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The Coronavirus crisis is a perfect opportunity for governments to take totalitarian leaps forward. Look what happened this week in Israel. At 1:00AM when citi

The Coronavirus crisis is a perfect opportunity for governments to take totalitarian leaps forward. Look what happened this week in Israel. At 1:00AM when citizens were sleeping: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/03/14/coronavirus-spy-apps-israel-joins-iran-and-china-tracking-citizens-smartphones-to-fight-covid-19/#6a50639781bb https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/03/14/coronavir... Edit: I would also want to point out the prime minister trial supposed to begin today(!) and was delayed to May because the courts were closed as "non crucial" service. He has been indicted for bribe, fraud and breach of trust.

fierarul 7y ago
Wasn't there some news days ago about a cyclist being on the suspect list of a burglary because he was cycling on the street next to a house and the app he was using was taking location data from Google? US government could just order Google / Apple push an update to their OSes thereby making location data always on then gather the data and do contact tracing. A lot of people would actually self-subscribe to a Google Contact Tracing app if they are instantly notified about crossing paths with an infected person.
- artificial 7y ago
  They wouldn't even need to go that far. As long as the phone is talking to the tower its position is known. Perhaps a rise in mesh networks with non cellular devices will be a thing?
  - kortilla 7y ago
    Not a very good position though (can be hundreds of feet off), so it depends on what you want to do with that data.
    - Retric 7y ago
      For a single data point it’s not that accurate but over time things change. How many people are within 500 feet of you for 4+ hours a day. In that mindset, building a model to track say every person on a tour bus seems rather straightforward. Even locating people likely to be having an affair seems doable if you have some basic biographic info on the general population.
scotty79 7y ago
This is perfect opportunity for citizens to observe totalitarian capabilities of governments and on next election decide which ones are excessive.
- futurix 7y ago
  Provided that next election is still happening.
  - anoplus 7y ago
    From a dictator point of view, elections are still useful to provide citizens with false sense of democracy
- guerrilla 7y ago
  Some totalitarian capabilities of government are not excessive? No, this is wrong.
  - scotty79 7y ago
    Ability to quarantine seems totalitarian but does not seem excessive.
    - guerrilla 7y ago
      You're confusing totalitarian and authoritarian. > Totalitarianism is a political system or a form of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. It is regarded as the most extreme and complete form of authoritarianism.
      - scotty79 7y ago
        I guess, but I think I'm not the only one. I think most people who scream 'totalitarian!' do the same.
avip 7y ago
I live in Israel, definitely do not support our PM, and believe this is a crucial measure that will save many lives. The approval is temporary and conditioned. Israelis are being mind-blowingly disobedient to instructions. Usually it's funny or mildly annoying. This time - deadly. I embrace this temporary dent in our fragile democracy with no hesitation.
- ethbro 7y ago
  > Israelis are being mind-blowingly disobedient to instructions. To put it delicately, encouraging citizen to homestead on land of questionable ownership... probably isn't the best way to encourage a culture of law abidance.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > I embrace this temporary dent in our fragile democracy with no hesitation. Unfortunately, it's temporary exemptions like these that allow the government to chip away at democracy.
- einpoklum 7y ago
  The approval is not "temoprary and conditioned". This was enacted using legislation from the time of the British colonial occupation of Palestine, which goes against every constitutional principle and assumes basic hostility between the government and the subject populace. The Israeli parliament actually decides, every year, that Israel is in "a state of emergency" (never ending, of course) to prevent some of these powers from expiring. This has been happening mainly for suppressing the Palestinian population and limiting the freedom of the press. It's true that over time, a lot of this has been scaled back (e.g. you no longer need a permit to issue a newspaper). But instead, Israel has adopted new draconian anti-privacy legislation, like the "Big Brother law" of 2008 IIRC, which allows the executive branch to access phone and cellular geo-location records without a search warrant, etc. Also, some of the measures now in place were introduced despite the relevant parliamentary committee for overseeing these matters _rejecting_ fast-track approval, demanding additional information. The government just went ahead and ignored them. It's also convenient that the government is preventing parliament from properly convening (no more than 10 people at a time), and most court sessions from occurring.
yyyk 7y ago
A) The step was talked about at the 8PM press conference and is necessary according to all expert opinion. B) The closing order never included the Supreme court nor the PM's trial. Even the order's date did not apply. The trial was delayed because the judges didn't feel like dying because the opposition required a talking point. C) The opposition's behaviour has been disgraceful - undermining necessary steps because of the intense political competition, e.g. the argument that the government can't tell people to stay in their homes. Their election slogan was "Israel over anything". Apparently it's really "getting power over anything". The electorate will have a word with them in the 4th round - unless Gantz, who has been responsible, will prove himself to be a leader and manage to rein in his irresponsible comrades.

