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I think you're paying too much attention to Trump and politics. The people actually getting work done are cooperating and moving at a pace that has really never

I think you're paying too much attention to Trump and politics. The people actually getting work done are cooperating and moving at a pace that has really never been done. The articles I've read and podcasts I've heard with scientist all echo the same sentiment. Ignore Trump and the politics, the science is happening at a pace unseen before. > the while thing has just been wave after wave of delayed and reactive actions that were underprepared to begin with. I do agree the US has been slow to ramp up, but that is quickly changing. Although, I would once again offer up to ignore Trump and watch the governors. They have been acting quickly and decisively. Underprepared with respect to supplies is always easy to say in hindsight because now we know the war we are fighting. There is a saying that armies are always tooled to fight the last war. Until you know what the next war will be, it's impossible to fully prepare. > if everyone on earth just sat still for a couple of weeks, this thing would just vanish. IMO, that is naive and optimistic. The problem, for lack of a better word, is that the large majority of cases (80-90%?) are mild. For many, it's mild enough that they would have not deviated from their normal routine. Once this thing escaped China, and definitely once it got out of SEA, it was going to be incredibly hard to stomp out without herd immunity either through infection or vaccine.

alexilliamson 7y ago
> The articles I've read and podcasts I've heard I share your optimism, but I don't think this bit helps your argument. Podcasts in particular do not scream "credibility"
- matwood 7y ago
  > Podcasts in particular do not scream "credibility" Except when they have on doctors who are experts on viral disease. For example: https://peterattiamd.com/category/podcast/ https://peterattiamd.com/category/podcast/
dboreham 7y ago
Parent means that everyone should sit still whether they have symptoms or not.
JackeJR 7y ago
I too share a dim view of the world's ability to work together. Even now when faced with such a disease that is essentially everyone's problem, countries first and foremost chose to safeguard their own interests at the expense of others. It is a situation where if we survive, we did so because we worked together and if we die, it is because we only cared for ourselves and nobody else. If course this is oversimplifying a very complex interplay of things but my drift is that no country seems to be able to look beyond their borders and see that if we were to win this, we have to work together. Even more dismaying is the refusal to lift sanctions on Iran. Even a narrowly crafted exception to the sanctions for supplies needed to combat the onslaught of the virus would be good but so far nothing. This is according to what I have read this far and if this is in error, I would be happy to be shown that.
- cavisne 7y ago
  I know it’s hard to believe but the regime (who any lift in sanctions would have to flow through) hates America enough to kill their own people. https://twitter.com/ap/status/1241658649224925184?s=21 https://twitter.com/ap/status/1241658649224925184?s=21 Aid is the only way to help Iran.
- matwood 7y ago
  I view a pandemic like what happens in an airline emergency. The first thing you do is put on your own oxygen mask to make sure you are stabilized before helping others. It sounds selfish, but if the most powerful options lose control because they are busy helping others then they can cause everyone to lose. Also, let me say that I'm not saying it's all rainbows and butterflies out there. I just think about all the things that were going to end humankind in my lifetime alone, yet here we are arguably in the best position we have ever been to fight something like this. As a kid we were genuinely afraid of nuclear war. Then there was the HIV epidemic. Y2K, tech bubble busting, 2008 financial crisis, and all the smaller things in between I'm forgetting about. I look out and see the people on ground sharing information, being incredibly cooperative, and trying to stabilize their situation so then they can effectively help others. That is why I'm optimistic we'll work through this.
joshstrange 7y ago
