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I think there's some good points in there, but I'm not sure about this one: "Firefox is filling up with ads, tracking, and mandatory plugins." I feel like I f

I think there's some good points in there, but I'm not sure about this one: "Firefox is filling up with ads, tracking, and mandatory plugins." I feel like I follow these issues pretty close, and I don't think that's accurate. Did I miss somethings? I know they've made at least a few bad moves, but in general they do the right thing, and have stepped back some of the bad things. It's entirely possible I'm missing something though.

ddevault 7y ago
Ads: https://www.ghacks.net/2018/12/31/firefox-with-ads-on-new-tab-page/ https://www.ghacks.net/2018/12/31/firefox-with-ads-on-new-ta... https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-60-will-show-sponsored-stories-but-you-can-disable-them-says-mozilla/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-60-will-show-sponsored... Tracking: https://gist.github.com/0XDE57/fbd302cef7693e62c769 https://gist.github.com/0XDE57/fbd302cef7693e62c769 https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-which-slurps-user-browsing-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-whi... (ads, too) Mandatory plugins: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9667809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9667809 There are more cases of each, but these are the ones I thought of off-hand. Setting up Firefox today still requires you to manually go to about:config and turn off a whole bunch of crap. A stock install of Firefox has ads and sends telemetry, searches, and more to both third- and first-party network services.
- progval 7y ago
  > Setting up Firefox today still requires you to manually go to about:config and turn off a whole bunch of crap. An alternative is to use packages provided by Debian (and possibly other distributions), which turn most of this stuff off by default
  - 72deluxe 7y ago
    But but but how do I do this on my Mac and Windows machines?? Time to go back to Linux. Hopefully the desktop has improved since the abandonment of 30-year-old UI paradigms for "cleanliness and focus".
- pornel 7y ago
  These are totally bullshit things blown out of proportion. These are trials that never went live, and/or weren't even nearly as bad as the uproar make them to be. Come on, the Pocket hysteria? It's a bit of JS and a one button you can turn off with two clicks. Pocket is now owned by Mozilla. It's a Firefox feature now, and not any more of "mandatory plugin" than the Sync or Add On Store are. I thought you were at least flipping out about EME, which is a 3rd party code and actually a plug-in. Your central point is valid. There's no need to embellish it with clickbait backed by sources that are clickbait themselves.
  - ddevault 7y ago
    [copied from the same thread on Lobsters] All of these things went live to end-users, without informed consent. Some of this is still live today. I'll kindly ask you to quit the bullshit.
    - cycloptic 7y ago
      So... then disable them using the instructions on that github gist that you already linked? What exactly is the gripe here? There is no need for a fork when you've already disseminated the information needed to rectify the problem. I don't know what else anyone would consider adequate -- web advertising and tracking is not going to magically go away or diminish just because browsers have less features. Focus on one thing at a time, please.
      - JohnFen 7y ago
        > I don't know what else anyone would consider adequate I'd consider opt-in rather than opt-out to be adequate.
        cycloptic 7y ago
        This is splitting hairs. You can easily use (or make) a downstream distribution of Firefox where that is the case. No forking required, just ship a default config. This still would be a reasonable course of action even if your real concern is what is adequate for the wider community, not just for yourself. Threatening to switch to another browser isn't going to help because anything you switch to at this point is going to be a fork of Chrome or Firefox, probably with additional ads and tracking added from the other downstream vendor. Like it or not this is the funding model of the web. Edit: I haven't checked in a while but I believe there are actually already several privacy-focused forks of these browsers that ship with the default configs changed to remove ads and tracking, among other things.
vikingcaffiene 7y ago
Lost me there too. FF has had a few foibles but has course corrected quickly. It's my daily driver and certainly haven't seen anything like that happening.
raxxorrax 7y ago
The only negative thing that comes to mind is pocket. DoH is also controversial due to the implementation, but at least I understand the incentive they had. I just hope Firefox keeps being a real counterpart to Chrome and doesn't try to mirror it. Funding is a problem as Mozilla is far too dependant on Google, but I don't know a solution to that.
- buzzkillington 7y ago
  Fire everyone who directly responsible for development of the browser, pay managers $1 per year.

