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You saw what happened in the EU. No borders but also no shared decision-making and responsibility. It quickly deteriorated to a situation worse than in the US,

by tomp 7y ago

You saw what happened in the EU. No borders but also no shared decision-making and responsibility. It quickly deteriorated to a situation worse than in the US, with each country doing its own thing (including closing most borders), and very little cooperation and helping each other. Trump might not be making the best decisions, but at least he's making decisions for the US! Noone is even trying to make decisions for Europe...

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
Indeed, every new crisis shows just how fragile the EU is. It's great that Europeans can travel from country to country, live and work in whichever member state they want, and can use the same currency, but the second there's a serious crisis, it's every member state for itself.
sgift 7y ago
> Noone is even trying to make decisions for Europe... Of course people are. The EU commission works on it, countries talk to each other. Is there a fully coordinated EU response yet? No. Is there cooperation? Yes.
- agustif 7y ago
  Well our female president Von Der Leyen snatched up a 80mill grant for cureVac in order to avoid Trump luring them to move and secure the covid-19 vaccine for US only. Trump 0 Europe 1
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    Ah, yes, she exists... I think she is just half bad and predictable but I don't think it is the best argument for the condition of the commission. This XY vs Trump shit isn't very convincing and I do believe that it is pretty though for people really caring about politics. The cureVac thing is suspicious as there are conflicting reports.
    - xienze 7y ago
      One such “conflicting report” is CureVac themselves[0]: > To make it clear again on coronavirus: CureVac has not received from the US government or related entities an offer before, during and since the Task Force meeting in the White House on March 2. CureVac rejects all allegations from press. Oh sure, the original articles have been updated, but still the myth remains. Funny how that works. 0: https://mobile.twitter.com/CureVacAG/status/1239535638359281664?s=20 https://mobile.twitter.com/CureVacAG/status/1239535638359281...
      - raxxorrax 7y ago
        Yes, that is what I was hinting at. Of course they could lie in the interest of a possible business relationship, but I see no evidence of this. I wonder how the rumor started.
        sgift 7y ago
        The majority owner of the company said it is the case and the German government said they are discussing counter measures. This tweet is damage control and tries to use a bit of weasel wording to make it look better: There never was a formal offer, so we can just ignore informal talks, right?
        raxxorrax 7y ago
        Maybe. Perhaps it is a PR-move to bring the company into the spotlight. Perhaps it was Trump wanting to be seen as capable. Perhaps we will never know.
- tomp 7y ago
  The EU commission was criticizing Trump for banning flights from EU, before banning them themselves a few days later. It's a circus.
polytely 7y ago
Well healthcare isn't organized on an European level but on a country level, so that's why the policy is directed on a country level but that doesn't mean there isn't any communication between countries. It's just that you mainly care about the countries you have a lot of (border)traffic with and not really about countries on the other side of the EU. I just watched the technical briefing to the Dutch parliament and the head of the RIVM (Dutch CDC equivalent) said that they are in close contact with for example the Italian hospitals to see what works and what doesn't. I would like the EU to take more control over manufacturing protection gear and ventilators, and distribute them as needed over the EU.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
EU isn't a federal government. It has very little practical ability to boss member countries around, and this is by design/democratic will of the member states (insofar you believe that this many levels of indirection still add up to a democracy). If we wanted to turn EU into a federation, we would've done it. As it is now, member states cling to their sovereignty (IMO quite unfortunately).

by tomp 7y ago

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

Indeed, every new crisis shows just how fragile the EU is. It's great that Europeans can travel from country to country, live and work in whichever member state they want, and can use the same currency, but the second there's a serious crisis, it's every member state for itself.

sgift 7y ago

> Noone is even trying to make decisions for Europe... Of course people are. The EU commission works on it, countries talk to each other. Is there a fully coordinated EU response yet? No. Is there cooperation? Yes.

agustif 7y ago
Well our female president Von Der Leyen snatched up a 80mill grant for cureVac in order to avoid Trump luring them to move and secure the covid-19 vaccine for US only. Trump 0 Europe 1
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  Ah, yes, she exists... I think she is just half bad and predictable but I don't think it is the best argument for the condition of the commission. This XY vs Trump shit isn't very convincing and I do believe that it is pretty though for people really caring about politics. The cureVac thing is suspicious as there are conflicting reports.
  - xienze 7y ago
    One such “conflicting report” is CureVac themselves[0]: > To make it clear again on coronavirus: CureVac has not received from the US government or related entities an offer before, during and since the Task Force meeting in the White House on March 2. CureVac rejects all allegations from press. Oh sure, the original articles have been updated, but still the myth remains. Funny how that works. 0: https://mobile.twitter.com/CureVacAG/status/1239535638359281664?s=20 https://mobile.twitter.com/CureVacAG/status/1239535638359281...
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      Yes, that is what I was hinting at. Of course they could lie in the interest of a possible business relationship, but I see no evidence of this. I wonder how the rumor started.
      - sgift 7y ago
        The majority owner of the company said it is the case and the German government said they are discussing counter measures. This tweet is damage control and tries to use a bit of weasel wording to make it look better: There never was a formal offer, so we can just ignore informal talks, right?
        raxxorrax 7y ago
        Maybe. Perhaps it is a PR-move to bring the company into the spotlight. Perhaps it was Trump wanting to be seen as capable. Perhaps we will never know.
tomp 7y ago
The EU commission was criticizing Trump for banning flights from EU, before banning them themselves a few days later. It's a circus.

polytely 7y ago

Well healthcare isn't organized on an European level but on a country level, so that's why the policy is directed on a country level but that doesn't mean there isn't any communication between countries. It's just that you mainly care about the countries you have a lot of (border)traffic with and not really about countries on the other side of the EU. I just watched the technical briefing to the Dutch parliament and the head of the RIVM (Dutch CDC equivalent) said that they are in close contact with for example the Italian hospitals to see what works and what doesn't. I would like the EU to take more control over manufacturing protection gear and ventilators, and distribute them as needed over the EU.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

EU isn't a federal government. It has very little practical ability to boss member countries around, and this is by design/democratic will of the member states (insofar you believe that this many levels of indirection still add up to a democracy). If we wanted to turn EU into a federation, we would've done it. As it is now, member states cling to their sovereignty (IMO quite unfortunately).