6 ms·

Not to trivialize the numbers, but people still have to eat, so these dollars are largely being re-allocated elsewhere, primarily to takeout, food delivery, and

Not to trivialize the numbers, but people still have to eat, so these dollars are largely being re-allocated elsewhere, primarily to takeout, food delivery, and grocery stores. Other sectors that are service-based represent real net loss in GDP.

creato 7y ago
Even delivered groceries are significantly cheaper than eating out. That difference is mostly the income of restaurant workers.
- sk5t 7y ago
  Yep. Food cost is usually about 1/3 of the bill; 1/3 to rent and overhead, 1/3 to staff. If a few percent can be squeezed from any of those areas, there's the restaurant's profit.
- smallgovt 7y ago
  If there's a silver lining, it's that takeout is higher margin for restaurants and I'm sure takeout revenue is spiking during city shutdowns.
  - selectodude 7y ago
    No it’s not. The margin on one beer is more than two entrees put together.
    - whatshisface 7y ago
      But a takeout beer would be higher margin than a sit-in beer.
      - zackbloom 7y ago
        How many people order takeout beer at restaurants? Depending on the city it's often not even legal.
      - wincy 7y ago
        Who would order a takeout beer? If I was going to get takeout and wanted a beer I’d stop at a liquor store or gas station on my way home.
        pc86 7y ago
        In Pennsylvania at least liquor stores are state run and closed at the moment. You can get beer or wine at some gas stations but that's about it. Anything less popular than huge international brands or very, very popular micro-brews you typically have to go to a beer distributor for and most of those are closed, too (the only ones open are those defying the Governor's strong recommendation to close). Basically if you want anything less popular than Sam Adams-level of popularity, you have to get it from a restaurant.
        LgWoodenBadger 7y ago
        You can get to-go beer (6-packs, growlers, etc.) at any restaurant with a liquor license (provided they sell it that way). You can also get beer AND wine from a large number of grocery stores (Giant, Wegmans, etc.). Only liquor is sold by the state-run stores. There are also all the local micro-breweries...
        quickthrowman 7y ago
        It’s crazy that PA shut down the liquor stores, hopefully there’s enough beer and wine left for the truly bad alcoholics that will seize and die without it, seems like a very foolish decision to me, to add the potential strain of alcoholics in withdrawal to the medical system.
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        A lot of people are just gonna hit the liquor store on their way.
      - hodgesrm 7y ago
        That's probably only possible in places like New Orleans. I was surprised to learn about the notion of the "to-go cup" a few years back. It has significant explanatory power in some parts of the city.
        _delirium 7y ago
        It's not legal in most places, but being temporarily legalized in some. Washington, DC is passing a bill this afternoon [1] allowing takeout places to deliver beer/wine if ordered with at least one food item. I'm guessing other cities will pass something similar. [1] edit: See section 203 photographed here: https://twitter.com/mitchryals/status/1239938801839099905 https://twitter.com/mitchryals/status/1239938801839099905
        sambroner 7y ago
        I couldn't find this by googling. Can you post a link?
        v64 7y ago
        It's part of the COVID-19 Emergency Amendment Act of 2020 [1] that was passed today. [1] http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=653228&f=109&s=27705&m=907416&t=e9e88f3478ef96a84e6da9a6a941197473e9c0f17a04da6fc6e40bf22670a9a5 http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=653228&f=109&s=277...
        akavi 7y ago
        To-go cups are legal in NYC as of Tuesday, so long as they're sold with food[0]. [0] https://ny.eater.com/2020/3/17/21182052/new-york-state-liquor-authority-restaurant-laws-coronavirus https://ny.eater.com/2020/3/17/21182052/new-york-state-liquo...
  - enjo 7y ago
    In today’s world Uber eats, Grubhub, etc take 30% of the gross on an order. No way it’s more profitable than having people in house buying alcohol.
    - karatestomp 7y ago
      The one time I bought on Grubhub I had trouble getting the price to something reasonable even with the coupon I had (only reason I was trying it) because all the menu prices were way higher than at the actual restaurants. Even with (IIRC) the delivery fee waived and a significant % off (I wanna say 20 or 30?) it was about the same as going in. Does Grubhub do the menu-price adjusting part, or do the restaurants? Unlike your average delivery joint the numbers kept getting worse the more you added, too—no "two large two-topping pizzas and breadsticks at 70% menu price" deals or anything like that.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        All of the delivery apps have much higher prices than what you can get at the place yourself. I suggest take-out or drive-thru if you're able.