ddevault 7y ago

Ads: https://www.ghacks.net/2018/12/31/firefox-with-ads-on-new-tab-page/ https://www.ghacks.net/2018/12/31/firefox-with-ads-on-new-ta... https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-60-will-show-sponsored-stories-but-you-can-disable-them-says-mozilla/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-60-will-show-sponsored... Tracking: https://gist.github.com/0XDE57/fbd302cef7693e62c769 https://gist.github.com/0XDE57/fbd302cef7693e62c769 https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-which-slurps-user-browsing-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-whi... (ads, too) Mandatory plugins: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9667809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9667809 There are more cases of each, but these are the ones I thought of off-hand. Setting up Firefox today still requires you to manually go to about:config and turn off a whole bunch of crap. A stock install of Firefox has ads and sends telemetry, searches, and more to both third- and first-party network services.

progval 7y ago
> Setting up Firefox today still requires you to manually go to about:config and turn off a whole bunch of crap. An alternative is to use packages provided by Debian (and possibly other distributions), which turn most of this stuff off by default
- 72deluxe 7y ago
  But but but how do I do this on my Mac and Windows machines?? Time to go back to Linux. Hopefully the desktop has improved since the abandonment of 30-year-old UI paradigms for "cleanliness and focus".
pornel 7y ago
These are totally bullshit things blown out of proportion. These are trials that never went live, and/or weren't even nearly as bad as the uproar make them to be. Come on, the Pocket hysteria? It's a bit of JS and a one button you can turn off with two clicks. Pocket is now owned by Mozilla. It's a Firefox feature now, and not any more of "mandatory plugin" than the Sync or Add On Store are. I thought you were at least flipping out about EME, which is a 3rd party code and actually a plug-in. Your central point is valid. There's no need to embellish it with clickbait backed by sources that are clickbait themselves.
- ddevault 7y ago
  [copied from the same thread on Lobsters] All of these things went live to end-users, without informed consent. Some of this is still live today. I'll kindly ask you to quit the bullshit.
  - cycloptic 7y ago
    So... then disable them using the instructions on that github gist that you already linked? What exactly is the gripe here? There is no need for a fork when you've already disseminated the information needed to rectify the problem. I don't know what else anyone would consider adequate -- web advertising and tracking is not going to magically go away or diminish just because browsers have less features. Focus on one thing at a time, please.
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      > I don't know what else anyone would consider adequate I'd consider opt-in rather than opt-out to be adequate.
      - cycloptic 7y ago
        This is splitting hairs. You can easily use (or make) a downstream distribution of Firefox where that is the case. No forking required, just ship a default config. This still would be a reasonable course of action even if your real concern is what is adequate for the wider community, not just for yourself. Threatening to switch to another browser isn't going to help because anything you switch to at this point is going to be a fork of Chrome or Firefox, probably with additional ads and tracking added from the other downstream vendor. Like it or not this is the funding model of the web. Edit: I haven't checked in a while but I believe there are actually already several privacy-focused forks of these browsers that ship with the default configs changed to remove ads and tracking, among other things.

vikingcaffiene 7y ago

Lost me there too. FF has had a few foibles but has course corrected quickly. It's my daily driver and certainly haven't seen anything like that happening.

raxxorrax 7y ago

The only negative thing that comes to mind is pocket. DoH is also controversial due to the implementation, but at least I understand the incentive they had. I just hope Firefox keeps being a real counterpart to Chrome and doesn't try to mirror it. Funding is a problem as Mozilla is far too dependant on Google, but I don't know a solution to that.

buzzkillington 7y ago
Fire everyone who directly responsible for development of the browser, pay managers $1 per year.