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> This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done.

> This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done. would you mind elaborating? because i find it extremely difficult how one could hold such an optimistic and apparent naive opinion. from where i sit, this crisis is showing the exact opposite. there is very little international communication and cooperation, and even internal to countries, like in the u.s., there is very little communication and cooperation. aside from a few outliers, the while thing has just been wave after wave of delayed and reactive actions that were underprepared to begin with. people keep thinking we'll solve this with technology (the typical human way), but what would have been better is if everyone simply communicated, listened, and cooperated. the human race could not face a dumber enemy. think about it. if everyone on earth just sat still for a couple of weeks, this thing would just vanish. can you imagine a more simple foe? and yet, this thing is crippling econmies, healthcare, and more.

funcDropShadow 7y ago
If you are focused on the U.S., then I understand your sentiment. But if you look beyond, it is really promising. Medical science and biology are producing new scientific knowledge about CoViD-19 and SARS-Cov2 at break neck speed. That alone is amazing to see. On the other hand, you really see that people get it and that they have to do social distancing to help them and everybody else. On top of that you see, e.g. China helping European countries in their crisis. That is unprecedented. The outlook for the U.S. might be more grim, at least as seen from Europe. It seems pretty obvious that medicine as a business is not the right setup to tackle a pandemic. Germany moved into that direction into the last 20 years. And everybody is realizing the downsides of that move, now. Although it could be seen for 20 years if you bothered to look. Back to the U.S., I find it deeply worrying that people started to buy guns. Do they believe they could shoot the virus? Or do they expect looting and civil uproar? That would be the worst people could do in such a crisis. I hope it doesn't come to that. And finally, Trump. I think I don't have to write anything about him by now.
- gingerlime 7y ago
  I know it’s OT but would love to understand more about the health insurance situation in Germany and what’s happened in the last 20 years. Ideally in English which is a big ask I guess. Moved to Germany in 2011 and still can’t work out the whole insurance thing (and don’t understand German enough to read and figure those nuances)
  - funcDropShadow 7y ago
    To make it short, 20 years ago most hospitals were privatized, before they were run by universities, cities, and states and some other public actors. There were already some private hospitals, but not too much. Since, then most hospitals were sold to companies or in the better case transformed into companies, partly owned by their previous owner. Companies optimize for revenue, so they don't spend money on stocks of masks or reserve capacities that are only needed once in a lifetime. Nevertheless, there are significantly more ICU beds per capita in Germany than in most other european or western countries. The insurance system is split in two almost separate systems. One for everybody, the public health insurance system, where you can choose and switch between a range of public insurers. You must have health insurance in Germany. E.g. you cannot spend a semester as an exchange student without health insurance. If you earn above a certain amount per year, you are assumed to be able to provide for your own health insurance. You can opt-out of public health insurance and get a private one. They are very competitevly priced for young and healthy individuals. And they usually have way wider coverage. But you cannot go back after a certain age. So it is a risk, and there have been insurers that raised the cost of private insurance for elderly people by multiple hundred percents. On the other hand, the cost of public health insurances depends on your income and not on your health. If you are unemployed and you show that you try to get a job, your public health insurance is free as well. And children are free, if both their parents are in public health insurance. Then, there are private insurance policies that add on top of public health insurance coverage. Most people are in the public health insurance system in Germany.
    - lnsru 7y ago
      I have public health insurance, but if you need some better treatment you can always pay for it by yourself. Some minor surgery for 300€ isn’t big deal. Or one can get additional insurance packages to mandatory insurance for all the special needs. My all older colleagues tell me, that private insurance is kind of scam. You pay almost nothing when you are young, but with age it costs more and more. You pay for kids on top and barely get better treatment than regular insured.
matwood 7y ago
I think you're paying too much attention to Trump and politics. The people actually getting work done are cooperating and moving at a pace that has really never been done. The articles I've read and podcasts I've heard with scientist all echo the same sentiment. Ignore Trump and the politics, the science is happening at a pace unseen before. > the while thing has just been wave after wave of delayed and reactive actions that were underprepared to begin with. I do agree the US has been slow to ramp up, but that is quickly changing. Although, I would once again offer up to ignore Trump and watch the governors. They have been acting quickly and decisively. Underprepared with respect to supplies is always easy to say in hindsight because now we know the war we are fighting. There is a saying that armies are always tooled to fight the last war. Until you know what the next war will be, it's impossible to fully prepare. > if everyone on earth just sat still for a couple of weeks, this thing would just vanish. IMO, that is naive and optimistic. The problem, for lack of a better word, is that the large majority of cases (80-90%?) are mild. For many, it's mild enough that they would have not deviated from their normal routine. Once this thing escaped China, and definitely once it got out of SEA, it was going to be incredibly hard to stomp out without herd immunity either through infection or vaccine.
- alexilliamson 7y ago
  > The articles I've read and podcasts I've heard I share your optimism, but I don't think this bit helps your argument. Podcasts in particular do not scream "credibility"
  - matwood 7y ago
    > Podcasts in particular do not scream "credibility" Except when they have on doctors who are experts on viral disease. For example: https://peterattiamd.com/category/podcast/ https://peterattiamd.com/category/podcast/
- dboreham 7y ago
  Parent means that everyone should sit still whether they have symptoms or not.
- 7y ago
znpy 7y ago
> there is very little international communication and cooperation Indeed. The EU didn't really mind about Italy's problems and potential economic unease until it started affecting other european countries too. If you assume the european union being based, fundamentally, on cooperation then that really make you question the whole thing.
- SilasX 7y ago
  Yeah, and you can't really leave things to be some other country's problem -- especially a transmissible disease -- when that country shares a (for the time being) open border with you on land.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
foob4r 7y ago
+1 I've become more pessimistic about the human race to work together to solve problems now. So much jingoism around me, and around in the news. I understand that's not everyone, but to be it seems like it's every country for themselves.
topologistics 7y ago
> if everyone on earth just sat still for a couple of weeks, this thing would just vanish. Actually that in itself would cripple economies, despite being a really good idea (sitting still for a while I mean). The whole world is operating under an economic paradigm that requires infinite growth forever; the model is decoupled from reality. If we all sat still for a couple weeks, everyone would be better off, but the economy would tank. Better get back to work!
cavisne 7y ago
I would focus on the actual words and actions of decision makers at the state and federal level. The communication and collaboration is happening, agreed it’s still reactive. At this point the media is in an abusive relationship with their audience, sitting around all day trying to think how they can scare them, leading to deeply dishonest headlines like this https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-reports-chloroquine-poisonings-after-trump-praised-drug https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-r...
pc2g4d 7y ago
I've also felt very encouraged by this. To see my own town almost completely shut down before any legal order even required it shows me that people will still voluntarily make sacrifices for the benefit of the whole. Everyone I know is doing their part. And beyond that to see the scientific community come together, to see that even with the blunders there is real cooperation between the various states and the federal government (I'm in the U.S.---we have gigantic hospital ships in the ports of two of our largest cities right now, federal troops mobilized, hundreds of billions of dollars authorized, and that's just part of what the federal government is doing), to see that individuals, corporations, research institutions, universities, foundations, etc., are all stepping in to fill the gaps, the ingenuity of people finding ways around resource limitations, debunking myths, providing encouragement and guidance and hope in a challenging time... and to have something as simple as a virus so powerfully remind us that we're all in this together, yes we could do much better, but I've been heartened by all of it.
- andbberger 7y ago
  > I'm in the U.S.---we have gigantic hospital ships in the ports of two of our largest cities right now Not true. The west coast one is deploying soon, but the east coast one was undergoing repairs at the time and is weeks away from deployment.
  - nikofeyn 7y ago
    yea, and they are missing the point. those ships are being deployed because shit is hitting the fan. it isn't a positive thing.
  - learc83 7y ago
    The Comfort is already in NYC. It was undergoing maintenance that was scheduled to take weeks, but they got it done in 8 days. The Mercy is also already in LA.

