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I didn't know about this so I looked it up: > The plaintiffs in the lawsuit presented substantial evidence that implicated Walt Disney and Pixar Animation Stud

I didn't know about this so I looked it up: > The plaintiffs in the lawsuit presented substantial evidence that implicated Walt Disney and Pixar Animation Studios president Ed Catmull as a ringleader of the illegal wage-fixing scheme. The Walt Disney Company has done nothing to reprimand or punish Catmull for his questionable actions, and he continues to serve as the leader for both Disney and Pixar animation studios. https://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/animation-workers-set-to-receive-170-million-payout-from-wage-theft-lawsuit-161482.html https://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/animation-workers-... Pretty damning if true. Anyone got a better/additional source?

chadcmulligan 7y ago
Disney has a long history of exploiting their workers financially, conversely the workers have a long history of loving working for Disney. It's a strange symbiotic relationship.
- pixelpoet 7y ago
  Sounds a lot like Apple, that other Steve Jobs company.
- RodgerTheGreat 7y ago
  Working at one's "dream job" is an easy way to be taken advantage of, sadly.
  - chadcmulligan 7y ago
    indeed, I know one guy in particular that really stands out for me - he's working as an editor and hasn't been paid in years, they keep saying 'they're getting investors' then they'll pay him, his parents are giving him money. One of the many reasons I'm not in the vfx industry - how do you compete with people that are willing to work for free.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  It almost makes one question the definition of "exploitation." "Hey, your employer is extracting far more value from you than they're paying you for. You should be paid more." "Yes, but I don't really need to be." Is that "exploitation?"
  - ehnto 7y ago
    But where else would they get paid for their work? They can't leave to "The other blockbuster animation studio" because there is only a handful, and they've all agreed to fix wages at a certain rate so they don't get into a wage-war. If demand for their talent drove their wages, their wages would be much higher. Small studios don't make enough money to pay higher, so big studios hold all the cards and exploit that fact to draw down wages. It's the same issue airline pilots have. If they had the choice to move to a different airline paying higher, they would, but they accept the conditions they're given because the whole industry pays similar rates, and their skills aren't transferable to any other industry. Essentially they're trapped, lest they choose an entirely new career.
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      Right. The answer in the large is "They'd decide animation is a sucker's game and do something else entirely." Which they could do, and that's the natural back-pressure on wage-fixing cartels driving prices to zero (as opposed to the "unnatural" back-pressure of laws that say "companies aren't allowed to collude on fixing wages", which almost universally translates to "... in ways we can see," because every major industry with a few players and a non-union staff does it somehow. To be clear, I think those laws are wise, but they're a sub-optimal solution because they're very easily gamed and the ROI for gaming them is very, very high). There were not many Google engineers who felt actually slighted by Google when the company was fined for price-fixing along with Apple, Pixar, eBay, &c. At least, if they did feel slighted, they sure didn't demonstrate their frustration by unionizing, leaving, or actually taking more action than accepting their one-time payoff from the class-action settlement. And why would they? They're already paid far above average wages for employees countries Google operates in (and significantly above most of the tech sector in the US).
- lallysingh 7y ago
  It's called Stockholm Syndrome.
mprovost 7y ago
Doesn't mention Catmull specifically but here are the DOJ settlements: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-six-high-tech-companies-stop-entering-anticompetitive-employee https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-s... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-lucasfilm-stop-entering-anticompetitive-employee-solicitation https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-l...
mdre 7y ago
What's really funny is that this guy had the balls to publish a book named "Creativity inc." which talked about the "culture of candor", the egalitarian culture of Pixar... much of this talk was later challenged by numerous women who opened up about the sexism and misogyny they'd faced there. And of course the other guy that founded Pixar, John Lasseter, turned out to be a molester and so was laid off. Great company!
- toyg 7y ago
  The two things need not be exclusive: you can have a company that is egalitarian and candid in matters related to the actual creative work and definitely superior to other companies at the time, and still have issues at the interpersonal level. I can think a person is unlikeable and stay as away as possible from them, and then have a productive conversation with them in an open meeting that advances the company output. Even the Beatles didn't like each other that much, and I'm sure the production of Casablanca was plagued by "couches", but they still made masterpieces that were superior to anything seen before.
  - therealcamino 7y ago
    Well, they don't need to be exclusive as long as you're in the group that's not being excluded or treated badly. If you are, then you don't have the luxury of ignoring it and separating those issues so cleanly.
    - toyg 7y ago
      I agree, but those groups have always had that problem, and progress on that front is orthogonal to other issues.
- itronitron 7y ago
  I very much doubt that he wrote most of that book.
- vlunkr 7y ago
  Of all the people in Hollywood who we've found out are creeps, Lasseter is the most depressing. He seemed like such a wholesome guy.
slavik81 7y ago
Some previous discussions on this topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8023005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8023005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12257152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12257152
bleair 7y ago
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-11-19/apple-google-no-poaching-evidence-triggers-more-lawsuits https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-11-19/apple-goo... "“Like somehow we’re hurting some employees? We’re not,” Catmull said. “While I have responsibility for the payroll, I have responsibility for the long term also,” Catmull said. “I don’t apologize for this."