fierarul 7y ago

Wasn't there some news days ago about a cyclist being on the suspect list of a burglary because he was cycling on the street next to a house and the app he was using was taking location data from Google? US government could just order Google / Apple push an update to their OSes thereby making location data always on then gather the data and do contact tracing. A lot of people would actually self-subscribe to a Google Contact Tracing app if they are instantly notified about crossing paths with an infected person.

artificial 7y ago
They wouldn't even need to go that far. As long as the phone is talking to the tower its position is known. Perhaps a rise in mesh networks with non cellular devices will be a thing?
- kortilla 7y ago
  Not a very good position though (can be hundreds of feet off), so it depends on what you want to do with that data.
  - Retric 7y ago
    For a single data point it’s not that accurate but over time things change. How many people are within 500 feet of you for 4+ hours a day. In that mindset, building a model to track say every person on a tour bus seems rather straightforward. Even locating people likely to be having an affair seems doable if you have some basic biographic info on the general population.

scotty79 7y ago

This is perfect opportunity for citizens to observe totalitarian capabilities of governments and on next election decide which ones are excessive.

futurix 7y ago
Provided that next election is still happening.
- anoplus 7y ago
  From a dictator point of view, elections are still useful to provide citizens with false sense of democracy
guerrilla 7y ago
Some totalitarian capabilities of government are not excessive? No, this is wrong.
- scotty79 7y ago
  Ability to quarantine seems totalitarian but does not seem excessive.
  - guerrilla 7y ago
    You're confusing totalitarian and authoritarian. > Totalitarianism is a political system or a form of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. It is regarded as the most extreme and complete form of authoritarianism.
    - scotty79 7y ago
      I guess, but I think I'm not the only one. I think most people who scream 'totalitarian!' do the same.

avip 7y ago

I live in Israel, definitely do not support our PM, and believe this is a crucial measure that will save many lives. The approval is temporary and conditioned. Israelis are being mind-blowingly disobedient to instructions. Usually it's funny or mildly annoying. This time - deadly. I embrace this temporary dent in our fragile democracy with no hesitation.

ethbro 7y ago
> Israelis are being mind-blowingly disobedient to instructions. To put it delicately, encouraging citizen to homestead on land of questionable ownership... probably isn't the best way to encourage a culture of law abidance.
saagarjha 7y ago
> I embrace this temporary dent in our fragile democracy with no hesitation. Unfortunately, it's temporary exemptions like these that allow the government to chip away at democracy.
einpoklum 7y ago
The approval is not "temoprary and conditioned". This was enacted using legislation from the time of the British colonial occupation of Palestine, which goes against every constitutional principle and assumes basic hostility between the government and the subject populace. The Israeli parliament actually decides, every year, that Israel is in "a state of emergency" (never ending, of course) to prevent some of these powers from expiring. This has been happening mainly for suppressing the Palestinian population and limiting the freedom of the press. It's true that over time, a lot of this has been scaled back (e.g. you no longer need a permit to issue a newspaper). But instead, Israel has adopted new draconian anti-privacy legislation, like the "Big Brother law" of 2008 IIRC, which allows the executive branch to access phone and cellular geo-location records without a search warrant, etc. Also, some of the measures now in place were introduced despite the relevant parliamentary committee for overseeing these matters _rejecting_ fast-track approval, demanding additional information. The government just went ahead and ignored them. It's also convenient that the government is preventing parliament from properly convening (no more than 10 people at a time), and most court sessions from occurring.

yyyk 7y ago

A) The step was talked about at the 8PM press conference and is necessary according to all expert opinion. B) The closing order never included the Supreme court nor the PM's trial. Even the order's date did not apply. The trial was delayed because the judges didn't feel like dying because the opposition required a talking point. C) The opposition's behaviour has been disgraceful - undermining necessary steps because of the intense political competition, e.g. the argument that the government can't tell people to stay in their homes. Their election slogan was "Israel over anything". Apparently it's really "getting power over anything". The electorate will have a word with them in the 4th round - unless Gantz, who has been responsible, will prove himself to be a leader and manage to rein in his irresponsible comrades.