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iPad Pro is better than any Mac
- plumeria 7y agoWhat about software? Do we get a terminal app? Can we install Docker?
- halyconWays 7y agoApple agrees too: it's a 100% locked-down computing device. Since when did geeks abandon the idea that you should be able to execute arbitrary code on a device you own? Not have to ask permission from a multinational company--and accept the answer "no" when the code is deemed too dangerous, subversive, or undercuts their preferred business model.
- wilg 7y agoMany devices you own do not allow you to execute arbitrary code, such as my microwave and toaster.
- nixpulvis 7y agoMy toaster is so simple I could probably fix it with a soldering iron and parts I found in the dumpster. What's your point?
- wilg 7y agoPeople do not (and should not) have an expectation of executing arbitrary code on all devices they own.
- nixpulvis 7y agoI absolutely have an expectation of being able to run arbitrary code on my devices! This is what a general purpose computer is. If not, how should developers (and hackers) work on stuff then? How should the curious budding programmer get inspired to create? Moreover, how should the motivated user fix a problem they found that the developers didn't consider? Are they beholden to the powers that be? Should they be? General purpose computers sparked a revolution of ideas, products, and productivity; now you'd take that away from us! Why?!
- wilg 7y agoMaking devices that are not general purpose computers does not take away general purpose computers.
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y agoWhen people start marketing iPads as replacements for notebook PCs, some users are expecting it to be able to do what they could do on their Mac OS or Linux machines.
- scarface74 7y agoSo whose fault is that - the users or Apple?
- nixpulvis 7y agoClearly Apple's for trying to sell us on this new vision for computing, which is just plain worse. Sorry.
- scarface74 7y agoSo people who are suppose to be good with computers aren’t intelligent enough to know how the iOS platform - that’s been out for 13 years - works?
- nixpulvis 7y agoYou're losing me in this line of reasoning... I know quite well how iOS works. The issue is, to make good software, you need users. If everyone is using iOS, there's no $/time/energy left for the others. To make progress with technology we can't be held hostage by our platforms, as Apple would have things. This is about having both the developers and the users put on the same playing field, and moving forward. Not backwards, like we've been going for years now. Sure there's been some steps in good directions, but ask yourself honestly if technology is truly working for you? Or are you working for technology?
- polotics 7y agoSeriously? Why? Do you have any reason justifying this statement?
- drivingmenuts 7y agoIt would be more accurate to say that the desired customer for these devices has no expectation of running arbitrary code on these devices. Apple is not going to stop you from purchasing the iPad, but they’re not going to deviate from their plans to accommodate you, either.
- nixpulvis 7y ago> Apple is not going to stop you from purchasing the iPad Um... Apple makes the iPad, I'd sure hope they aren't trying to stop me from buying it. You could leave this whole sentence off. So you're just saying that it's about accommodation, which I think it where the argument lies. Who's to say what's accommodating the users better? Apple? The market? Since we drive the market, I think hearing the opinions of developers, hackers (any kind), and common users is all valuable. A balance must be struck, and I'd say that the current version of iOS does not strike this balance as a replacement for a traditional computer, making Apple's claim false.
- drivingmenuts 7y agoI’m saying you’re not the user the devices are targeted toward. There are far more people who want to do things that don’t have a need to run arbitrary code than there are people who do. You seem to be assuming that everyone wants to be like you and tinker with things, but I assume exactly the opposite. These are devices for service consumption, not for service development, or really, any other kind of development, beyond the superficial.
- nixpulvis 7y agoThat's fine. That's the whole point of the word "general" in general purpose computer. It's good for me, it's good for you, it's good for us all! Rejoice, at the wisdom of our forefathers.
- threatofrain 7y agoIt's not people executing arbitrary code vs. them not getting access to apps outside the ecosystem, or that some apps are really privileged over others, making it a very unfair competition. Similarly, most people aren't going to be reading the documented output that comes from various gov't institutions, but they're not missing the impact of individual documents as opposed to the aggregate products that emerge from such information.
- b215826 7y agoNo one considers a microwave or toaster to be a general computing device. The iPad is at least marketed as one.
- wayneftw 7y agoThis is a bad example if you consider that microwaves and toasters are to food as computers are to code. These kitchen appliances aren't marked as running code at all, but they do accept food as input and produce cooked food as output just as computers accept program code as input and produce running software. That I can put many different types of food and breads into my microwaves and toasters (I am only limited by the capacity of the hardware) means that these appliances are actually much more like general purpose computers than they are like a locked-down iPad. One kitchen appliance that I think we can aptly relate to an iPad is the line of Keurig coffee machines that will only work with Keurig brand K-cups.
