8 ms·

I live in Japan and I experience mild symptoms since last Wednesday but not sure if my symptom is due to Covid-19. In Japan, You have meet two conditions to ta

by warabe 7y ago

I live in Japan and I experience mild symptoms since last Wednesday but not sure if my symptom is due to Covid-19. In Japan, You have meet two conditions to take a CPR test. 1. the symptoms with fever of 37.5 degrees or more continue for 4 days or more (for the eldery and those with underlying disease, "4 days" becomes "2 days") 2. you have strong laxity (malaise) or breathlessness (dyspnea), or you have underlying diseases (diabetes, heart failure, respiratory diseases (such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)) I don't meet the first condition, so I was refused to take a test, but I still have chest tightness and consistent coughing. I wonder where the number "37.5" comes from, and 4 squeal days!? If the article in question is true, these two conditions are totally meaningless. So why is taking a PCR test so hard in Japan? Most people believe it is due to Olympic. The Japanese prime minister, Shinzo Abe, still believes we can hold Olympic as planned at this point. To that end, they want to hide the case of infection as possible. I feel strong anger towards my government since they care more about Olympic than human lives. At this point, Olympic will be inevitably postponed. I hope my government is smart enough to loosen the conditions and let people to take PCR tests immediately…

johnohara 7y ago
The symptoms you describe are very similar to those articulated by these two CoV patients who were aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship which docked in Japan. Here is their vlog on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2E1t3yMXgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2E1t3yMXgE The husband describes his experience with temperature and thermometers in the first 5 minutes. The similarity to your symptoms begins at ~ 5:00. This whole video is worth an investment of 38 minutes. 5M+ views.
leftyted 7y ago
Sounds like the government is correctly rationing tests. My sense is that the vast majority of the healthy population shouldn't get tested even if they might have the virus because the infrastructure doesn't support widespread testing (anywhere -- as far as I know). They should act as if they have the virus and stay home, rest, drink a lot of water, and take NSAIDs if the pain gets out of hand. I've been sick since last week (much improved yesterday and today) and it could definitely be covid-19. But there's no point in trying to get tested. If I felt the symptoms were serious (significant difficulty breathing) then I'd go to an ER or call 911. Also, 37.5 is a fairly low fever.
- ouaiueoaieaeoiu 7y ago
  Note, France is warning against NSAIDs specifically for COVID-19. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...
  - kkwteh 7y ago
    In the Guardian article in the parent comment, the warning says that any anti-inflammatory drug may be a risk, not just NSAIDs. They include cortisone as an example of a drug to avoid, which is a non-NSAID anti-inflammatory.
    - takeda 7y ago
      Wouldn't that just leave steroids, which is generally never good idea to give when you have an infection as far as I know.
      - nicoburns 7y ago
        I think it's generally the case that taking pain killers isn't a fantastic idea when you have an infection. Of course, for mild infections there's little consequence, but in this case it might be best to avoid them. Just wrap up warm and stay hydrated.
- learnstats2 7y ago
  current advice is: DON'T take NSAIDs (e.g. ibuprofen), which may cause complications due to interaction with immune system. do take paracetamol
  - sveng 7y ago
    aka Tylenol (acetaminophen) in the USA. Consult your doctor. Not sure what this means for children, but this directive against NSAIDs is a really important development in treatment protocols for COVID-19.
netsharc 7y ago
Isn't it the case that most countries in the world don't have enough tests, it seems only South Korea does. I live in Switzerland and they are also restricting tests to higher risk groups, and people with worse conditions (which is a bit grim, how dead do I need to be before I can get a test?) Either it's due to Olympics, or just logistics. Will the Olympics even happen if Japan is declared "OK" but many guest nations still have sick people?
- E14n 7y ago
  I would guess their criteria for testing is people who could develop into a critical situation quickly because the tests are not 100 percent reliable and they are slow. They were talking about having a televised only Olympics which might work if there were enough countries with athletes willing to fly to Japan.
- dustinmoris 7y ago
  It's not really about how bad your symptoms get before you can get tested. It's about WHERE you are. Coronavirus is a virus after all, just like the flu, there is no medication. You can only treat the symptoms, but not the virus itself (as opposed to a bacterial infection where you can attack the bacteria with antibiotics). So with these undeniable facts it's fairly simple, if your symptoms are so mild that you can cure it out at home without special medical equipment like a ventilator, then you don't need testing. You just have to self isolate yourself for two weeks, get over it and afterwards you are fine and not contagious, so no way of further transmission and therefore no need to test. If however you develop severe symptopms and need hospitalisation, then they have to test you so they know if they need to isolate you in hospital away from other patiens and protect staff or if you can get a bed amongst everyone else. That is really the only reason. Your treatment in or outside hospital does not change at all whether you have breathing difficulties because of COVID-19 or any other influenza. So that is it.