> I think you're paying too much attention to Trump and politics. The people actually getting work done are cooperating and moving at a pace that has really never been done. A pace that is constantly hindered by wrong/misleading statements made by Trump. You cannot pretend he is not actively making their jobs harder and thus putting us all in more danger. > Although, I would once again offer up to ignore Trump and watch the governors. They have been acting quickly and decisively. Not all of the governors have and that is in part because they themselves or their constituents will do just about anything Trump says and/or anything to avoid his ire. We still, to this day, have people parroting things from Trump/Fox about how it's just the flu, it's not bad if you are young, vacinee is right around the corner, we already have drugs to fight this, etc. That is because of one man caring more about his reelection/markets than the people of the United States. Period. His comments have been and continue to be extremely detrimental to fighting COVID-19. Even now, he is more concerned with re-writing history ("I always took this seriously") and downplaying the threat suggesting we don't have to worry because we already have a vaccine in testing (without saying it's ~14mo out) and by talking about the malaria drugs as if they are cures (we still have to test). Look at how they spend insane amounts of time in press briefings: attacking the press, talking about how the markets will boom after this, repeatedly having the POTUS make false/misleading statements that have to be corrected, and having almost every official start by "I'd like to thank Trump for his leadership...". > Underprepared with respect to supplies is always easy to say in hindsight because now we know the war we are fighting. There is a saying that armies are always tooled to fight the last war. Until you know what the next war will be, it's impossible to fully prepare. That's just not true though. They knew about this as early as Jan 3rd and waited months before doing anything substantial, they had a team designed to spearhead the fight against a virus like this and they disbanded it, they had a simulation of a virus outbreak just last year and failed spectacularly but decided to make zero changes. One more thing to leave you with, /yesterday/ he suggested the reuse n95 masks and just clean them with "very good liquids". And 2-3 days ago he gave the /wrong/ set of symptoms for COVID-19. To ignore "Trump/Politics" is pretty naive as it's not like the experts are in control, he is actively making the situation worse.
nikofeyn 7y ago
> I think you're paying too much attention to Trump and politics not at all. there are plenty of things wrong beyond him, and i have personally been dealing with the outbreak for months. i don't think you or most understand how some of the government's inaction has truly got us to where we are today and has been harmful. everyone complaining about a less than week long "quarantine" hasn't dealt with this for two months. that being said, one can also not ignore trump and the sycophantic government. he is blatantly misleading people and is ridiculing china for no reason. it's childish and petulent and extremely harmful in the long. we have a senator that says "gag and vote for it anyway" to provide support for people. that tells you the sentiment. and these are things they say in public! it amounts to treason in my book. you cannot ignore the massive narcissitic nature of our "leaders". > IMO, that is naive and optimistic. it was hyperbole, although it does have a ring of truth to it. the point is that our enemy is not complex, and as with most things, the true enemy is ourselves. humans laud ourselves for being above animals and our ability to predict the future. however, we don't. we have very short term views and rarely deal with something unless it is right on our doorstep. i don't care about the reaction afterward. it isn't good enough to be this way. and the idea is that there are far deeper problems than just dealing with and reacting to viral outbreaks when they happen. a more organized society could start preventing or reducing the frequency of the outbreaks in the first place, although i doubt we ever get there. this is a good article: http://m.nautil.us/issue/83/intelligence/the-man-who-saw-the-pandemic-coming http://m.nautil.us/issue/83/intelligence/the-man-who-saw-the...

