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Tesla appears to defy Bay Area shutdown, plans to operate Fremont factory
- devy 7y agoUnless Fremont factory is 100% automated with robots, this sounds reckless. However, the Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai has been reopened and working in full speed (except when it's bottlenecked by upstream suppliers)
- ____a 7y ago"Alameda declares Telsa an 'essential business,' factory allowed to operate under cornavirus orders" https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Alameda-declared-Telsa-an-essential-business-is-15137716.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Alameda-declared-Telsa-a...
- bdcravens 7y agoHow is an electric car factory an essential business? I hope someone follows the money and prosecutes Elon if he exercised any financial influence here.
- gambler 7y ago>How is an electric car factory an essential business? Because it's not like a restaurant that you can close and then open a month later with little consequence to the public. If you stop production of components or cars, you will not have them later on to restart the economy. Most of the world uses lean manufacturing. Closing down some factories will mean that entire production chains will shut down. All the companies that service those chains will shut down. And when the virus passes, you will have no cars, no components for cars, and no easy way to restart manufacturing. Even without shutdowns the entire system will take a huge hit dues to changes in demand. (Which will drop to nothing for some thing and skyrocket for others.)
- lexs 7y agoVW is doing it [0] [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-results-2019/volkswagen-starts-shutting-down-production-in-europe-in-face-of-coronavirus-idUSKBN2140OF https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-results-2019/v...
- stickfigure 7y agoVW is a much bigger company which can afford the slack. Tesla is a small upstart that's never turned a profit. From cold calculus it might be worth risking a few more lives to keep the concern going.
- dekhn 7y agothats not an argument for calling tesla an essential service.
- new_realist 7y agoTesla is a $100B, 17 year old company.
- bdcravens 7y agoIt was. The recent damage to the price puts it closer to $80B today.
- jsight 7y agoI'm not sure of your point here? Presumably Tesla's capital position is still significantly smaller than VW? I do not know this, though, as I am not as familiar with VW's capital structure. TBH, I'm more worried about what will happen with Ford or GM if they have even a short outage. GM has massive ongoing obligations and a relatively weak balance sheet, afaik.
- bdcravens 7y agoStrictly in terms of market cap (not the best metric, admittedly) Tesla is larger than VW. (both company's stocks have been devastated recently though)
- arawde 7y agoIt probably employs a non-negligible amount of people in the area
- newen 7y ago> if he exercised any financial influence here Pretty much a certainty given politics in the US.
- dang 7y agoPlease don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments here.
- labcomputer 7y agoWithout commenting on whether it is sound, the logic seems to be that transportation (particularly private transportation) is essential. Thus, auto repair and supply businesses have been exempted as "essential businesses" (they are specifically called out in all 6 Bay Area county orders). Taking this one step further, auto repair businesses can't very well repair cars if there are no parts available, and those parts come from Fremont. Therefore, the Tesla factory would (at least in part) theoretically already qualify for an exemption under the existing order. One could also make the argument that (given that private transportation has been deemed an "essential" service) replacing worn out or destroyed cars is essential, and thus manufacturing finished cars qualifies for an exemption.
- mech1234 7y agoYour argument can be extended infinitely. It's pretty easy to understand that Tesla (and any other assembly plants that fit in this window) is simply getting special treatment here. The factory that makes hydraulic fluid for Tesla's presses that stamp out car parts is also part of the transportation supply chain, As is the oil refinery that supplies feedstock to the hydraulic oil vendor.
- behringer 7y agoAre you sure they haven't been exempted already?
- wayoutthere 7y agoYou're absolutely right; our economy is far too interconnected to isolate specific industries. Right now it's a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" situation where the companies that are able to sustain operations (legally or illegally) will reap huge rewards when everything starts to go back to some version of normal. I honestly think the thing we will learn from this pandemic is that we can't stop a modern economy like this for a couple months without also incurring significant loss of life. If this shutdown extends more than a month we're going to see supplies start to run low and people will panic. Grocery stores around me (large northeastern city) are already having trouble restocking.
- throwGuardian 7y agoYes, the only possible explanation here is corruption of the local Democrat government, that openly hates Elon/Theil. Also, since Elon, Theil et al. don't kowtow the leftist political line, they're demonstrably lacking ethics, presumed to favor profit over pandemic, unless proven otherwise. Guilty until proven innocent FTW
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- manicdee 7y agoThe short version is: it’s not an inessential business and it poses little risk. So balancing the economic impact of shutting it down versus the economic impact of workers on social isolation orders possibly getting sick, the better option for everyone is to keep as close to BAU as possible. Shutting cities down is not going to make coronavirus go away — it is a last ditch effort of a failed nation that let its health infrastructure rot. Everywhere else we are taking sensible personal precautions, and retraining people for the six month fight ahead: social distancing, self-isolation, far more attention to hygiene. We can do that because our health care systems and pandemic response capabilities weren’t vandalised by vested interests.