funcDropShadow 7y ago

If you are focused on the U.S., then I understand your sentiment. But if you look beyond, it is really promising. Medical science and biology are producing new scientific knowledge about CoViD-19 and SARS-Cov2 at break neck speed. That alone is amazing to see. On the other hand, you really see that people get it and that they have to do social distancing to help them and everybody else. On top of that you see, e.g. China helping European countries in their crisis. That is unprecedented. The outlook for the U.S. might be more grim, at least as seen from Europe. It seems pretty obvious that medicine as a business is not the right setup to tackle a pandemic. Germany moved into that direction into the last 20 years. And everybody is realizing the downsides of that move, now. Although it could be seen for 20 years if you bothered to look. Back to the U.S., I find it deeply worrying that people started to buy guns. Do they believe they could shoot the virus? Or do they expect looting and civil uproar? That would be the worst people could do in such a crisis. I hope it doesn't come to that. And finally, Trump. I think I don't have to write anything about him by now.

gingerlime 7y ago
I know it’s OT but would love to understand more about the health insurance situation in Germany and what’s happened in the last 20 years. Ideally in English which is a big ask I guess. Moved to Germany in 2011 and still can’t work out the whole insurance thing (and don’t understand German enough to read and figure those nuances)
- funcDropShadow 7y ago
  To make it short, 20 years ago most hospitals were privatized, before they were run by universities, cities, and states and some other public actors. There were already some private hospitals, but not too much. Since, then most hospitals were sold to companies or in the better case transformed into companies, partly owned by their previous owner. Companies optimize for revenue, so they don't spend money on stocks of masks or reserve capacities that are only needed once in a lifetime. Nevertheless, there are significantly more ICU beds per capita in Germany than in most other european or western countries. The insurance system is split in two almost separate systems. One for everybody, the public health insurance system, where you can choose and switch between a range of public insurers. You must have health insurance in Germany. E.g. you cannot spend a semester as an exchange student without health insurance. If you earn above a certain amount per year, you are assumed to be able to provide for your own health insurance. You can opt-out of public health insurance and get a private one. They are very competitevly priced for young and healthy individuals. And they usually have way wider coverage. But you cannot go back after a certain age. So it is a risk, and there have been insurers that raised the cost of private insurance for elderly people by multiple hundred percents. On the other hand, the cost of public health insurances depends on your income and not on your health. If you are unemployed and you show that you try to get a job, your public health insurance is free as well. And children are free, if both their parents are in public health insurance. Then, there are private insurance policies that add on top of public health insurance coverage. Most people are in the public health insurance system in Germany.
  - lnsru 7y ago
    I have public health insurance, but if you need some better treatment you can always pay for it by yourself. Some minor surgery for 300€ isn’t big deal. Or one can get additional insurance packages to mandatory insurance for all the special needs. My all older colleagues tell me, that private insurance is kind of scam. You pay almost nothing when you are young, but with age it costs more and more. You pay for kids on top and barely get better treatment than regular insured.

