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Surely the standardization matters? Teaching to an aptitude test is clearly counterproductive (and ditto tricks for hacking the test--like just testing each mu

Surely the standardization matters? Teaching to an aptitude test is clearly counterproductive (and ditto tricks for hacking the test--like just testing each multiple choice answer instead of solving an equation). On the other hand. the AP classes I took in high school (admittedly, a long time ago) seemed pretty reasonable. Perhaps you could quibble with how the syllabus weighted various subjects, or the (mercifully few) classes on how structure exam answers. Overall though, I felt like I got a decent education in Spanish/History/Physics/etc from those courses.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Diversity in knowledge across the working population would seem preferable to homogeneity to me. Sure you want some core things, like all engineers being able to solve 2nd order DEs, but outside that you want diversity if you're looking for innovation and application to diverse fields.
- mattkrause 7y ago
  In general, sure, but how much diversity you can reasonably expect for say, high school calculus? It’s not as though schools abandoned their infinitesimal-based curricula to match the AP syllabus better. The AP US History curriculum also kind of anticipates your critique: “As has been the case for all prior versions of the AP U.S. History course, this AP U.S. History course framework includes a minimal number of individual names: the founders, several presidents and party leaders, and other individuals who are almost universally taught in college-level U.S. history courses. As history teachers know well, the material in this framework cannot be taught without careful attention to the individuals, events, and documents of American history; however, to ensure teachers have flexibility to teach specific content that is valued locally and individually, the course avoids prescribing details that would require all teachers to teach the same historical examples. Each teacher is responsible for selecting specific individuals, events, and documents for student investigation of the material in the course framework.” https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/ap/pdf/ap-us-history-course-and-exam-description.pdf https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/ap/pdf/ap-us-history-cou... (Page 11/15) I would argue that it’s possible to have a good yet flexible standardized system; it’s just hard.
nicoburns 7y ago
I think it's the testing that's the problem, more so than the standardization (although standardization can definitely be taken too far to the point that it's unhelpful). You can of course have a standardized curriculum without any testing at all. Countries like Finland put far less emphasis on test results, and a lot more emphasis on teacher's assessment of their pupils. It seems like a much healthier system to me.
- mattkrause 7y ago
  I'd buy that, especially when the tests are optimized for "objective" automatic grading rather than written responses.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

Diversity in knowledge across the working population would seem preferable to homogeneity to me. Sure you want some core things, like all engineers being able to solve 2nd order DEs, but outside that you want diversity if you're looking for innovation and application to diverse fields.

mattkrause 7y ago
In general, sure, but how much diversity you can reasonably expect for say, high school calculus? It’s not as though schools abandoned their infinitesimal-based curricula to match the AP syllabus better. The AP US History curriculum also kind of anticipates your critique: “As has been the case for all prior versions of the AP U.S. History course, this AP U.S. History course framework includes a minimal number of individual names: the founders, several presidents and party leaders, and other individuals who are almost universally taught in college-level U.S. history courses. As history teachers know well, the material in this framework cannot be taught without careful attention to the individuals, events, and documents of American history; however, to ensure teachers have flexibility to teach specific content that is valued locally and individually, the course avoids prescribing details that would require all teachers to teach the same historical examples. Each teacher is responsible for selecting specific individuals, events, and documents for student investigation of the material in the course framework.” https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/ap/pdf/ap-us-history-course-and-exam-description.pdf https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/ap/pdf/ap-us-history-cou... (Page 11/15) I would argue that it’s possible to have a good yet flexible standardized system; it’s just hard.

nicoburns 7y ago

I think it's the testing that's the problem, more so than the standardization (although standardization can definitely be taken too far to the point that it's unhelpful). You can of course have a standardized curriculum without any testing at all. Countries like Finland put far less emphasis on test results, and a lot more emphasis on teacher's assessment of their pupils. It seems like a much healthier system to me.

mattkrause 7y ago
I'd buy that, especially when the tests are optimized for "objective" automatic grading rather than written responses.