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The least we can demand for these bailouts is that executive bonus of last years will be returned. These companies don't deserve bailouts and should all go into

The least we can demand for these bailouts is that executive bonus of last years will be returned. These companies don't deserve bailouts and should all go into chapter 11. We got all severely fucked last time. Boeing bought for $52 billion shares back and now they want $60? I hope Donald Trump is going to push his Tough guy act now. If he says no to all the bailouts he is going to be remembered as the best president ever.

darksaints 7y ago
The only tough guy act that Trump will play is for election support. He'll gladly bail out any company that supports his reelection, and play tough guy to any company that doesn't. And there are no possible circumstances where he'll be remembered as the best president ever. He's fighting for 44th place.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >He'll gladly bail out any company that supports his reelection, and play tough guy to any company that doesn't. A more generous reading of this strategy is that Trump will do what the people want. I fail to see how that's any worse than someone in Washington saying they know what's best, or tat we need to "tighten our belts". >He's fighting for 44th place. In a survey of Californians maybe. You're sorely mistaken if you don't think Trump is popular, and might be surprised (again) in November. Will the Democrats blame the Russians again?
newen 7y ago
Trump is stuck between Wall Street and his base, I think. He is going to be crucified by his base if he bails out large companies like Obama did.
- frandroid 7y ago
  If he's not crucified by his base for letting the disease go rampant, he won't get crucified for anything else. In any rational country his approval ratings would be in the teens, not the forties, right now.
  - aguyfromnb 7y ago
    >If he's not crucified by his base for letting the disease go rampant For his small part in this, it was mismanaged, certainly. But if you think that the reason Covid-19 is spreading is because "Trump let it happen", you have an interesting view of how the institutions work.
    - sdenton4 7y ago
      Firing the pandemic department certainly doesn't help... For starters. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/
    - frandroid 7y ago
      He's been in denial for weeks, event calling it a Democratic Party hoax to try to take him down, instead of starting to take early measures.
  - ses1984 7y ago
    But being crucified for letting the disease go rampant would be totally reasonable and his base isn't that.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  His base will be more worried about their 401k/IRA/pension benefits. Everyone talks the talk about bailouts, but once it hits their accounts they are all for it.
  - silverreads 7y ago
    Don't most corporate bailouts negatively impact their employee retirement prospects? I'm thinking of GM and Hostess in particular at the moment. The only winners seem to be the investors.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      I’m referring to everyone being invested in index funds, even via their defined benefit pensions. If SP500 goes up, then everyone’s net “worth” goes up.
vsareto 7y ago
Trump will bail out any company that has a large blue collar workforce. I really doubt they will be tough on the bailout terms, either. The onus of the failure will be put onto Covid-19 rather than any kind of mismanagement or misconduct or buy backs.
frandroid 7y ago
1) Hoping Trump will have a backbone when facing corporate cronies 2) Hoping that executives will skip bonuses, after seeing what happened to Wall Street in 2008 In the old language of my ancestors, rotfl.
skrtskrt 7y ago
All the industries they are looking at bailing out already are huge political donors: airlines, oil & gas, etc. These industries have already priced in that they can do whatever the hell they want, completely fall apart and they will get bailed out. They know that: 1. They are needed, or seen as needed by politicians 2. The appetite for true nationalization of industries is extremely low in the US, so they will get bailed out instead of taken over by govt.
- kazagistar 7y ago
  The oligarchic control over power is something that can change very very fast.
  - gentleman11 7y ago
    If it can change very fast, it’s not real power
quickthrowman 7y ago
Boeing unfortunately has to be bailed out, if we as a world want airplane as a method of transportation. It’s only Boeing and Airbus, there are no others. Management should be punished excessively as a warning to others, though I do not expect them to be punished at all.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > Boeing unfortunately has to be bailed out, if we as a world want airplane as a method of transportation. It’s only Boeing and Airbus, there are no others. Somehow I suspect that if the earth swallowed every employee of Boeing and Airbus, and every plane ever produced by either, there would be more airplanes and more airplane manufacturers soon enough.
  - Zenst 7y ago
    Sure, eventually and corners will be cut to expedite that long development and testing window. May even be better in the end, though let's say the USSR and NASA stopped space launch vechiles - how long would it take to make an alternative. Longer than we appreciate.
    - ourmandave 7y ago
      Sure, eventually and corners will be cut to expedite that long development and testing window. So, still Boeing.
  - drKarl 7y ago
    Maybe Elon Musk would just create a branch off Space X and manufacture airplanes...
    - sdenton4 7y ago
      Ahh yes... The "switch editor" button in Kerbal space program to the rescue.
    - andbberger 7y ago
jimbob45 7y ago
Obama's biggest fault was that he didn't sell the American people on the inarguably excellent deal he got on the bailouts. The American people did profit off of those and most people don't know that because he didn't make a big deal about it. Conversely, Trump, if he knows nothing else, knows how to focus doggedly on what's going to excite his base. If he can sell his base on the idea of loan-sharking Boeing (which is a legitimate strategy), then he'll come out looking like a winner, despite the fact that he'll have done the exact same thing as Obama. Remember, never let your accomplishments go unrecognized by those you serve. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret-revealed/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret...
- mrlala 7y ago
  I get what you are saying but I disagree with 100% of what you wrote.
- LanceH 7y ago
  According to "The Balance" - https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670 https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chr... Taxpayers lost $10.2 billion. Are those the bailouts you're talking about. There was a brief period where loans were paid back profitably but everyone crowing about profits was ignoring that the rest of the loans were booked against stock which was heavily underwater and later liquidated at substantial losses. I don't know who The Balance is but these numbers seem consistent from other sources I just looked at. Please correct me if I have this wrong (not being snarky) -- what I think I know is comprised of varied articles spread across years.
  - NickM 7y ago
    The auto industry bailout was a loss, but that was smaller than many of the other bailouts, and most of the bailouts were profitable. In net, taxpayers came out substantially ahead in the end. Not that making a direct profit was even the goal of the bailouts, but it sure is nice that we made money off of them on top of saving the economy. https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2017-01-19/financial-crisis-bailouts-have-earned-taxpayers-billions https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2017-01-19/finan...
Tobani 7y ago
Why don't they just sell stock? They were playing a speculative game and bought high, now they have to sell low. OOPS
- awinder 7y ago
  Realistically it’s because they’re not going to sell low, but they may just fire a ton of people, max profits, and then sell. There’s a balance of funding to dissuade making that decision, especially when there’s a natural disaster occurring that does have some expiration date.
  - berryjerry 7y ago
    Because their not going to is not a reason. They should in fact issue more shares, diluting the current ownership. No one wants to buy them because no one has money and so they have to sell extra low.