alexilliamson 7y ago

> The articles I've read and podcasts I've heard I share your optimism, but I don't think this bit helps your argument. Podcasts in particular do not scream "credibility"

matwood 7y ago
> Podcasts in particular do not scream "credibility" Except when they have on doctors who are experts on viral disease. For example: https://peterattiamd.com/category/podcast/ https://peterattiamd.com/category/podcast/

dboreham 7y ago

Parent means that everyone should sit still whether they have symptoms or not.

JackeJR 7y ago

I too share a dim view of the world's ability to work together. Even now when faced with such a disease that is essentially everyone's problem, countries first and foremost chose to safeguard their own interests at the expense of others. It is a situation where if we survive, we did so because we worked together and if we die, it is because we only cared for ourselves and nobody else. If course this is oversimplifying a very complex interplay of things but my drift is that no country seems to be able to look beyond their borders and see that if we were to win this, we have to work together. Even more dismaying is the refusal to lift sanctions on Iran. Even a narrowly crafted exception to the sanctions for supplies needed to combat the onslaught of the virus would be good but so far nothing. This is according to what I have read this far and if this is in error, I would be happy to be shown that.

cavisne 7y ago
I know it’s hard to believe but the regime (who any lift in sanctions would have to flow through) hates America enough to kill their own people. https://twitter.com/ap/status/1241658649224925184?s=21 https://twitter.com/ap/status/1241658649224925184?s=21 Aid is the only way to help Iran.
matwood 7y ago
I view a pandemic like what happens in an airline emergency. The first thing you do is put on your own oxygen mask to make sure you are stabilized before helping others. It sounds selfish, but if the most powerful options lose control because they are busy helping others then they can cause everyone to lose. Also, let me say that I'm not saying it's all rainbows and butterflies out there. I just think about all the things that were going to end humankind in my lifetime alone, yet here we are arguably in the best position we have ever been to fight something like this. As a kid we were genuinely afraid of nuclear war. Then there was the HIV epidemic. Y2K, tech bubble busting, 2008 financial crisis, and all the smaller things in between I'm forgetting about. I look out and see the people on ground sharing information, being incredibly cooperative, and trying to stabilize their situation so then they can effectively help others. That is why I'm optimistic we'll work through this.

joshstrange 7y ago

> I think you're paying too much attention to Trump and politics. The people actually getting work done are cooperating and moving at a pace that has really never been done. A pace that is constantly hindered by wrong/misleading statements made by Trump. You cannot pretend he is not actively making their jobs harder and thus putting us all in more danger. > Although, I would once again offer up to ignore Trump and watch the governors. They have been acting quickly and decisively. Not all of the governors have and that is in part because they themselves or their constituents will do just about anything Trump says and/or anything to avoid his ire. We still, to this day, have people parroting things from Trump/Fox about how it's just the flu, it's not bad if you are young, vacinee is right around the corner, we already have drugs to fight this, etc. That is because of one man caring more about his reelection/markets than the people of the United States. Period. His comments have been and continue to be extremely detrimental to fighting COVID-19. Even now, he is more concerned with re-writing history ("I always took this seriously") and downplaying the threat suggesting we don't have to worry because we already have a vaccine in testing (without saying it's ~14mo out) and by talking about the malaria drugs as if they are cures (we still have to test). Look at how they spend insane amounts of time in press briefings: attacking the press, talking about how the markets will boom after this, repeatedly having the POTUS make false/misleading statements that have to be corrected, and having almost every official start by "I'd like to thank Trump for his leadership...". > Underprepared with respect to supplies is always easy to say in hindsight because now we know the war we are fighting. There is a saying that armies are always tooled to fight the last war. Until you know what the next war will be, it's impossible to fully prepare. That's just not true though. They knew about this as early as Jan 3rd and waited months before doing anything substantial, they had a team designed to spearhead the fight against a virus like this and they disbanded it, they had a simulation of a virus outbreak just last year and failed spectacularly but decided to make zero changes. One more thing to leave you with, /yesterday/ he suggested the reuse n95 masks and just clean them with "very good liquids". And 2-3 days ago he gave the /wrong/ set of symptoms for COVID-19. To ignore "Trump/Politics" is pretty naive as it's not like the experts are in control, he is actively making the situation worse.

nikofeyn 7y ago

> I think you're paying too much attention to Trump and politics not at all. there are plenty of things wrong beyond him, and i have personally been dealing with the outbreak for months. i don't think you or most understand how some of the government's inaction has truly got us to where we are today and has been harmful. everyone complaining about a less than week long "quarantine" hasn't dealt with this for two months. that being said, one can also not ignore trump and the sycophantic government. he is blatantly misleading people and is ridiculing china for no reason. it's childish and petulent and extremely harmful in the long. we have a senator that says "gag and vote for it anyway" to provide support for people. that tells you the sentiment. and these are things they say in public! it amounts to treason in my book. you cannot ignore the massive narcissitic nature of our "leaders". > IMO, that is naive and optimistic. it was hyperbole, although it does have a ring of truth to it. the point is that our enemy is not complex, and as with most things, the true enemy is ourselves. humans laud ourselves for being above animals and our ability to predict the future. however, we don't. we have very short term views and rarely deal with something unless it is right on our doorstep. i don't care about the reaction afterward. it isn't good enough to be this way. and the idea is that there are far deeper problems than just dealing with and reacting to viral outbreaks when they happen. a more organized society could start preventing or reducing the frequency of the outbreaks in the first place, although i doubt we ever get there. this is a good article: http://m.nautil.us/issue/83/intelligence/the-man-who-saw-the-pandemic-coming http://m.nautil.us/issue/83/intelligence/the-man-who-saw-the...