5 ms·

This is a device that doesn't support other browser rendering engines or even toy compilers, long way to go before something like VSCode could be possible, a pr

This is a device that doesn't support other browser rendering engines or even toy compilers, long way to go before something like VSCode could be possible, a product that let's you trivially slipstream in any renderer/script engine/compiler you want at a single click. Plus would it really be an "iPad" with you sacrifice the whole security model to allow debugging?

amluto 7y ago
How exactly would debugging sacrifice the security model?
- eugeniub 7y ago
  Yeah and the iPad already allows code execution/debugging with Playgrounds, Pythonista, etc. You can even run a full Linux shell locally on an iPad with iSH (https://ish.app/ https://ish.app/).
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    The discussion is debugging other processes, none of those can do that. If you cannot hook and debug e.g. Node.js then VSCode on iPad isn't useful.
    - BillinghamJ 7y ago
      An awful lot of people use VSC without ever using its debugging features.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  Debugging allows arbitrary code execution. Essentially you allow developers to debug running applications on their iPad, you allow them to run any code they want on it (maybe with extra steps, but that is the unavoidable inevitable result). I'm not against it, but I am saying that's quite different from the iPad's current security model. You're giving developers root, maybe with extra steps, but root none the less.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    If arbitrary code execution means trivial privilege escalation, your OS is broken.
    - jyrkesh 7y ago
      Arbitrary code execution requires some kind of privilege escalation. If it's impossible, I don't have much interest in your OS.
      - amluto 7y ago
        That is only true under an odd definition of privilege. There are certainly hardening and auditing benefits of preventing arbitrary code execution, but defining code execution itself as a form of privilege in and of itself is unusual.
  - caleb-allen 7y ago
    I understand why Apple does this, but having owned an iPad without ever successfully being productive on it I just wish I could get root if I really want to. I wish it were hackable. Revoke my warranty, do whatever, just let me use the device I bought! It's gotta be the most beautiful hardware of a machine I've seen. It's a shame the software is so anti-user.
  - kllrnohj 7y ago
    > You're giving developers root, maybe with extra steps, but root none the less. No you aren't. It's arbitrary code execution in the target app's sandbox which is already doing arbitrary code execution in the first place. You know, the thing that you compiled & ran before you ever attached a debugger? Every iOS app is already doing arbitrary code execution. That's the whole point of apps. And the security model holds up just fine. iOS's restrictions on JIT'ing is about App Store control, not security.
emsy 7y ago
> Plus would it really be an "iPad" with you sacrifice the whole security model to allow debugging? The security model being that you need to be attached to a Mac to allow debugging? Other than that I'm totally with you. The ipad is far away from being a frictionless, general computation device.
- Godel_unicode 7y ago
  The security model being that debugging requires the user to take significant steps, and isn't something apps can just do silently, yes.
acoard 7y ago
VS Code has incredibly good "remote" debugging setups. [0] You can install a VS Code "server" on e.g. your Linux developer machine, then connect to it via your VS Code "client" on your iPad. You get local intellisense and the like, but actual execution of code is done on your Linux server. You can replace Linux server with Windows, or even containers (so you can have your "server" be a local Linux docker image if you're on Windows but want to develop locally on Linux, for example). I realize this is a higher barrier to use, but I could seriously see using it in this way. [0] https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview
- babaganoosh89 7y ago
  It's more usable to use jump desktop and vnc into your desktop computer to use vs code.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- disqard 7y ago
  I am currently attempting to use an iPad Pro in this fashion (code server running on a DO droplet)... it is quite difficult and developer-hostile. For instance, until I upgraded the OS to iPadOS (it was on iOS 13.3), the cursor keys on my bluetooth keyboard did not move the cursor inside the code editor pane! Also, if you have anything at all copied to the iPad's clipboard, pressing the Escape key (say I'm using Vim inside the VSCode "terminal" pane) will reveal iPadOS's own clipboard popup. Overall, I strongly recommend staying away from this setup for any serious remote VSCode work.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > the cursor keys on my bluetooth keyboard did not move the cursor inside the code editor pane This is a bug with Monaco, Visual Studio Code’s editor component, which does not support mobile browsers.
oefrha 7y ago
The platform does support not only toy compilers but also full compilers, albeit through user mode emulation, so don’t even think about performance. See iSH: https://ish.app/ https://ish.app/
wool_gather 7y ago
"toy compilers" FYI, there are at least two. The Swift playgrounds app. And Pythonista, which is actually quite a nice IDE for small projects, and even lets you build GUIs.
AgloeDreams 7y ago
Take a look at how ChromeOS accomplishes Crostini in containers for a great way to get everything you want with near-zero security hit.