- heisenbit 7y agoMercedes and VW are shutting factories down on Friday, currently ramping down.
- anthm1988 7y agoRidiculous. We do not need to be manufacturing luxury cars right now. Elon is murdering people for his own ego.
- rolltiide 7y ago404 corroborated here https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tesla-factory/teslas-u-s-factory-to-stay-open-as-coronavirus-lockdown-begins-report-idUSKBN2140Q8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tesla-...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- thrill 7y agoAlready under discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606140
- predictmktegirl 7y agoPart of me wants to say, "oh we've overreacted a bit, we should keep working while observing safety precautions like distancing and hygiene." The other part of me is doomsayer permabear saying that even giving humans the chance to mess something up will result in catastrophic failure. At the end of the day, I certainly wouldn't want to be the one responsible for killing someone's mother or father.
- thordenmark 7y agoMarin county resident here. The details of the lockdown permit essential businesses and services. Automobile repair, parts, and services fall under that category.
- rolltiide 7y agoAlameda granted Tesla an exemption
- jandrese 7y agoWhich smells a bit of "they're essential because they're employing a significant portion of the population".
- xkjkls 7y agoWell how many hours are they even working? Who the hell is buying $50,000 cars right now?
- GoOnThenDoTell 7y agoMaybe not this month, but things will go back to normal and people will want their $50000 cars
- xkjkls 7y agoThings will not be normal for a long time. This is going to be a severe global recession and thats going to depress auto sales a lot. Also, oil is $24 a barrel, which makes electric cars at even more a disadvantage.
- jandrese 7y agoAren't they still chewing through their backlog?
- sershe 7y agoAnd that's all the motivation you need. I wish everyone would follow their lead and the defy the quarantine theater - yes, I know the virus is terrible, but we haven't even quite started with the cure and it already looks like it's worse.
- KKKKkkkk1 7y agoThis is consistent with Tesla's safety record both for its own employees [0] and for its customers [1]. Government is all too happy to allow Elon to keep testing the boundaries. [0] https://www.revealnews.org/article/inside-teslas-factory-a-medical-clinic-designed-to-ignore-injured-workers/ https://www.revealnews.org/article/inside-teslas-factory-a-m... [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31093282/ntsb-autopilot-tesla-crash-ruling/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31093282/ntsb-autopilot-t...
- wideasleep1 7y agoInteresting that they post an update/correction late in the article, but retain the misleading title, which was a weasel word anyway. Classy.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- njarboe 7y agoHere is the actual shutdown order for Alameda county where the Tesla factory is located[1]. [1]http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-in-place-20200316.pdf http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-i...
- kyuudou 7y agoWho's the sheriff? Up to them, ultimately.
- mkolodny 7y agoPersonally, I think this is incredibly irresponsible. Elon told his workers to stay home even if they feel "slightest bit ill or even uncomfortable" [0]. Yet, according to the CDC, symptoms may not appear until 2-14 days after exposure [1]. So Tesla employees may be spreading the virus to each other, and the rest of the world, without knowing it. In the Alameda order which describes what "essential businesses" may remain open, the closest loophole I can see that might allow the Tesla factory to stay open is for "Airlines, taxis, and other private transportation providers providing transportation services necessary for Essential Activities and other purposes expressly authorized in this Order" [2]. I think it's more than a stretch to say that building new cars counts as transportation services. Repairing existing Teslas, sure. But I don't think Tesla should be allowed to keep building new cars. And I think if Elon cares about his workers' safety, and the safety of the world, he would ask his employees who are building new cars to stay home. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tesla-factory/teslas-u-s-factory-to-stay-open-as-coronavirus-lockdown-begins-report-idUSKBN2140Q8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tesla-... [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/s... [2] http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-in-place-20200316.pdf http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-i...
- eganist 7y agoJudging from the full body of his email (which I'm guessing plenty of people read before it even reached the news judging from how many of my friends sent it to me), it seems like he really doesn't care about his staff. Choice quote: > I will personally be at work, but that's just me. Totally okay if you want to stay at home for any reason. If this isn't the most peer-pressure-y way to tell people to show up, I don't know what is. The head of the company choosing to keep showing up to the office in the middle of an outbreak is the exact opposite of the precedent he should be setting right now. Shoot, he can even tell people he's going to work from home and still secretly come to the office; people would understand. It's his company. Or he could've just not mentioned his plans at all. But by mentioning his plans, his direct reports will still show up, their direct reports will largely still show up, and anyone who doesn't want demerits on their performance reviews will all still show up. No different from an unlimited leave policy where people take no leave. This is absolutely wrong. And hopefully illegal. And I definitely did cancel my Tesla order (RN112815329) because of it.
