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Instead of worrying about how people choose to rent their properties, they should instead look to the source of high rental prices, which is bad zoning laws and

Instead of worrying about how people choose to rent their properties, they should instead look to the source of high rental prices, which is bad zoning laws and insufficient total units. Meanwhile Airbnb creates a level of convenience and affordability that makes travel accessible to the masses. I'm sure the software engineers down-voting wouldn't be significantly affected if Airbnb was forced out of operation. Just another version of NIMBYism.

brlewis 7y ago
I've been summarizing the debate here, and so far yours is the comment that contributes most to the top level: https://en.howtruthful.com/o/airbnb_should_be_regulated_because_of_its_effect_on_rental_housing_supply/5e61ead6b1bab9f609bf93908f6a6aff https://en.howtruthful.com/o/airbnb_should_be_regulated_beca...
mumblemumble 7y ago
At least based on the prices I've seen when considering my options, the big potential for savings with airbnb is if you choose to take advantage of the kitchen, so that you're not paying to eat out for every meal. But, if affordability really is your top goal, you'll do even better if you go with a hotel that offers kitchenette suites. In my experience, they typically offer a lower nightly fee than having an airbnb to yourself (especially if you are staying at least a week and don't require someone else to come make your bed for you ever day), and still let you save on meal costs. (Airbnbing a room out of someone's house is even less expensive, but I don't think that style of airbnb rental is really the subject of much controversy.)
mannykannot 7y ago
> Meanwhile Airbnb creates a level of convenience and affordability that makes travel accessible to the masses. Clearly a greater good than, say, having a place to live, no? You have a point with your first paragraph - it would have been a good place to stop. Until the bigger issue is addressed, optimizing for a hypothetical situation is premature.
- lend000 7y ago
  > optimizing for a hypothetical situation is premature. Hypothetical? We've seen travel numbers increase significantly over the last decade, and Airbnb now claims a large chunk of that. I think it's important point to remind people why Airbnb exists -- it's a great service with positive benefits. I have stayed in far more Airbnb's than hotels over the last few years, saving money and typically getting a better overall experience. > Clearly a greater good than, say, having a place to live, no? This goes back to the first point. Let people build more units. If that doesn't fix the problem, then start evaluating more extreme measures that limit the amount of people that are able to travel to an area at a given time (in the name of making sure people have a place to live.)
  - mannykannot 7y ago
    Well, there's an interesting technique - quoting me in reverse order, thereby breaking up the logical connection of my statements. Put them in the correct order, and your initial question is answered. To be absolutely clear: you have identified a greater good if and only if your proposed solution for making housing more affordable is implemented successfully.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      > Put them in the correct order, and your initial question is answered. The post would read almost exactly the same if it addressed your points in the opposite order. Saying it would 'answer' the question as if you're the total arbiter of this is just not true. They're not confused about what you mean, they're disagreeing. And it's really not a step one, step two situation anyway. Both parts are important at the same time, in different ways.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
When I was homeless, I sometimes stayed in cheap hotels. I never stayed in an Airbnb. I've seen discussions online where other homeless people also concluded Airbnb was useless and cheap hotels were more accessible for the poorest of the poor Americans. I've also seen articles about how tourism is destroying cities, destroying the environment, etc. Meanwhile, an upside to the current pandemic is a massive drop in pollution so extreme it's visible on satellite imagery. I am reluctant to agree that optimizing for the right of "ordinary people" to pursue jet set lifestyles is really in the best interest of humanity. I'm happy to let people travel. But "Let's ruin the planet for touristy shit and claim it to be some egalitarian ideal to open that path to less rich people so they can join in on that" is not really a value that strikes me as belonging in the wise and idealistic column. Mayhap we can find something better if we put a little effort into it.
- istorical 7y ago
  Can you explain why motels/hotels were better? In NYC it seems like a roomshare on airbnb in one of the boroughs is way cheaper than any motel or hotel you could find but I could see it being different in cheaper / lower cost of living cities.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    When I looked, they weren't actually cheaper. I never found something cheaper on Airbnb. Also, I had no car. Hotels always had some eateries and the like in walking distance. If an Airbnb is basically in the middle of fuck nowhere with no amenities nearby, it does you no good if you have no car and very limited funds. I stayed a lot in two hotels in Fresno. One had a Chipotle, McDonald's, two restaurants and a 7-11 right on top of it and the bus stop was also practically right on top of it. There was more shopping about a 15 or 20 minute walk away. The other had a Taco Bell practically up against it and more stuff a few minutes walk away even though it was in the worst part of town with the fewest amenities. This also meant it cost less than the other one.
- DeonPenny 7y ago
  Everything doesn't have to be for some overarching good. It has to be fair. it's not fair for people to have to lose money on property they bought to help the poorest of poor americans. Giving access to middle class americans to travel more is a noble ideal. Not everything that we paint morally right like taking property people bought and forcing them to rent to poorest of poor american is fair to renter and we shouldn't create a unfair system for the renters cause they have rights too.