        karatestomp 7y ago
        The pricing was a big turn-off for me. The way it added more to the delivery cost per-item rather than being some kind of flat delivery fee, which didn't make much sense, and how it seemed like they were trying to hide the cost of delivery.
      - frgotmylogin 7y ago
        I noticed the same thing a while back with DoorDash when trying to order some Cracker Barrel breakfast. It was something like a 30-40% hike across the board. I emailed DoorDash to ask what was going on with the prices and got a super misleading response along the lines of "our partner restaurants set their own prices" [1]- basically deflecting the blame back at the restaurant. So I emailed Cracker Barrel, and they are not (or were not at the time) partnered with any delivery service. [1] actual text from email: "As stated in our Terms and Conditions, the prices for menu items on DoorDash may differ from the prices on the restaurant's own menu. For example, our restaurant partners are responsible for setting the price of their menu items on DoorDash, and some restaurant partners choose to set different prices than they offer for in-store diners."
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Sounds like you’ve never been to Albertsons. That’s why we usually drive to TJs, a few items are approx 40% cheaper.
- cyphar 7y ago
  On the other hand, restaurants are operating on economies of scale (and they get wholesale prices for their raw materials -- their groceries are much cheaper per-portion than yours). Don't get me wrong, cooking at home can be cheaper than eating out -- but only if you're cooking large batches of food or are buying ingredients that can be used for more than one meal. You'd be surprised how cheap individual portions of food are for restaurants.
  - chii 7y ago
    > Don't get me wrong, cooking at home can be cheaper than eating out cost of raw materials in restaurants are a very small portion of the overall bill the customer pays. A large portion is rent, and an even larger portion is labour/wages. I hear the margins are razor thin at around 5-10% (which is low considering the risks). Not to mention capital expenditure (of which the value, i guess, isn't gonna disappear overnight, so there's that). Cooking at home also tends to be food that you get in season and/or on discount. You don't have a menu at home, and hence, costs at home are both lower in raw materials, and labour costs are zero (assuming you don't pay yourself, and your time isn't able to be spent productively anyway so zero opportunity cost).
    - cyphar 7y ago
      Yes, that's all true but I don't quite see what you're disagreeing with. I agree that it definitely is cheaper for restaurants to cook large numbers of the same meal, and they have many other expenditures which raise the price of your meal. But for a single meal, the question is whether you can cook it for less than the price at an equivalent restaurant. In many cases, this isn't the case unless you're cooking in large quantities and eating the same meal for several sittings. Yes, using seasonal ingredients is a good idea -- but a lot of restaurants also do that, and their groceries are still much cheaper than yours anyway. For example (in Australia), if you want to make just one portion of Thai curry you need at least $60 worth of ingredients (your protein, chillies, lemongrass, galangal, palm sugar, shrimp paste, fish sauce, peanut oil, coriander, coconut milk, Thai basil, kaffir lime leaves, limes, lychees if that's your thing, and so on). So if you're only making one meal it's seriously not worth it (you can buy a decent Thai curry for a fraction of that price). But if you make 10-12 portions of curry (or you make a large batch of curry paste and use it for different dishes) then it starts to become cheaper per-portion.
azinman2 7y ago
Restaurants will shutter, and hourly workers dependent on tips will majorly suffer. Even the economic stimulus mentioned today won’t go to all the immigrant labor that runs many (most?) kitchens.
AgloeDreams 7y ago
For sure but don't forget that many people cannot work right now and are not getting paid so many people and spending far fewer dollars in whole so their spending may be far far less as a result, for example, buying some bags of rice, beans etc.
cm2187 7y ago
This is still businesses that are going bust and will not reopen when the these lockdowns are lifted (which could take many months).