darksaints 7y ago

The only tough guy act that Trump will play is for election support. He'll gladly bail out any company that supports his reelection, and play tough guy to any company that doesn't. And there are no possible circumstances where he'll be remembered as the best president ever. He's fighting for 44th place.

aguyfromnb 7y ago
>He'll gladly bail out any company that supports his reelection, and play tough guy to any company that doesn't. A more generous reading of this strategy is that Trump will do what the people want. I fail to see how that's any worse than someone in Washington saying they know what's best, or tat we need to "tighten our belts". >He's fighting for 44th place. In a survey of Californians maybe. You're sorely mistaken if you don't think Trump is popular, and might be surprised (again) in November. Will the Democrats blame the Russians again?

newen 7y ago

Trump is stuck between Wall Street and his base, I think. He is going to be crucified by his base if he bails out large companies like Obama did.

frandroid 7y ago
If he's not crucified by his base for letting the disease go rampant, he won't get crucified for anything else. In any rational country his approval ratings would be in the teens, not the forties, right now.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >If he's not crucified by his base for letting the disease go rampant For his small part in this, it was mismanaged, certainly. But if you think that the reason Covid-19 is spreading is because "Trump let it happen", you have an interesting view of how the institutions work.
  - sdenton4 7y ago
    Firing the pandemic department certainly doesn't help... For starters. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/
  - frandroid 7y ago
    He's been in denial for weeks, event calling it a Democratic Party hoax to try to take him down, instead of starting to take early measures.
- ses1984 7y ago
  But being crucified for letting the disease go rampant would be totally reasonable and his base isn't that.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
His base will be more worried about their 401k/IRA/pension benefits. Everyone talks the talk about bailouts, but once it hits their accounts they are all for it.
- silverreads 7y ago
  Don't most corporate bailouts negatively impact their employee retirement prospects? I'm thinking of GM and Hostess in particular at the moment. The only winners seem to be the investors.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    I’m referring to everyone being invested in index funds, even via their defined benefit pensions. If SP500 goes up, then everyone’s net “worth” goes up.

