9 ms·

Dilbert and Bogart On “F#(& You” Money

107 points by justinchen 16y ago

jonpaul 16y ago
I love the mindset behind the advice of having a little saved up. I currently have about $15k saved up. I fully intend to one day have real FU money. In the meantime though, having a small emergency fund that I'm adding to each month makes me feel like I don't have to take shit from my day job. I truly am not worried that if some day I was asked to do something completely unreasonable, I could essentially say FU and quit and work on my side business. This is only one small reason why people should have a small fund saved up.
erikstarck 16y ago
That's just one kind of money. There are other kinds. Like Fat Money. Money that drags you down and makes you slower. This is money from that investor that refuses to change. Or Sweat Money. This is money you’ve worked hard for to earn. This is the best kind. You value sweat money much higher than any other kind of money. And of course Ramen Money. The minimum amount of money you need to survive each month. More kinds of money here: http://blog.opportunitycloud.com/2010/06/30/different-kinds-of-money/ http://blog.opportunitycloud.com/2010/06/30/different-kinds-...
- benatkin 16y ago
  Nice post! I especially like the concept of Lazy Money. It describes what a stable situation is like. (Having a position which inspires true confidence would be a healthy situation.)
boredguy8 16y ago
I always liked this list of money metaphors. The difference between "renewable resource" and "fuel" or "building material" really hit home with my own bad perceptions of money. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/03/02/fools-and-their-money-metaphors/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/03/02/fools-and-their-money-m...
- gxs 16y ago
  Nice read, you should submit it on its own.
jleyank 16y ago
This also featured in the Soul of a New Machine.
Tycho 16y ago
I thought this was going to have something to do with F# the language. Like if you save up enough money, you can afford to program exclusively in a functional language without going bankrupt. 'F# money.'
- rbanffy 16y ago
  Alan Perlis once said "LISP programmers know the value of everything but the cost of nothing". It applies very nicely to other functional languages (much more than to Lisp) edit: BTW, there is a whole lot to discuss over this subject: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2265349 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2265349
edw519 16y ago
Like "Quick and Dirty", "Moral Majority", "Jumbo Shrimp", and "Military Intelligence", there is no such thing as "Fuck You Money". By definition, everyone I know who claims to have "Fuck You Money" doesn't have enough money to buy themselves class, humility, kindness, or inner peace. They're never happy because everyone else either: - has more "Fuck You Money" than they do, or - doesn't know how much "Fuck You Money" they really have If you really want more money so that you can say, "Fuck you" to others, you may want to consider an attitude adjustment before going after any more money.
- mrkurt 16y ago
  I think "fuck you" means something more along the lines of "no I won't sell cocaine to orphans so I can drive a nice car, fuck you" and less "fuck you mom".
- DerekL 16y ago
  You're misunderstanding what "Fuck You Money" is. It's not so you can say "Fuck You" to everyone they meet. The purpose is to be able to decline or quit jobs you don't like.
pyrhho 16y ago
I'm curious what the opinion of people here is as far as how much F-U-Money is "enough". Obviously it probably depends on your goals, but is there a reliable way of calculating the amount needed?
- CapitalistCartr 16y ago
  It depends on where you live, and what your minimum standard of living is. I will accept a low standard of living when its in pursuit of a goal, but just normal living here in Florida, I want about 50 k per year. Not a vast sum of money. Once I've got that, its hard to get me to change what I'm doing, unless its something I want on my own.
- petercooper 16y ago
  In the context of this article, $50k was my level where I stopped doing work I didn't necessarily "want" to do. Once I had that amount of money, I stopped hunting out for work and let work hunt me out while working on things that mattered to me. In terms of the larger "for life" FU money, that's one helluva calculation but it's been attempted in several posts on HN I believe. Paying off the mortgage and $50k p.a. for life would do it for me because I'd keep doing things that earned more money anyway. That'd just be enough to live reasonably comfortably if I got ill or whatever.
  - pyrhho 16y ago
    For those curious on where those calculations are (like I was), some of them are here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=295822 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=295822
droz 16y ago
what amount would you guys consider to be FU money? How long could you live off of that amount?
relequestual 16y ago
Awesome, just really awesome! =]
TheSOB88 16y ago
You guys all have your own definitions of 'fuck you' money, but for me this one has the best ring: http://www.violentacres.com/archives/41/fuck-you-money/ http://www.violentacres.com/archives/41/fuck-you-money/ Some kind of collector is trying to extort money from her, so she, well, I don't wanna ruin it. But she uses the money in a very creative way.
lwat 16y ago
I'm surprised $100 in 1920 translates to only $1000 today!
- pzxc 16y ago
  I'm surprised it's that much. 1000% inflation over 91 years is almost 11% per year. That's pretty serious inflation.
  - petercooper 16y ago
    11% inflation p.a. over 91 years on $100 would be $1331653. Calculation: 100 * pow(1.11, 91) - where ^ $100 to $1000 over 91 years is 2.56% inflation p.a. Calculation: pow(1000 / 100, 1 / 91) Please correct me where necessary math whizzes!
    - dandelany 16y ago
      This is correct. Average annual returns are not as simple as taking an arithmetic average of returns over the time period. This is because your first year's 2.56% return is not the same amount as your next year's - because the second year's return is 2.56% of the original capital PLUS the 2.56% you earned the year before... And so on and so forth. Hence your correct derivation of the "compound annual growth rate".
Enlightenment 16y ago
Every person needs a different amount of F##K You Money, because each person has different financial requirements. If you are singled, then once you have your house and vehicle(s) paid off, then the cost to live is fairly low. Nothing is like the feeling to have your largest loans paid off, because it empowers you to be able to tell your boss "F##K YOU".
CallMeV 16y ago
droz asks a good question. Who else has calculated their "fuck you money" threshold to the last penny, such that if they received that much cash from one or more jobs in a given period they can spend the rest of the year just going to expos and networking, or just sitting on some beach somewhere, knowing that all their bills and living expenses are covered? Considering where I live, my threshold's surprisingly low. If I double it, I'd put aside that surplus for my retirement. It's good to have the ambition of living without ambitions.
jasonkester 16y ago
Well said. Personally, I make a point of never letting my liquid savings drop below $10k. That's a full year's travelling money, so it keeps me perpetually in a state of "I can drop everything and go", thus protecting me from toxic consulting clients. If a relationship starts going downhill, I can simply retract my last invoice and wish them luck.