creato 7y ago

Even delivered groceries are significantly cheaper than eating out. That difference is mostly the income of restaurant workers.

sk5t 7y ago
Yep. Food cost is usually about 1/3 of the bill; 1/3 to rent and overhead, 1/3 to staff. If a few percent can be squeezed from any of those areas, there's the restaurant's profit.
smallgovt 7y ago
If there's a silver lining, it's that takeout is higher margin for restaurants and I'm sure takeout revenue is spiking during city shutdowns.
- selectodude 7y ago
  No it’s not. The margin on one beer is more than two entrees put together.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    But a takeout beer would be higher margin than a sit-in beer.
    - zackbloom 7y ago
      How many people order takeout beer at restaurants? Depending on the city it's often not even legal.
    - wincy 7y ago
      Who would order a takeout beer? If I was going to get takeout and wanted a beer I’d stop at a liquor store or gas station on my way home.
      - pc86 7y ago
        In Pennsylvania at least liquor stores are state run and closed at the moment. You can get beer or wine at some gas stations but that's about it. Anything less popular than huge international brands or very, very popular micro-brews you typically have to go to a beer distributor for and most of those are closed, too (the only ones open are those defying the Governor's strong recommendation to close). Basically if you want anything less popular than Sam Adams-level of popularity, you have to get it from a restaurant.
        LgWoodenBadger 7y ago
        You can get to-go beer (6-packs, growlers, etc.) at any restaurant with a liquor license (provided they sell it that way). You can also get beer AND wine from a large number of grocery stores (Giant, Wegmans, etc.). Only liquor is sold by the state-run stores. There are also all the local micro-breweries...
        quickthrowman 7y ago
        It’s crazy that PA shut down the liquor stores, hopefully there’s enough beer and wine left for the truly bad alcoholics that will seize and die without it, seems like a very foolish decision to me, to add the potential strain of alcoholics in withdrawal to the medical system.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      A lot of people are just gonna hit the liquor store on their way.
    - hodgesrm 7y ago
      That's probably only possible in places like New Orleans. I was surprised to learn about the notion of the "to-go cup" a few years back. It has significant explanatory power in some parts of the city.
      - _delirium 7y ago
        It's not legal in most places, but being temporarily legalized in some. Washington, DC is passing a bill this afternoon [1] allowing takeout places to deliver beer/wine if ordered with at least one food item. I'm guessing other cities will pass something similar. [1] edit: See section 203 photographed here: https://twitter.com/mitchryals/status/1239938801839099905 https://twitter.com/mitchryals/status/1239938801839099905
        sambroner 7y ago
        I couldn't find this by googling. Can you post a link?
        v64 7y ago
        It's part of the COVID-19 Emergency Amendment Act of 2020 [1] that was passed today. [1] http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=653228&f=109&s=27705&m=907416&t=e9e88f3478ef96a84e6da9a6a941197473e9c0f17a04da6fc6e40bf22670a9a5 http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=653228&f=109&s=277...
      - akavi 7y ago
        To-go cups are legal in NYC as of Tuesday, so long as they're sold with food[0]. [0] https://ny.eater.com/2020/3/17/21182052/new-york-state-liquor-authority-restaurant-laws-coronavirus https://ny.eater.com/2020/3/17/21182052/new-york-state-liquo...
- enjo 7y ago
  In today’s world Uber eats, Grubhub, etc take 30% of the gross on an order. No way it’s more profitable than having people in house buying alcohol.
  - karatestomp 7y ago
    The one time I bought on Grubhub I had trouble getting the price to something reasonable even with the coupon I had (only reason I was trying it) because all the menu prices were way higher than at the actual restaurants. Even with (IIRC) the delivery fee waived and a significant % off (I wanna say 20 or 30?) it was about the same as going in. Does Grubhub do the menu-price adjusting part, or do the restaurants? Unlike your average delivery joint the numbers kept getting worse the more you added, too—no "two large two-topping pizzas and breadsticks at 70% menu price" deals or anything like that.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      All of the delivery apps have much higher prices than what you can get at the place yourself. I suggest take-out or drive-thru if you're able.
