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Censorship is the path that leads to tyranny. Better to have all sides without being muzzled. Today’s truth can be tomorrow’s fake news and vice versa. Either

Censorship is the path that leads to tyranny. Better to have all sides without being muzzled. Today’s truth can be tomorrow’s fake news and vice versa. Either they are publishers or platforms. They can always put disclaimers by every “news.”

maccard 7y ago
The issue is that these companies are now providing a platform for the "village idiot", and it's up to people to differentiate truth from falsehoods, which is surprisingly difficult to do on a topic you don't know anyything about.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  News media has direct business relationships with these platforms. This isn't about some village idiot. If you are fascinated by village idiots, you are their audience.
- FeepingCreature 7y ago
  I'd much rather it be up to the people than up to one person, especially one who is unaccountable.
- stephenr 7y ago
  (Paraphrasing Colin Lane here) In some cases, it's the village idiot, in a village full of village idiots.
- itronitron 7y ago
  Even worse their letting village idiots target individual users based on their 'profiles'
- bjourne 7y ago
  Are you old enough to remember the lead up to the 2003 Iraq war? The village idiots are maybe not who you think they are.
izacus 7y ago
> Censorship is the path that leads to tyranny. And untethered fake news propaganda leads to world wars and butchery of millions of innocent people. There's a balance to be struck and right now, with unfettered capitalism and no social contract in USA, there's just too many people that wish to abuse news to hurt and even cause death of other people.
- sjeohp 7y ago
  > fake news propaganda leads to world wars and butchery of millions of innocent people. What are you referring to here? Wars and butchery have been reliably championed throughout history by regular news propaganda.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  True, remember when Alex Jones told us Saddam had WMDs and we went to war? Crazy times...
Angostura 7y ago
> Better to have all sides without being muzzled. And misinformation about health issues leads to deaths
- techntoke 7y ago
  Probably over 50% of movies glamorizes dangerous drug usage, affairs, violence, etc. Same with video games. Does that mean they should be held responsible when someone does something and says, well I thought that was normal because I heard/saw it there?
- buzzkillington 7y ago
  And what happens when the censors are the ones lying? This is how the virus spread so far in China in the first place.
  - jhanschoo 7y ago
    In a healthy democracy, there are appropriate mechanisms that hold censors accountable than the average layman, so that they do not abuse their office. For this reason they are granted a louder voice. To be precise, social media platforms do not censor, but selectively grant certain entities a louder voice at a subsidized cost. Of course, these companies are out of the reach of the checks that the US government is laden with, and this should be managed by regulation or other form of checks.
    - buzzkillington 7y ago
      >In a healthy democracy, there are appropriate mechanisms that hold censors accountable than the average layman, so that they do not abuse their office. For this reason they are granted a louder voice. The majority of the world does not live under healthy democracies. That the west is copying this failed model is concerning.
      - jhanschoo 7y ago
        This counterargument isn't fatal to my point, though I tailored it to the parent comment (re: censors). There are people who can be more easily held accountable for their words, and people for whom it is difficult, or inappropriate, to punish for spouting false information. The responsible broadcaster amplifies the words of people that can be held accountable, and amplifies voices of people that cannot be held accountable only cautiously, and inside certain framed mindset (e.g. reported speech, call out lies, provide a contrasting perspective by a person who can be more easily be held accountable). With respect to social media, it is clear that it is inappropriate and impossible to hold most laypeople accountable for spreading false information, and so it is responsible broadcasting to only amplify these voices to a limited extent. I think that it is clear to you that I don't support unconditional free broadcast of factual claims in the Internet age, but one where one's reach must be matched by how much they have staked on the correctness of their information, proportional to the severity of the issue they are weighing in on.
fsh 7y ago
Any democracy I know (including the US) has used censorship in times of crisis throughout its history. There is little indication that the "slippery slope" is more than a fallacy.
- sjeohp 7y ago
  > There is little indication that the "slippery slope" is more than a fallacy. If the slippery slope were real and the control of information successful, you might still think this.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  Any example for when it was necessary and when it was abused?
  - fsh 7y ago
    In the US reporters were censored during every war. The most egregious abuse was probably during the Red Scare in the 50s.
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      Yes, but was that justified? Any examples for that? Especially on the topic of war a free press was the reason people started to get to know the darker side of war instead of the usual heroic depictions propaganda often proclaimed. We are not talking about war related strategic information here, so I don't understand your position. I still don't know about any examples. There should be at least some if it is dismissed as necessary.
heyoo 7y ago
Agree. An exception is when one or more sides are playing foul game by using fake accounts to spread propaganda. E.g. look at Bot Sentinel top 100 trollbots [1]. #1 @BrandonBeckham_ is (from my judgment) a fake twitter account [2]. He poses as a veteran Christian that loves everything Trump. All he posts is pro-Trump stuff & Donald J. Trump retweets him frequently. This is the stuff that needs moderation for misinformation. But somehow this stuff is just ignored by Big Tech. [1]: https://botsentinel.com/top-100 https://botsentinel.com/top-100 [2]: https://twitter.com/brandonbeckham_ https://twitter.com/brandonbeckham_

maccard 7y ago

The issue is that these companies are now providing a platform for the "village idiot", and it's up to people to differentiate truth from falsehoods, which is surprisingly difficult to do on a topic you don't know anyything about.