107 points by justinchen 16y ago

I love the mindset behind the advice of having a little saved up. I currently have about $15k saved up. I fully intend to one day have real FU money. In the meantime though, having a small emergency fund that I'm adding to each month makes me feel like I don't have to take shit from my day job. I truly am not worried that if some day I was asked to do something completely unreasonable, I could essentially say FU and quit and work on my side business. This is only one small reason why people should have a small fund saved up.

erikstarck 16y ago

That's just one kind of money. There are other kinds. Like Fat Money. Money that drags you down and makes you slower. This is money from that investor that refuses to change. Or Sweat Money. This is money you’ve worked hard for to earn. This is the best kind. You value sweat money much higher than any other kind of money. And of course Ramen Money. The minimum amount of money you need to survive each month. More kinds of money here: http://blog.opportunitycloud.com/2010/06/30/different-kinds-of-money/ http://blog.opportunitycloud.com/2010/06/30/different-kinds-...

benatkin 16y ago
Nice post! I especially like the concept of Lazy Money. It describes what a stable situation is like. (Having a position which inspires true confidence would be a healthy situation.)

boredguy8 16y ago

I always liked this list of money metaphors. The difference between "renewable resource" and "fuel" or "building material" really hit home with my own bad perceptions of money. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/03/02/fools-and-their-money-metaphors/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/03/02/fools-and-their-money-m...

gxs 16y ago
Nice read, you should submit it on its own.

jleyank 16y ago

This also featured in the Soul of a New Machine.