brlewis 7y ago

I've been summarizing the debate here, and so far yours is the comment that contributes most to the top level: https://en.howtruthful.com/o/airbnb_should_be_regulated_because_of_its_effect_on_rental_housing_supply/5e61ead6b1bab9f609bf93908f6a6aff https://en.howtruthful.com/o/airbnb_should_be_regulated_beca...

mumblemumble 7y ago

At least based on the prices I've seen when considering my options, the big potential for savings with airbnb is if you choose to take advantage of the kitchen, so that you're not paying to eat out for every meal. But, if affordability really is your top goal, you'll do even better if you go with a hotel that offers kitchenette suites. In my experience, they typically offer a lower nightly fee than having an airbnb to yourself (especially if you are staying at least a week and don't require someone else to come make your bed for you ever day), and still let you save on meal costs. (Airbnbing a room out of someone's house is even less expensive, but I don't think that style of airbnb rental is really the subject of much controversy.)

mannykannot 7y ago

> Meanwhile Airbnb creates a level of convenience and affordability that makes travel accessible to the masses. Clearly a greater good than, say, having a place to live, no? You have a point with your first paragraph - it would have been a good place to stop. Until the bigger issue is addressed, optimizing for a hypothetical situation is premature.

lend000 7y ago
> optimizing for a hypothetical situation is premature. Hypothetical? We've seen travel numbers increase significantly over the last decade, and Airbnb now claims a large chunk of that. I think it's important point to remind people why Airbnb exists -- it's a great service with positive benefits. I have stayed in far more Airbnb's than hotels over the last few years, saving money and typically getting a better overall experience. > Clearly a greater good than, say, having a place to live, no? This goes back to the first point. Let people build more units. If that doesn't fix the problem, then start evaluating more extreme measures that limit the amount of people that are able to travel to an area at a given time (in the name of making sure people have a place to live.)
- mannykannot 7y ago
  Well, there's an interesting technique - quoting me in reverse order, thereby breaking up the logical connection of my statements. Put them in the correct order, and your initial question is answered. To be absolutely clear: you have identified a greater good if and only if your proposed solution for making housing more affordable is implemented successfully.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    > Put them in the correct order, and your initial question is answered. The post would read almost exactly the same if it addressed your points in the opposite order. Saying it would 'answer' the question as if you're the total arbiter of this is just not true. They're not confused about what you mean, they're disagreeing. And it's really not a step one, step two situation anyway. Both parts are important at the same time, in different ways.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

When I was homeless, I sometimes stayed in cheap hotels. I never stayed in an Airbnb. I've seen discussions online where other homeless people also concluded Airbnb was useless and cheap hotels were more accessible for the poorest of the poor Americans. I've also seen articles about how tourism is destroying cities, destroying the environment, etc. Meanwhile, an upside to the current pandemic is a massive drop in pollution so extreme it's visible on satellite imagery. I am reluctant to agree that optimizing for the right of "ordinary people" to pursue jet set lifestyles is really in the best interest of humanity. I'm happy to let people travel. But "Let's ruin the planet for touristy shit and claim it to be some egalitarian ideal to open that path to less rich people so they can join in on that" is not really a value that strikes me as belonging in the wise and idealistic column. Mayhap we can find something better if we put a little effort into it.

istorical 7y ago
Can you explain why motels/hotels were better? In NYC it seems like a roomshare on airbnb in one of the boroughs is way cheaper than any motel or hotel you could find but I could see it being different in cheaper / lower cost of living cities.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  When I looked, they weren't actually cheaper. I never found something cheaper on Airbnb. Also, I had no car. Hotels always had some eateries and the like in walking distance. If an Airbnb is basically in the middle of fuck nowhere with no amenities nearby, it does you no good if you have no car and very limited funds. I stayed a lot in two hotels in Fresno. One had a Chipotle, McDonald's, two restaurants and a 7-11 right on top of it and the bus stop was also practically right on top of it. There was more shopping about a 15 or 20 minute walk away. The other had a Taco Bell practically up against it and more stuff a few minutes walk away even though it was in the worst part of town with the fewest amenities. This also meant it cost less than the other one.
DeonPenny 7y ago
Everything doesn't have to be for some overarching good. It has to be fair. it's not fair for people to have to lose money on property they bought to help the poorest of poor americans. Giving access to middle class americans to travel more is a noble ideal. Not everything that we paint morally right like taking property people bought and forcing them to rent to poorest of poor american is fair to renter and we shouldn't create a unfair system for the renters cause they have rights too.