raxxorrax 7y ago
News media has direct business relationships with these platforms. This isn't about some village idiot. If you are fascinated by village idiots, you are their audience.
FeepingCreature 7y ago
I'd much rather it be up to the people than up to one person, especially one who is unaccountable.
stephenr 7y ago
(Paraphrasing Colin Lane here) In some cases, it's the village idiot, in a village full of village idiots.
itronitron 7y ago
Even worse their letting village idiots target individual users based on their 'profiles'
bjourne 7y ago
Are you old enough to remember the lead up to the 2003 Iraq war? The village idiots are maybe not who you think they are.

izacus 7y ago

> Censorship is the path that leads to tyranny. And untethered fake news propaganda leads to world wars and butchery of millions of innocent people. There's a balance to be struck and right now, with unfettered capitalism and no social contract in USA, there's just too many people that wish to abuse news to hurt and even cause death of other people.

sjeohp 7y ago
> fake news propaganda leads to world wars and butchery of millions of innocent people. What are you referring to here? Wars and butchery have been reliably championed throughout history by regular news propaganda.
raxxorrax 7y ago
True, remember when Alex Jones told us Saddam had WMDs and we went to war? Crazy times...

Angostura 7y ago

> Better to have all sides without being muzzled. And misinformation about health issues leads to deaths

techntoke 7y ago
Probably over 50% of movies glamorizes dangerous drug usage, affairs, violence, etc. Same with video games. Does that mean they should be held responsible when someone does something and says, well I thought that was normal because I heard/saw it there?
buzzkillington 7y ago
And what happens when the censors are the ones lying? This is how the virus spread so far in China in the first place.
- jhanschoo 7y ago
  In a healthy democracy, there are appropriate mechanisms that hold censors accountable than the average layman, so that they do not abuse their office. For this reason they are granted a louder voice. To be precise, social media platforms do not censor, but selectively grant certain entities a louder voice at a subsidized cost. Of course, these companies are out of the reach of the checks that the US government is laden with, and this should be managed by regulation or other form of checks.
  - buzzkillington 7y ago
    >In a healthy democracy, there are appropriate mechanisms that hold censors accountable than the average layman, so that they do not abuse their office. For this reason they are granted a louder voice. The majority of the world does not live under healthy democracies. That the west is copying this failed model is concerning.
    - jhanschoo 7y ago
      This counterargument isn't fatal to my point, though I tailored it to the parent comment (re: censors). There are people who can be more easily held accountable for their words, and people for whom it is difficult, or inappropriate, to punish for spouting false information. The responsible broadcaster amplifies the words of people that can be held accountable, and amplifies voices of people that cannot be held accountable only cautiously, and inside certain framed mindset (e.g. reported speech, call out lies, provide a contrasting perspective by a person who can be more easily be held accountable). With respect to social media, it is clear that it is inappropriate and impossible to hold most laypeople accountable for spreading false information, and so it is responsible broadcasting to only amplify these voices to a limited extent. I think that it is clear to you that I don't support unconditional free broadcast of factual claims in the Internet age, but one where one's reach must be matched by how much they have staked on the correctness of their information, proportional to the severity of the issue they are weighing in on.

fsh 7y ago

Any democracy I know (including the US) has used censorship in times of crisis throughout its history. There is little indication that the "slippery slope" is more than a fallacy.

sjeohp 7y ago
> There is little indication that the "slippery slope" is more than a fallacy. If the slippery slope were real and the control of information successful, you might still think this.
raxxorrax 7y ago
Any example for when it was necessary and when it was abused?
- fsh 7y ago
  In the US reporters were censored during every war. The most egregious abuse was probably during the Red Scare in the 50s.
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    Yes, but was that justified? Any examples for that? Especially on the topic of war a free press was the reason people started to get to know the darker side of war instead of the usual heroic depictions propaganda often proclaimed. We are not talking about war related strategic information here, so I don't understand your position. I still don't know about any examples. There should be at least some if it is dismissed as necessary.

heyoo 7y ago

Agree. An exception is when one or more sides are playing foul game by using fake accounts to spread propaganda. E.g. look at Bot Sentinel top 100 trollbots [1]. #1 @BrandonBeckham_ is (from my judgment) a fake twitter account [2]. He poses as a veteran Christian that loves everything Trump. All he posts is pro-Trump stuff & Donald J. Trump retweets him frequently. This is the stuff that needs moderation for misinformation. But somehow this stuff is just ignored by Big Tech. [1]: https://botsentinel.com/top-100 https://botsentinel.com/top-100 [2]: https://twitter.com/brandonbeckham_ https://twitter.com/brandonbeckham_