- stevespang 7y agoELON THE SLAVE DRIVER !!!!!!!!
- lmeyerov 7y agoYuck, leadership at its worst. It's tough to shut down factories - restarts are sensitive - so it makes sense to allow a skeleton crew. That's not what's happening. This looks like obvious local corruption in the face of a public health crisis. Not thrilled to be "shelter at home-d" next to these pricks with a wife who works at an area hospital and someone elderly at home: this is quite the FU to the community that keeps bailing this government-funded company out. I've been keeping a tally of companies and leaders who force people to come to the office or use this as a marketing opportunity (vs data4good), and Tesla is now on the shortlist for evil.
- panarky 7y ago> government-funded company Has Tesla received taxpayer subsidies for anything in the last year or two other than customer incentives to buy zero emission vehicles?
- toomuchtodo 7y agoNo. Also, they paid back their government loan 10 years early, with interest. Compare this to GM (TARP bailout and BK proceedings) and Ford, who we lost $10 billion on as taxpayers. Tesla has a lot to complain about, but they’re not the failure the rest of the US auto industry is. Ford may not make it through this.
- bumby 7y agoFord was not bailed out. I think you’re thinking of Chrysler
- toomuchtodo 7y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22542185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22542185 https://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/financial-stability/TARP-Programs/automotive-programs/pages/default.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/financial-stability/TAR... https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2016/09/21/trump-should-be-asking-will-ford-pay-off-its-government-loan-before-moving-small-cars-to-mexico/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2016/09/21/trump-sh... > Ford likes to say it “didn’t take the money” because unlike General Motors and Chrysler, it didn’t require a taxpayer bailout to survive the 2008-2009 credit crisis. But don’t forget: Ford tapped into a different pool of government money set aside for the auto industry during those desperate times. (And those low-cost funds were critical to Ford’s survival because no other funding sources were available.) > Hoping to create “thousands of green jobs” in the U.S. and reduce the nation’s dependence on foreign oil, the DOE under the Bush Administration established the $25 billion loan program in 2007 to encourage development of advanced technology vehicles that would burn less fuel and, importantly, be manufactured in the U.S. Congress funded the program in 2009, after President Obama took office. > Ford applied for and received $5.9 billion in June 2009 (the same month GM filed for bankruptcy) to help pay for investments in more fuel-efficient engines, hybrids and electric cars and also to convert two truck plants to production of cars. Ford is cancelling all their cars except trucks and the Mustang. They took a bailout that wasn’t a bailout in name only.
- aatharuv 7y agoThe new apartment complex near the (old) Fremont BART station still had people actively working at it this morning. It doesn't seem to be on the essential list from what I saw from the official Alameda County order.
- tzs 7y agoThat sounds like it would be covered under item 10d: > For purposes of this Order, individuals may leave their residence to provide any services or perform any work necessary to the operations and maintenance of “Essential Infrastructure,” including,but not limited to, public works construction, construction of housing (in particular affordable housing or housing for individuals experiencing homelessness), airport operations, water, sewer, gas, electrical, oil refining, roads and highways, public transportation, solid waste collection and removal, internet, and telecommunications systems(including the provision of essential global, national, and local infrastructure for computing services, business infrastructure, communications, and web-based services), provided that they carry out those services or that work in compliance with Social Distancing Requirements as defined this Section, to the extent possible. Source: http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-in-place-20200316.pdf http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-i...
- zyang 7y agoIs anyone surprised? Elon is notorious for burning through people to achieve his vision.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- DeonPenny 7y agoSend home all the elderly people and anyone with a preexisting condition. Most people will get sick anyone. Vaccines take a least a year to make. Elon is openly saying people are overreacting
- mandeepj 7y agoCouple of trials are already underway for Covid-19. So, it may not take a year
- xkjkls 7y agoStage 1. That's the easiest stage to get approval for, and many of these trials might not go into Stage 2 or Stage 3. Drug trials take a long time to figure out all of the possible side effects.
- koheripbal 7y agoIt takes a year to test for safety. Impossible to go faster.