- wilg 7y agoWell, this analogy is not useful. The point is that it is okay for some devices to not run arbitrary code. There is no reason the iPad really needs to do that, other alternatives are available and most people do not need or want them. Building things requires tradeoffs, and the iPads make a reasonable tradeoff here.
- nixpulvis 7y agoIt seems they'd rather take control, than invest in proper solutions. They'd rather compete than collaborate. They'd rather obscure, than truly secure. They're just in it for the jobs and money, not for the long haul. Fuck that.
- new_realist 7y agoVetting binaries is the proper solution. Apple has never promised that the device could run your garage-built tinkercode, root kits, etc. Read the box before you buy.
- nixpulvis 7y agoThe first Apple computer was literally tinkercode built in a garage. Just saying. Nothing saying you can't still vet binaries, or better yet, the source itself.
- scarface74 7y agoSo you inspect the source code of everything you run? Did you find the HeartBleed bug that was in open source code for over 18 months?
- nixpulvis 7y agoNo, surely I don't / didn't. That's not the point at all. Security issues will ALWAYS exist, no matter how many bots at Apple check over the submissions. But why couldn't Apple open source their automated scanning software so I could run it locally? Why couldn't they publish reports on the state of application ecosystem? Why not release lists of sponsored developers (with signatures)? A paranoid organization can still not give users root, or install access. And secure OS could in theory not install things without checking them locally. Problem solved?
- scarface74 7y agoTheir “automated scanning software” basically just checks for calls to private methods. You don’t call private methods by accident.
- new_realist 7y agoAllowing arbitrary code execution on a consumer device is a recipe for a malware dumpster fire of epic proportions. You can’t run arbitrary code on a medical device, a car, or a jet aircraft, either. And yet they still work reliably, in no small part because of these restrictions.
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y agoiPad is not a jet, it's a general purpose consumer computer. And for some reason I'm not allowed to run a webserver on it, or simply run a background service that does the computations I need without bringing it to the foreground. No, I don't need manufacturer to tell me that it's for my own good because background tasks waste my battery.
- new_realist 7y agoIt’s a productivity device for consumers. You can’t trade in your 4x4 diesel truck for a convertible two-seater Miata and expect to haul an Airstream with it (and it would be illegal if you could) just as you can’t expect to run industrial tasks on a personal device. Different tasks for different devices. If you want to run your own code within the framework of iOS, you can become an Apple registered developer.
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y agoThe thing is, this "personal device" is quite capable of performing industrial tasks. It has great processing power, communication capabilities, storage and big battery. The only thing that prevents me from doing that is a set of restrictions imposed on me by Apple, and no, being a "registered developer" won't help me run a webserver on an iPad. Even Microsoft in their worst phase allowed users to do more with theirs PCs!
- rowanG077 7y agoRight... Because Macs are malware dumpsters fires of epic proportions.
- scarface74 7y agoBecause as a geek, I have a computer that can run anything I want. My iPad is an appliance without all of the cruft of computers.
- taylodl 7y agoNot sure what you're talking about. You can run whatever software you want in iOS. You don't even have to have built the app yourself. We do this all the time where I work - we create our own apps we distribute to our employees and we receive apps from vendors that aren't distributed through the app store. Yes it's a different process than we're normally accustomed to but it's certainly doable. Bottom line - no Apple approval is required to run whatever software you want on an iOS device.
- aquaticsunset 7y agoAdding the [opinion] to this title would be helpful. It's a thought provoking discussion, but one that I don't feel has changed much since the first iPad Pro came out in 2016. Its software really impedes "traditional computer" workflows, despite having really impressive leaps in hardware. A more accurate title, if I was to write this article, is "It's pretty amazing how capable and powerful the iPad has become". But comparing to the Mac, even when it ticks every single hardware box, still continues to fall very short as a Mac replacement.
- devmunchies 7y ago*for consumers
- nixpulvis 7y agoFalse. Even though macOS is deteriorating in my eyes, at least it's still an OS I kinda control, and can do with as I please. I challenge anyone developing systems software to use this new iPad as a replacement for their Mac.
- mister_hn 7y agoYou can even install Linux to replace MacOS X.
- nixpulvis 7y agoI haven't had a Mac in a while now... how well does Linux still work on Mac hardware? I'd expect some features to be difficult. Does WiFi and Sleep mode still work at least? Other basic features?