      - karatestomp 7y ago
        The pricing was a big turn-off for me. The way it added more to the delivery cost per-item rather than being some kind of flat delivery fee, which didn't make much sense, and how it seemed like they were trying to hide the cost of delivery.
    - frgotmylogin 7y ago
      I noticed the same thing a while back with DoorDash when trying to order some Cracker Barrel breakfast. It was something like a 30-40% hike across the board. I emailed DoorDash to ask what was going on with the prices and got a super misleading response along the lines of "our partner restaurants set their own prices" [1]- basically deflecting the blame back at the restaurant. So I emailed Cracker Barrel, and they are not (or were not at the time) partnered with any delivery service. [1] actual text from email: "As stated in our Terms and Conditions, the prices for menu items on DoorDash may differ from the prices on the restaurant's own menu. For example, our restaurant partners are responsible for setting the price of their menu items on DoorDash, and some restaurant partners choose to set different prices than they offer for in-store diners."
mixmastamyk 7y ago
Sounds like you’ve never been to Albertsons. That’s why we usually drive to TJs, a few items are approx 40% cheaper.
cyphar 7y ago
On the other hand, restaurants are operating on economies of scale (and they get wholesale prices for their raw materials -- their groceries are much cheaper per-portion than yours). Don't get me wrong, cooking at home can be cheaper than eating out -- but only if you're cooking large batches of food or are buying ingredients that can be used for more than one meal. You'd be surprised how cheap individual portions of food are for restaurants.
- chii 7y ago
  > Don't get me wrong, cooking at home can be cheaper than eating out cost of raw materials in restaurants are a very small portion of the overall bill the customer pays. A large portion is rent, and an even larger portion is labour/wages. I hear the margins are razor thin at around 5-10% (which is low considering the risks). Not to mention capital expenditure (of which the value, i guess, isn't gonna disappear overnight, so there's that). Cooking at home also tends to be food that you get in season and/or on discount. You don't have a menu at home, and hence, costs at home are both lower in raw materials, and labour costs are zero (assuming you don't pay yourself, and your time isn't able to be spent productively anyway so zero opportunity cost).
  - cyphar 7y ago
    Yes, that's all true but I don't quite see what you're disagreeing with. I agree that it definitely is cheaper for restaurants to cook large numbers of the same meal, and they have many other expenditures which raise the price of your meal. But for a single meal, the question is whether you can cook it for less than the price at an equivalent restaurant. In many cases, this isn't the case unless you're cooking in large quantities and eating the same meal for several sittings. Yes, using seasonal ingredients is a good idea -- but a lot of restaurants also do that, and their groceries are still much cheaper than yours anyway. For example (in Australia), if you want to make just one portion of Thai curry you need at least $60 worth of ingredients (your protein, chillies, lemongrass, galangal, palm sugar, shrimp paste, fish sauce, peanut oil, coriander, coconut milk, Thai basil, kaffir lime leaves, limes, lychees if that's your thing, and so on). So if you're only making one meal it's seriously not worth it (you can buy a decent Thai curry for a fraction of that price). But if you make 10-12 portions of curry (or you make a large batch of curry paste and use it for different dishes) then it starts to become cheaper per-portion.

azinman2 7y ago

Restaurants will shutter, and hourly workers dependent on tips will majorly suffer. Even the economic stimulus mentioned today won’t go to all the immigrant labor that runs many (most?) kitchens.

AgloeDreams 7y ago

For sure but don't forget that many people cannot work right now and are not getting paid so many people and spending far fewer dollars in whole so their spending may be far far less as a result, for example, buying some bags of rice, beans etc.

cm2187 7y ago

This is still businesses that are going bust and will not reopen when the these lockdowns are lifted (which could take many months).