- DeonPenny 7y agoNah its a year minimum like going breakneck. No vaccine has been developed fast and definitely won't for something so none lethal to normal people
- closeparen 7y agoThe models say this would still overwhelm the healthcare system. Population wide quarantine is the only way to keep this thing inside ICU capacity limits. That's why we're doing it.
- zomglings 7y agoThe asymmetry of outcomes here is sickening. If things work out for Tesla and they don't have a Covid-19 outbreak among their employees, a small number of people stand to benefit greatly (Elon Musk especially). If things go south for Tesla, not only do Tesla employees have to deal with the fallout, but also their families and their communities.
- heartbeats 7y agoIt sounds like he's being a shrewd businessman who has discovered cheap convexity. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
- zomglings 7y agoWe may have it in our power to change the game around - vilify Musk and show him that this convexity is just a mirage. Not sure if that will work.
- Funes- 7y agoI find that while Musk appears to be more than competent on a number of things, his opinions and stances on many subjects are, to me, downright dumb.
- threeseed 7y agoNot dumb. Selfish. So much of what he does can be seen as driven by pure self interest despite his altruistic, saver of humanity persona. He is personally set to receive tens of billions in compensation if Tesla hits its targets. Which no matter who the person is has a significant influencing effect.
- dandelany 7y agoThis. I used to be a big fan, but this fact has become transparently obvious in the past few years and makes it really hard to like the guy. Now I'm just waiting for his big announcement that he's putting together a crack team to develop a COVID-19 cure/vaccine, at which he'll throw a few million dollars and achieve nothing other than to stoke his ego and reputation. I hope I'm wrong.
- odshoifsdhfs 7y agoAnd then call someone a pedo when experts they point out his ideas won't work.
- sershe 7y agoIf I'm playing chess with a guy who is known for making good decisions in (i.e. winning) many chess games, and he makes a move that looks dumb, the prudent conclusion is not that the move is dumb, is that I'm dumb and I need to figure out what the motivation was.
- exclusiv 7y agoThis is way more nuanced than chess though. You can be smart for shareholders and still be dumb. The further he goes into the robotic visionary the more unlikable he, and Tesla, becomes. That can wreck a company that is so reliant upon a loyal following that bought the cool factor and brand. It can easily vaporize. And we have a major event that is not good for Tesla's demographics. A lot of people had no business buying Tesla's during more confident times. Competition has increased. Cool factor dwindling with so many on the road. These pressures will test them without the right leadership. Cheap money will certainly help though.
- bitxbit 7y agoI used to support Tesla but can’t help but think recent successes (including the astronomical rise in stock price) got to Elon Musk. I hate to say it but they’re 2-3 quarters away from possibly filing if the virus continues at current pace in US and EU.
- scurvy 7y agoI'm not excusing Musk's decsion, but I will say that lots of places are ignoring the shelter in place request. Residential construction workers are still putting up drywall, laying tiles, etc. Parts of the city have the usual number of people on the street you'd expect on a weekday. Tourists are walking around. High end coffee shops are still selling $6 lattes. I went to the doctor and the pharmacist and was surprised at the amount of people milling about. Definitely no 6 feet of social distancing either. While the public works construction crews are exempt from this, maybe they can fix Van Ness while everyone's cooped up?
- cjhopman 7y ago> I'm not excusing Musk's decsion, lots of places are ignoring the shelter in place request Wow, really? Let's take a look at your examples. > Residential construction workers are still putting up drywall, laying tiles, etc. Residential construction is exempted. > High end coffee shops are still selling $6 lattes. coffee shops are exempted for take-out and delivery. > the doctor and the pharmacist and was surprised at the amount of people milling about Doctor's offices and pharmacists are exempted.
- scurvy 7y ago> coffee shops are exempted for take-out and delivery. > Residential construction is exempted. That's some very essential services there. My point is that the number of exclusions make this policy a joke. It's not a serious effort. It's half-arsed at best. It's not going to work. > Doctor's offices and pharmacists are exempted. I know, that's why I went.
- xkjkls 7y agohttps://twitter.com/ACSOSheriffs/status/1240062681635123201 https://twitter.com/ACSOSheriffs/status/1240062681635123201 Apparently under county order they cannot make any new vehicles, only replacement parts.
- ginsing 7y agoAnd what exactly the problem with that? We have a biggest hysteria of the latest 10 years. Thanks for the social media and news. And now our economy is basically on free fall, thanks for that. I would like at the end of hysteria to make some analysis: How many millions of dollars we just spend on each death case.
- kgc 7y agoI believe the factory workers are hourly. He should just shut it down for two weeks. Not a huge cost.
- insiderinsider 7y agoEven Apple Employees are attending work
- drenginian 7y agoBecause money.