matwood 7y ago

I think you're paying too much attention to Trump and politics. The people actually getting work done are cooperating and moving at a pace that has really never been done. The articles I've read and podcasts I've heard with scientist all echo the same sentiment. Ignore Trump and the politics, the science is happening at a pace unseen before. > the while thing has just been wave after wave of delayed and reactive actions that were underprepared to begin with. I do agree the US has been slow to ramp up, but that is quickly changing. Although, I would once again offer up to ignore Trump and watch the governors. They have been acting quickly and decisively. Underprepared with respect to supplies is always easy to say in hindsight because now we know the war we are fighting. There is a saying that armies are always tooled to fight the last war. Until you know what the next war will be, it's impossible to fully prepare. > if everyone on earth just sat still for a couple of weeks, this thing would just vanish. IMO, that is naive and optimistic. The problem, for lack of a better word, is that the large majority of cases (80-90%?) are mild. For many, it's mild enough that they would have not deviated from their normal routine. Once this thing escaped China, and definitely once it got out of SEA, it was going to be incredibly hard to stomp out without herd immunity either through infection or vaccine.

alexilliamson 7y ago
> The articles I've read and podcasts I've heard I share your optimism, but I don't think this bit helps your argument. Podcasts in particular do not scream "credibility"
- matwood 7y ago
  > Podcasts in particular do not scream "credibility" Except when they have on doctors who are experts on viral disease. For example: https://peterattiamd.com/category/podcast/ https://peterattiamd.com/category/podcast/
dboreham 7y ago
Parent means that everyone should sit still whether they have symptoms or not.
7y ago

znpy 7y ago

> there is very little international communication and cooperation Indeed. The EU didn't really mind about Italy's problems and potential economic unease until it started affecting other european countries too. If you assume the european union being based, fundamentally, on cooperation then that really make you question the whole thing.

SilasX 7y ago
Yeah, and you can't really leave things to be some other country's problem -- especially a transmissible disease -- when that country shares a (for the time being) open border with you on land.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

foob4r 7y ago

+1 I've become more pessimistic about the human race to work together to solve problems now. So much jingoism around me, and around in the news. I understand that's not everyone, but to be it seems like it's every country for themselves.

topologistics 7y ago

> if everyone on earth just sat still for a couple of weeks, this thing would just vanish. Actually that in itself would cripple economies, despite being a really good idea (sitting still for a while I mean). The whole world is operating under an economic paradigm that requires infinite growth forever; the model is decoupled from reality. If we all sat still for a couple weeks, everyone would be better off, but the economy would tank. Better get back to work!

cavisne 7y ago

I would focus on the actual words and actions of decision makers at the state and federal level. The communication and collaboration is happening, agreed it’s still reactive. At this point the media is in an abusive relationship with their audience, sitting around all day trying to think how they can scare them, leading to deeply dishonest headlines like this https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-reports-chloroquine-poisonings-after-trump-praised-drug https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-r...

pc2g4d 7y ago

I've also felt very encouraged by this. To see my own town almost completely shut down before any legal order even required it shows me that people will still voluntarily make sacrifices for the benefit of the whole. Everyone I know is doing their part. And beyond that to see the scientific community come together, to see that even with the blunders there is real cooperation between the various states and the federal government (I'm in the U.S.---we have gigantic hospital ships in the ports of two of our largest cities right now, federal troops mobilized, hundreds of billions of dollars authorized, and that's just part of what the federal government is doing), to see that individuals, corporations, research institutions, universities, foundations, etc., are all stepping in to fill the gaps, the ingenuity of people finding ways around resource limitations, debunking myths, providing encouragement and guidance and hope in a challenging time... and to have something as simple as a virus so powerfully remind us that we're all in this together, yes we could do much better, but I've been heartened by all of it.

andbberger 7y ago
> I'm in the U.S.---we have gigantic hospital ships in the ports of two of our largest cities right now Not true. The west coast one is deploying soon, but the east coast one was undergoing repairs at the time and is weeks away from deployment.
- nikofeyn 7y ago
  yea, and they are missing the point. those ships are being deployed because shit is hitting the fan. it isn't a positive thing.
- learc83 7y ago
  The Comfort is already in NYC. It was undergoing maintenance that was scheduled to take weeks, but they got it done in 8 days. The Mercy is also already in LA.