chadcmulligan 7y ago

Disney has a long history of exploiting their workers financially, conversely the workers have a long history of loving working for Disney. It's a strange symbiotic relationship.

pixelpoet 7y ago
Sounds a lot like Apple, that other Steve Jobs company.
RodgerTheGreat 7y ago
Working at one's "dream job" is an easy way to be taken advantage of, sadly.
- chadcmulligan 7y ago
  indeed, I know one guy in particular that really stands out for me - he's working as an editor and hasn't been paid in years, they keep saying 'they're getting investors' then they'll pay him, his parents are giving him money. One of the many reasons I'm not in the vfx industry - how do you compete with people that are willing to work for free.
shadowgovt 7y ago
It almost makes one question the definition of "exploitation." "Hey, your employer is extracting far more value from you than they're paying you for. You should be paid more." "Yes, but I don't really need to be." Is that "exploitation?"
- ehnto 7y ago
  But where else would they get paid for their work? They can't leave to "The other blockbuster animation studio" because there is only a handful, and they've all agreed to fix wages at a certain rate so they don't get into a wage-war. If demand for their talent drove their wages, their wages would be much higher. Small studios don't make enough money to pay higher, so big studios hold all the cards and exploit that fact to draw down wages. It's the same issue airline pilots have. If they had the choice to move to a different airline paying higher, they would, but they accept the conditions they're given because the whole industry pays similar rates, and their skills aren't transferable to any other industry. Essentially they're trapped, lest they choose an entirely new career.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Right. The answer in the large is "They'd decide animation is a sucker's game and do something else entirely." Which they could do, and that's the natural back-pressure on wage-fixing cartels driving prices to zero (as opposed to the "unnatural" back-pressure of laws that say "companies aren't allowed to collude on fixing wages", which almost universally translates to "... in ways we can see," because every major industry with a few players and a non-union staff does it somehow. To be clear, I think those laws are wise, but they're a sub-optimal solution because they're very easily gamed and the ROI for gaming them is very, very high). There were not many Google engineers who felt actually slighted by Google when the company was fined for price-fixing along with Apple, Pixar, eBay, &c. At least, if they did feel slighted, they sure didn't demonstrate their frustration by unionizing, leaving, or actually taking more action than accepting their one-time payoff from the class-action settlement. And why would they? They're already paid far above average wages for employees countries Google operates in (and significantly above most of the tech sector in the US).
lallysingh 7y ago
It's called Stockholm Syndrome.

mprovost 7y ago

Doesn't mention Catmull specifically but here are the DOJ settlements: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-six-high-tech-companies-stop-entering-anticompetitive-employee https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-s... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-lucasfilm-stop-entering-anticompetitive-employee-solicitation https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-l...

mdre 7y ago

What's really funny is that this guy had the balls to publish a book named "Creativity inc." which talked about the "culture of candor", the egalitarian culture of Pixar... much of this talk was later challenged by numerous women who opened up about the sexism and misogyny they'd faced there. And of course the other guy that founded Pixar, John Lasseter, turned out to be a molester and so was laid off. Great company!

toyg 7y ago
The two things need not be exclusive: you can have a company that is egalitarian and candid in matters related to the actual creative work and definitely superior to other companies at the time, and still have issues at the interpersonal level. I can think a person is unlikeable and stay as away as possible from them, and then have a productive conversation with them in an open meeting that advances the company output. Even the Beatles didn't like each other that much, and I'm sure the production of Casablanca was plagued by "couches", but they still made masterpieces that were superior to anything seen before.
- therealcamino 7y ago
  Well, they don't need to be exclusive as long as you're in the group that's not being excluded or treated badly. If you are, then you don't have the luxury of ignoring it and separating those issues so cleanly.
  - toyg 7y ago
    I agree, but those groups have always had that problem, and progress on that front is orthogonal to other issues.
itronitron 7y ago
I very much doubt that he wrote most of that book.
vlunkr 7y ago
Of all the people in Hollywood who we've found out are creeps, Lasseter is the most depressing. He seemed like such a wholesome guy.

slavik81 7y ago

Some previous discussions on this topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8023005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8023005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12257152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12257152

bleair 7y ago

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-11-19/apple-google-no-poaching-evidence-triggers-more-lawsuits https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-11-19/apple-goo... "“Like somehow we’re hurting some employees? We’re not,” Catmull said. “While I have responsibility for the payroll, I have responsibility for the long term also,” Catmull said. “I don’t apologize for this."