  - michaelyoshika 7y ago
    Don't know why this is downvoted. Doctors can't treat the virus but only the symptoms, even for the flu. From a public health perspective, if you have any symptoms, be it covid-19 or flu, just isolate yourself for the health of others.
kazinator 7y ago
> but I still have chest tightness and consistent coughing Could be hayfever. 花粉症の時期が始まったからね。
E14n 7y ago
I would assume its because the number of people with similar symptoms far exceeds the capacity to test for covid-19. If the numbers in this article[1] are accurate there were around 2.23 million people who went to the doctor for flu related symptoms from January 21 to 27, 2019. 1. https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00386/japan-gripped-by-major-flu-outbreak.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00386/japan-gripped-by...
chinathrow 7y ago
Are you having issues with your smell/taste? A german virologist talked to symptomatic patients and found that most patients were stating that they lost smell/taste for days. "Almost all infected people we interviewed, and this applies to a good two thirds, described a loss of smell and taste lasting several days." https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavirus/virologe-hendrik-streeck-ueber-corona-neue-symptome-entdeckt-16681450.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavi...
- war1025 7y ago
  I have a terrible sense of smell to begin with. I always wonder what people with good senses of smell experience on a daily basis. But I can generally taste things, so this is good to know.
- lebuffon 7y ago
  Loss of taste is caused by loss of smell, is my understanding. That is consistent with the colds that cause significant nasal congestion causing a loss of the ability to smell and therefore taste as well. I have read that a few of the "common cold" infections are also caused by different species of "corona virus" so this is perhaps not too surprising.
surfsvammel 7y ago
I think there is a more reasonable explanation why they are not testing you. Simply because they wouldn’t do anything with that information anyway. If the test is positive they’ll send you home to quarantine telling you to call back if your fever worsens. If the test would show negative, they’d tell you, guess what; “please call back if your fever worsens, and stay in quarantine anyway”. So the information doesn’t really matter. In Sweden once they change tactics from trying to track each and every case, and who they might have gotten it from etc, to a a strategy more about just accepting that it’s spreading and trying to limit the spread in general, and protect the weak. Then they also stopped doing testing here. Unless you are in a risk group, the test doesn’t really make a difference.
- watwut 7y ago
  > So the information doesn’t really matter. It would matter to me. If I know I have it, I would stay at home and have somebody else do shopping and leave stuff in front of the door. If I dont know that, I do shopping by myself. Having it or not is also difference between whether one can join one of those programs where young people shop for elderly and leave stuff in front of the door. Of course the caution must be taken with everyone, but also those with confirmed case are out. It makes difference for people who still have to go to work. Even official expectations on people with corronavirus are different then on others.
  - mynegation 7y ago
    I tend to agree with you, I would like to know as well. But consider this: if it is cold or flu - would you want to risk your health being more prone to the infection while your immune system fights another virus, or bringing more people into the same situation in circumstances like these?
    - watwut 7y ago
      If it is cold of flu, when it passed, it passed. 7 days and you are fine. Corona is can get better and become worst and take weeks. So it is still a difference.
MadSudaca 7y ago
What would you change if you take the test and come positive?
- yardstick 7y ago
  Gut instinct: - More likely to strictly adhere to the lockdown - Post recovery / quarantine period, if (big IF) you now have immunity and aren’t risking infecting others anymore, you could be more productive in the world. - Helping others with their food/supplies/whatever. Heck, even spending more money on take out food which helps the economy. The idea of building up a herd immunity seems to me to require knowing who has the immunity so we know when we have enough.
- Amarok 7y ago
  Get a blood test. If CRP raised and lymphopenic, likelihood of ARDS requiring ITU admission is higher. This can happen very quickly after the first week, so I'd put pressure on the doctor to keep me hospitalized.
Amarok 7y ago
If you're really desperate for a test go to the hospital and say you feel breathless. Dyspnoea is a subjective symptom but no doctor worth it's salt would just ignore it without investigating further.
cmod 7y ago
I suspect the reason for fewer tests is, as many have pointed out, because of a lack of tests rather than overt political malfeasance. Note: Yesterday they performed 3.4k tests,[0] which is aprox 30% of the total tests to date in a single day. Tests are ramping up as supplies come online. [0] https://covid19japan.com/ https://covid19japan.com/
- warabe 7y ago
  The government says they can perform around 7,500 test a day. However, the total number of tests are much lower than that. Please see the data below. https://toyokeizai.net/sp/visual/tko/covid19/en.html https://toyokeizai.net/sp/visual/tko/covid19/en.html 3/17 is kind of an outlier, because there were too many tests for those who were in close contact with suspected carriers.

