel needs to be prioritized since they're the most exposed group.
    - davrosthedalek 7y ago
      TP hoarders will think: So if access to them is prioritized, they are obviously very effective, and if there is a need to prioritize, I should keep mine/get more, because I won't be able to get them later.
nprz 7y ago
Except that wasn't the actual message coming from the Surgeon General. The original message appears to intentionally obscure the fact that not only does the US not have enough masks for our civilians, we also don't have enough masks for our health care professionals.
- MiroF 7y ago
  In emergency situations, it's possible misleading the public might be somewhat necessary to reach optimal health outcomes. There is substantial literature on this question with regards to climate change messaging. The government already misleads the public when it exaggerates things like the actual threat of terrorism to the average American, at least this time it is lying with some sort of societal good in mind.
  - the8472 7y ago
    Perhaps, but it also pours gasoline on the flame of skepticism, once the cat is out of the bag and there's proof that they have lied. I.e. those decisions don't exist in a vacuum, they require (and burn) trust built in the past and decrease trust in the future. At some point it ceases to work and only makes things worse.
    - MiroF 7y ago
      Agreed, I think that managing trust is important. At the same time, choices have to be made about what information to emphasize and what to not emphasize, this is inherent to communication. I think our government's decision to emphasize to the public that masks are not completely protective and that washing your hands is a more effective intervention is probably a good one, even if it neglects the fact that masks are more helpful than not.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    Even if we grant the premise, this is just such a dumb lie. It's universally obvious that masks work; you can look at pictures of everyone in other countries wearing masks, and the 1 second thought of "the virus has a hard time going through the mask" is substantially correct. How's anyone who realized that they lied about masks supposed to trust their other public health recommendations?