- mister_hn 7y agoUbuntu derivatives have an amazing support of Mac Hardware, sometimes works even better. https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-macos https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-...
- wilg 7y agoI still think a tablet is a fundamentally worse form factor than a laptop for most tasks. Such as what I am doing right now, typing while sitting on the couch. Even that cool new keyboard case seems like it would be unwieldy in this scenario. And when watching a movie, a laptop holds itself up with no accessories – useful pretty much any time you are watching something.
- pier25 7y agoYes, or in bed, or sitting with legs crossed.
- towb 7y agoWith the big screens and high resolutions on modern phones, all I use my iPad for is Netflix in bed, pretty much. Youtube before phone screens got large-ish. I don't want a tv in my bedroom, takes too much space, cables and dust and all that.
- nixpulvis 7y agoAgreed. Though a proper hybrid could exist (maybe already does, and I just haven't seen it). The key is that it works just like a normal laptop, but I can detach the screen somehow. The main challenge with this is of course, the battery.
- hajile 7y agoMy pixelbook strikes a great balance there. At 2.4 pounds, it's pretty light. The ipad weighs in at 1.5 pounds, but the keyboard adds back in most of that weight. I can run all the Android things and do "arbitrary code execution" with Linux as well. The tablet experience is pretty good overall too (not that I find myself wanting to use it that much).
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- thebiglebrewski 7y agoIf it could just run Mac OS with touch screen clicks that would be sa-weet. Love the form factor
- scarface74 7y agoA desktop OS with a touch screen worked so well with Windows....
- wayneftw 7y agoActually, it worked out very well for Windows 10. It's the most popular desktop operating system on the market with a global market share of about 40%. Every top PC manufacturer has a line of touch models and they've been continuing to make new models every year for the past 7 years, so they must be selling... I think a lot of people just repeat whatever Apple/Steve Jobs said, but if you look - Apple has a long history of poo-pooing things right up until they do it themselves. It's part of their corporate playbook. They switched to Intel CPUs after talking shit about them for decades. They switched to multi-touch after sticking to the single mouse button for so long, citing how more than one button was too complicated for people... That's what's happening now. Apple is trying to turn their iPad into a Surface. Of course the people who are wanting more freedom than iOS allows are going to be waiting a long time as Apple slowly and carefully adds general computing capabilities (as they have been doing), but in a way that stifles any sort of competition where they don't want it.
- scarface74 7y agoI have two Dell 2-1s I use regularly running Windows 10. My personal laptop and my work laptop, and I have a Dell. All the things wrong with Windows 10 as touch OS. - x86 is very power inefficient. Every benchmark shows that iPad Pros out perform most x86 laptops. iPads get 10+ hours battery life compared to 3-4 hours from both Dell’s when they were brand new. - Instant On/Standby time. My first gen iPad was still getting standby times of 3 weeks while still getting notifications 5 years in. Of course my 2017 $469 iPad with cellular will go about a month on standby. My laptops? They take forever to wake from sleep and standby time is not nearly as good. - Windows 10 is nowhere near as memory or CPU efficient as iPadOS. Can you imagine running Windows with 3GB RAM? The lowend surfaces had 4GB of RAM and ran horribly. - Most Windows apps and parts of the OS itself has still not been rewritten to be touch friendly. Microsoft Office is even a better experience on iPads than Windows using a touch screen. - Of course Windows on ARM has been a disaster. - the 16x9 display of my laptop is horrible in portrait and landscape trying to use the onscreen keyboard. As far as Jobs “talking shit about x86”, Next was already in the process of porting Next to x86 before Apple acquired them. Jobs admitted that they always had a port of OS X on x86. Also, the Mac supported multiple mouse buttons since MacOS 8.
- a_t48 7y ago> But the iPad Pro comes with a 120Hz Liquid Retina display with ProMotion technology, which can also slow down to show movies at 30 frames per second, as the movie gods intended. Movies are recorded at 24. If it were 30, there wouldn't be a need for a 120hz display to show movies without judder or adaptive refresh.
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y agoI'm not ready to replace any of my computers with the iPad unless I'm allowed to freely install and run any apps I need, and run them constantly in the background, not relying on APNS for push notifications to wake apps from sleep.
- rowanG077 7y agoIt frustrates me to no end that this perfect piece of hardware is so shackled by software that it's essentially useless to me. It feels like seeing a juicy steak on your plate but once you put a piece of it in your mouth it's just smoke...
- rcarmo 7y agoIf only Apple ported HyperKit over and let us run a fully sandboxed, virtualized ARM userland... iSH is great, but not enough.