by warabe 7y ago

johnohara 7y ago

The symptoms you describe are very similar to those articulated by these two CoV patients who were aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship which docked in Japan. Here is their vlog on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2E1t3yMXgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2E1t3yMXgE The husband describes his experience with temperature and thermometers in the first 5 minutes. The similarity to your symptoms begins at ~ 5:00. This whole video is worth an investment of 38 minutes. 5M+ views.

leftyted 7y ago

Sounds like the government is correctly rationing tests. My sense is that the vast majority of the healthy population shouldn't get tested even if they might have the virus because the infrastructure doesn't support widespread testing (anywhere -- as far as I know). They should act as if they have the virus and stay home, rest, drink a lot of water, and take NSAIDs if the pain gets out of hand. I've been sick since last week (much improved yesterday and today) and it could definitely be covid-19. But there's no point in trying to get tested. If I felt the symptoms were serious (significant difficulty breathing) then I'd go to an ER or call 911. Also, 37.5 is a fairly low fever.

ouaiueoaieaeoiu 7y ago
Note, France is warning against NSAIDs specifically for COVID-19. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...
- kkwteh 7y ago
  In the Guardian article in the parent comment, the warning says that any anti-inflammatory drug may be a risk, not just NSAIDs. They include cortisone as an example of a drug to avoid, which is a non-NSAID anti-inflammatory.
  - takeda 7y ago
    Wouldn't that just leave steroids, which is generally never good idea to give when you have an infection as far as I know.
    - nicoburns 7y ago
      I think it's generally the case that taking pain killers isn't a fantastic idea when you have an infection. Of course, for mild infections there's little consequence, but in this case it might be best to avoid them. Just wrap up warm and stay hydrated.
learnstats2 7y ago
current advice is: DON'T take NSAIDs (e.g. ibuprofen), which may cause complications due to interaction with immune system. do take paracetamol
- sveng 7y ago
  aka Tylenol (acetaminophen) in the USA. Consult your doctor. Not sure what this means for children, but this directive against NSAIDs is a really important development in treatment protocols for COVID-19.

netsharc 7y ago

Isn't it the case that most countries in the world don't have enough tests, it seems only South Korea does. I live in Switzerland and they are also restricting tests to higher risk groups, and people with worse conditions (which is a bit grim, how dead do I need to be before I can get a test?) Either it's due to Olympics, or just logistics. Will the Olympics even happen if Japan is declared "OK" but many guest nations still have sick people?

E14n 7y ago
I would guess their criteria for testing is people who could develop into a critical situation quickly because the tests are not 100 percent reliable and they are slow. They were talking about having a televised only Olympics which might work if there were enough countries with athletes willing to fly to Japan.
dustinmoris 7y ago
It's not really about how bad your symptoms get before you can get tested. It's about WHERE you are. Coronavirus is a virus after all, just like the flu, there is no medication. You can only treat the symptoms, but not the virus itself (as opposed to a bacterial infection where you can attack the bacteria with antibiotics). So with these undeniable facts it's fairly simple, if your symptoms are so mild that you can cure it out at home without special medical equipment like a ventilator, then you don't need testing. You just have to self isolate yourself for two weeks, get over it and afterwards you are fine and not contagious, so no way of further transmission and therefore no need to test. If however you develop severe symptopms and need hospitalisation, then they have to test you so they know if they need to isolate you in hospital away from other patiens and protect staff or if you can get a bed amongst everyone else. That is really the only reason. Your treatment in or outside hospital does not change at all whether you have breathing difficulties because of COVID-19 or any other influenza. So that is it.
- michaelyoshika 7y ago
  Don't know why this is downvoted. Doctors can't treat the virus but only the symptoms, even for the flu. From a public health perspective, if you have any symptoms, be it covid-19 or flu, just isolate yourself for the health of others.