amluto 7y ago

How exactly would debugging sacrifice the security model?

eugeniub 7y ago
Yeah and the iPad already allows code execution/debugging with Playgrounds, Pythonista, etc. You can even run a full Linux shell locally on an iPad with iSH (https://ish.app/ https://ish.app/).
- Someone1234 7y ago
  The discussion is debugging other processes, none of those can do that. If you cannot hook and debug e.g. Node.js then VSCode on iPad isn't useful.
  - BillinghamJ 7y ago
    An awful lot of people use VSC without ever using its debugging features.
Someone1234 7y ago
Debugging allows arbitrary code execution. Essentially you allow developers to debug running applications on their iPad, you allow them to run any code they want on it (maybe with extra steps, but that is the unavoidable inevitable result). I'm not against it, but I am saying that's quite different from the iPad's current security model. You're giving developers root, maybe with extra steps, but root none the less.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  If arbitrary code execution means trivial privilege escalation, your OS is broken.
  - jyrkesh 7y ago
    Arbitrary code execution requires some kind of privilege escalation. If it's impossible, I don't have much interest in your OS.
    - amluto 7y ago
      That is only true under an odd definition of privilege. There are certainly hardening and auditing benefits of preventing arbitrary code execution, but defining code execution itself as a form of privilege in and of itself is unusual.
- caleb-allen 7y ago
  I understand why Apple does this, but having owned an iPad without ever successfully being productive on it I just wish I could get root if I really want to. I wish it were hackable. Revoke my warranty, do whatever, just let me use the device I bought! It's gotta be the most beautiful hardware of a machine I've seen. It's a shame the software is so anti-user.
- kllrnohj 7y ago
  > You're giving developers root, maybe with extra steps, but root none the less. No you aren't. It's arbitrary code execution in the target app's sandbox which is already doing arbitrary code execution in the first place. You know, the thing that you compiled & ran before you ever attached a debugger? Every iOS app is already doing arbitrary code execution. That's the whole point of apps. And the security model holds up just fine. iOS's restrictions on JIT'ing is about App Store control, not security.

emsy 7y ago

> Plus would it really be an "iPad" with you sacrifice the whole security model to allow debugging? The security model being that you need to be attached to a Mac to allow debugging? Other than that I'm totally with you. The ipad is far away from being a frictionless, general computation device.

Godel_unicode 7y ago
The security model being that debugging requires the user to take significant steps, and isn't something apps can just do silently, yes.

acoard 7y ago

VS Code has incredibly good "remote" debugging setups. [0] You can install a VS Code "server" on e.g. your Linux developer machine, then connect to it via your VS Code "client" on your iPad. You get local intellisense and the like, but actual execution of code is done on your Linux server. You can replace Linux server with Windows, or even containers (so you can have your "server" be a local Linux docker image if you're on Windows but want to develop locally on Linux, for example). I realize this is a higher barrier to use, but I could seriously see using it in this way. [0] https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview

babaganoosh89 7y ago
It's more usable to use jump desktop and vnc into your desktop computer to use vs code.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
disqard 7y ago
I am currently attempting to use an iPad Pro in this fashion (code server running on a DO droplet)... it is quite difficult and developer-hostile. For instance, until I upgraded the OS to iPadOS (it was on iOS 13.3), the cursor keys on my bluetooth keyboard did not move the cursor inside the code editor pane! Also, if you have anything at all copied to the iPad's clipboard, pressing the Escape key (say I'm using Vim inside the VSCode "terminal" pane) will reveal iPadOS's own clipboard popup. Overall, I strongly recommend staying away from this setup for any serious remote VSCode work.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > the cursor keys on my bluetooth keyboard did not move the cursor inside the code editor pane This is a bug with Monaco, Visual Studio Code’s editor component, which does not support mobile browsers.

oefrha 7y ago

The platform does support not only toy compilers but also full compilers, albeit through user mode emulation, so don’t even think about performance. See iSH: https://ish.app/ https://ish.app/

wool_gather 7y ago

"toy compilers" FYI, there are at least two. The Swift playgrounds app. And Pythonista, which is actually quite a nice IDE for small projects, and even lets you build GUIs.

AgloeDreams 7y ago

Take a look at how ChromeOS accomplishes Crostini in containers for a great way to get everything you want with near-zero security hit.