vsareto 7y ago

Trump will bail out any company that has a large blue collar workforce. I really doubt they will be tough on the bailout terms, either. The onus of the failure will be put onto Covid-19 rather than any kind of mismanagement or misconduct or buy backs.

frandroid 7y ago

1) Hoping Trump will have a backbone when facing corporate cronies 2) Hoping that executives will skip bonuses, after seeing what happened to Wall Street in 2008 In the old language of my ancestors, rotfl.

skrtskrt 7y ago

All the industries they are looking at bailing out already are huge political donors: airlines, oil & gas, etc. These industries have already priced in that they can do whatever the hell they want, completely fall apart and they will get bailed out. They know that: 1. They are needed, or seen as needed by politicians 2. The appetite for true nationalization of industries is extremely low in the US, so they will get bailed out instead of taken over by govt.

kazagistar 7y ago
The oligarchic control over power is something that can change very very fast.
- gentleman11 7y ago
  If it can change very fast, it’s not real power

quickthrowman 7y ago

Boeing unfortunately has to be bailed out, if we as a world want airplane as a method of transportation. It’s only Boeing and Airbus, there are no others. Management should be punished excessively as a warning to others, though I do not expect them to be punished at all.

thaumasiotes 7y ago
> Boeing unfortunately has to be bailed out, if we as a world want airplane as a method of transportation. It’s only Boeing and Airbus, there are no others. Somehow I suspect that if the earth swallowed every employee of Boeing and Airbus, and every plane ever produced by either, there would be more airplanes and more airplane manufacturers soon enough.
- Zenst 7y ago
  Sure, eventually and corners will be cut to expedite that long development and testing window. May even be better in the end, though let's say the USSR and NASA stopped space launch vechiles - how long would it take to make an alternative. Longer than we appreciate.
  - ourmandave 7y ago
    Sure, eventually and corners will be cut to expedite that long development and testing window. So, still Boeing.
- drKarl 7y ago
  Maybe Elon Musk would just create a branch off Space X and manufacture airplanes...
  - sdenton4 7y ago
    Ahh yes... The "switch editor" button in Kerbal space program to the rescue.
  - andbberger 7y ago

jimbob45 7y ago

Obama's biggest fault was that he didn't sell the American people on the inarguably excellent deal he got on the bailouts. The American people did profit off of those and most people don't know that because he didn't make a big deal about it. Conversely, Trump, if he knows nothing else, knows how to focus doggedly on what's going to excite his base. If he can sell his base on the idea of loan-sharking Boeing (which is a legitimate strategy), then he'll come out looking like a winner, despite the fact that he'll have done the exact same thing as Obama. Remember, never let your accomplishments go unrecognized by those you serve. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret-revealed/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret...

mrlala 7y ago
I get what you are saying but I disagree with 100% of what you wrote.
LanceH 7y ago
According to "The Balance" - https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670 https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chr... Taxpayers lost $10.2 billion. Are those the bailouts you're talking about. There was a brief period where loans were paid back profitably but everyone crowing about profits was ignoring that the rest of the loans were booked against stock which was heavily underwater and later liquidated at substantial losses. I don't know who The Balance is but these numbers seem consistent from other sources I just looked at. Please correct me if I have this wrong (not being snarky) -- what I think I know is comprised of varied articles spread across years.
- NickM 7y ago
  The auto industry bailout was a loss, but that was smaller than many of the other bailouts, and most of the bailouts were profitable. In net, taxpayers came out substantially ahead in the end. Not that making a direct profit was even the goal of the bailouts, but it sure is nice that we made money off of them on top of saving the economy. https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2017-01-19/financial-crisis-bailouts-have-earned-taxpayers-billions https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2017-01-19/finan...

Tobani 7y ago

Why don't they just sell stock? They were playing a speculative game and bought high, now they have to sell low. OOPS

awinder 7y ago
Realistically it’s because they’re not going to sell low, but they may just fire a ton of people, max profits, and then sell. There’s a balance of funding to dissuade making that decision, especially when there’s a natural disaster occurring that does have some expiration date.
- berryjerry 7y ago
  Because their not going to is not a reason. They should in fact issue more shares, diluting the current ownership. No one wants to buy them because no one has money and so they have to sell extra low.