kazinator 7y ago

> but I still have chest tightness and consistent coughing Could be hayfever. 花粉症の時期が始まったからね。

E14n 7y ago

I would assume its because the number of people with similar symptoms far exceeds the capacity to test for covid-19. If the numbers in this article[1] are accurate there were around 2.23 million people who went to the doctor for flu related symptoms from January 21 to 27, 2019. 1. https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00386/japan-gripped-by-major-flu-outbreak.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00386/japan-gripped-by...

chinathrow 7y ago

Are you having issues with your smell/taste? A german virologist talked to symptomatic patients and found that most patients were stating that they lost smell/taste for days. "Almost all infected people we interviewed, and this applies to a good two thirds, described a loss of smell and taste lasting several days." https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavirus/virologe-hendrik-streeck-ueber-corona-neue-symptome-entdeckt-16681450.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavi...

war1025 7y ago
I have a terrible sense of smell to begin with. I always wonder what people with good senses of smell experience on a daily basis. But I can generally taste things, so this is good to know.
lebuffon 7y ago
Loss of taste is caused by loss of smell, is my understanding. That is consistent with the colds that cause significant nasal congestion causing a loss of the ability to smell and therefore taste as well. I have read that a few of the "common cold" infections are also caused by different species of "corona virus" so this is perhaps not too surprising.

surfsvammel 7y ago

I think there is a more reasonable explanation why they are not testing you. Simply because they wouldn’t do anything with that information anyway. If the test is positive they’ll send you home to quarantine telling you to call back if your fever worsens. If the test would show negative, they’d tell you, guess what; “please call back if your fever worsens, and stay in quarantine anyway”. So the information doesn’t really matter. In Sweden once they change tactics from trying to track each and every case, and who they might have gotten it from etc, to a a strategy more about just accepting that it’s spreading and trying to limit the spread in general, and protect the weak. Then they also stopped doing testing here. Unless you are in a risk group, the test doesn’t really make a difference.

watwut 7y ago
> So the information doesn’t really matter. It would matter to me. If I know I have it, I would stay at home and have somebody else do shopping and leave stuff in front of the door. If I dont know that, I do shopping by myself. Having it or not is also difference between whether one can join one of those programs where young people shop for elderly and leave stuff in front of the door. Of course the caution must be taken with everyone, but also those with confirmed case are out. It makes difference for people who still have to go to work. Even official expectations on people with corronavirus are different then on others.
- mynegation 7y ago
  I tend to agree with you, I would like to know as well. But consider this: if it is cold or flu - would you want to risk your health being more prone to the infection while your immune system fights another virus, or bringing more people into the same situation in circumstances like these?
  - watwut 7y ago
    If it is cold of flu, when it passed, it passed. 7 days and you are fine. Corona is can get better and become worst and take weeks. So it is still a difference.

MadSudaca 7y ago

What would you change if you take the test and come positive?

yardstick 7y ago
Gut instinct: - More likely to strictly adhere to the lockdown - Post recovery / quarantine period, if (big IF) you now have immunity and aren’t risking infecting others anymore, you could be more productive in the world. - Helping others with their food/supplies/whatever. Heck, even spending more money on take out food which helps the economy. The idea of building up a herd immunity seems to me to require knowing who has the immunity so we know when we have enough.
Amarok 7y ago
Get a blood test. If CRP raised and lymphopenic, likelihood of ARDS requiring ITU admission is higher. This can happen very quickly after the first week, so I'd put pressure on the doctor to keep me hospitalized.

Amarok 7y ago

If you're really desperate for a test go to the hospital and say you feel breathless. Dyspnoea is a subjective symptom but no doctor worth it's salt would just ignore it without investigating further.

cmod 7y ago

I suspect the reason for fewer tests is, as many have pointed out, because of a lack of tests rather than overt political malfeasance. Note: Yesterday they performed 3.4k tests,[0] which is aprox 30% of the total tests to date in a single day. Tests are ramping up as supplies come online. [0] https://covid19japan.com/ https://covid19japan.com/

warabe 7y ago
The government says they can perform around 7,500 test a day. However, the total number of tests are much lower than that. Please see the data below. https://toyokeizai.net/sp/visual/tko/covid19/en.html https://toyokeizai.net/sp/visual/tko/covid19/en.html 3/17 is kind of an outlier, because there were too many tests for those who were in close contact with suspected carriers.