Tycho 16y ago

I thought this was going to have something to do with F# the language. Like if you save up enough money, you can afford to program exclusively in a functional language without going bankrupt. 'F# money.'

rbanffy 16y ago
Alan Perlis once said "LISP programmers know the value of everything but the cost of nothing". It applies very nicely to other functional languages (much more than to Lisp) edit: BTW, there is a whole lot to discuss over this subject: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2265349 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2265349

edw519 16y ago

Like "Quick and Dirty", "Moral Majority", "Jumbo Shrimp", and "Military Intelligence", there is no such thing as "Fuck You Money". By definition, everyone I know who claims to have "Fuck You Money" doesn't have enough money to buy themselves class, humility, kindness, or inner peace. They're never happy because everyone else either: - has more "Fuck You Money" than they do, or - doesn't know how much "Fuck You Money" they really have If you really want more money so that you can say, "Fuck you" to others, you may want to consider an attitude adjustment before going after any more money.

mrkurt 16y ago
I think "fuck you" means something more along the lines of "no I won't sell cocaine to orphans so I can drive a nice car, fuck you" and less "fuck you mom".
DerekL 16y ago
You're misunderstanding what "Fuck You Money" is. It's not so you can say "Fuck You" to everyone they meet. The purpose is to be able to decline or quit jobs you don't like.

pyrhho 16y ago

I'm curious what the opinion of people here is as far as how much F-U-Money is "enough". Obviously it probably depends on your goals, but is there a reliable way of calculating the amount needed?

CapitalistCartr 16y ago
It depends on where you live, and what your minimum standard of living is. I will accept a low standard of living when its in pursuit of a goal, but just normal living here in Florida, I want about 50 k per year. Not a vast sum of money. Once I've got that, its hard to get me to change what I'm doing, unless its something I want on my own.
petercooper 16y ago
In the context of this article, $50k was my level where I stopped doing work I didn't necessarily "want" to do. Once I had that amount of money, I stopped hunting out for work and let work hunt me out while working on things that mattered to me. In terms of the larger "for life" FU money, that's one helluva calculation but it's been attempted in several posts on HN I believe. Paying off the mortgage and $50k p.a. for life would do it for me because I'd keep doing things that earned more money anyway. That'd just be enough to live reasonably comfortably if I got ill or whatever.
- pyrhho 16y ago
  For those curious on where those calculations are (like I was), some of them are here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=295822 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=295822

droz 16y ago

what amount would you guys consider to be FU money? How long could you live off of that amount?

relequestual 16y ago

Awesome, just really awesome! =]

TheSOB88 16y ago

You guys all have your own definitions of 'fuck you' money, but for me this one has the best ring: http://www.violentacres.com/archives/41/fuck-you-money/ http://www.violentacres.com/archives/41/fuck-you-money/ Some kind of collector is trying to extort money from her, so she, well, I don't wanna ruin it. But she uses the money in a very creative way.

lwat 16y ago

I'm surprised $100 in 1920 translates to only $1000 today!

pzxc 16y ago
I'm surprised it's that much. 1000% inflation over 91 years is almost 11% per year. That's pretty serious inflation.
- petercooper 16y ago
  11% inflation p.a. over 91 years on $100 would be $1331653. Calculation: 100 * pow(1.11, 91) - where ^ $100 to $1000 over 91 years is 2.56% inflation p.a. Calculation: pow(1000 / 100, 1 / 91) Please correct me where necessary math whizzes!
  - dandelany 16y ago
    This is correct. Average annual returns are not as simple as taking an arithmetic average of returns over the time period. This is because your first year's 2.56% return is not the same amount as your next year's - because the second year's return is 2.56% of the original capital PLUS the 2.56% you earned the year before... And so on and so forth. Hence your correct derivation of the "compound annual growth rate".

Enlightenment 16y ago

Every person needs a different amount of F##K You Money, because each person has different financial requirements. If you are singled, then once you have your house and vehicle(s) paid off, then the cost to live is fairly low. Nothing is like the feeling to have your largest loans paid off, because it empowers you to be able to tell your boss "F##K YOU".

CallMeV 16y ago

droz asks a good question. Who else has calculated their "fuck you money" threshold to the last penny, such that if they received that much cash from one or more jobs in a given period they can spend the rest of the year just going to expos and networking, or just sitting on some beach somewhere, knowing that all their bills and living expenses are covered? Considering where I live, my threshold's surprisingly low. If I double it, I'd put aside that surplus for my retirement. It's good to have the ambition of living without ambitions.

jasonkester 16y ago

Well said. Personally, I make a point of never letting my liquid savings drop below $10k. That's a full year's travelling money, so it keeps me perpetually in a state of "I can drop everything and go", thus protecting me from toxic consulting clients. If a relationship starts going downhill, I can simply retract my last invoice and wish them luck.