4 ms·

He's talking about after you filter them with automation. When you have enough machines, 10 of them are always running hot.

popinman322 7y ago
It's Google; they have sufficient ML capacity to filter cases. It might require additional manpower in the short term, but it also lowers the likelihood of infrastructure failure long-term. What might not make sense, resource-wise, to smaller companies does start to make sense at their scale.
- jldugger 7y ago
  Anomaly detection on timeseries data is surprisingly bad. The data tends to be bad in all the wrong ways -- seasonal, and not normally distributed. And worse, you have no training data, so ML model you train simply learns whatever badness is allowed to persist in production as normal.
  - cranekam 7y ago
    I worked at a FAANG and every now and then someone proposed or tried to make an anomaly detection system. They never worked well. It’s an extremely difficult thing to get right. Better to just have good monitoring of whether your system is responsive/available/reliable and ways to quickly work out why it’s not.
Nextgrid 7y ago
The "hot" we're talking here is beyond what the machines are specced for and suggests something is wrong (in this case the rack was tilted and it was messing with the cooling system). That should never happen under normal operation, otherwise it suggests a bigger problem (either the whole building is too hot, or there's a design flaw in the cooling system).
- joshuamorton 7y ago
  Lots of things that should "never" happen start to happen with frightening regularity once you have enough machines. Few of them are worth paging someone.
  - dijit 7y ago
    Those are two extremes. For me, when a machine reports as abnormal it will decommission itself and file a ticket to be looked at, we have enough extra capacity that it’s ok to do this for 5% of compute before we have issues, and we have an alert if it gets close to that. If you’re doing anything other than that then either your machines are abnormal and functioning, which is scary because they’re now in an unknown state- or you’re able to just throw out anything that seems weird, which might also hide issues with the environment.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    Whether you page someone or not, a machine hitting thermal throttling repeatedly should be just as notable as the abnormal failure rate that started the investigation.
dnautics 7y ago
> When you have enough machines, 10 of them are always running hot. Sure, but isn't there rack-level toplogy information that should warn when all of the elements in a rack are complaining? That should statistically be a pretty rare occurrence, except over short periods, say, < 5-10 hours.

popinman322 7y ago

It's Google; they have sufficient ML capacity to filter cases. It might require additional manpower in the short term, but it also lowers the likelihood of infrastructure failure long-term. What might not make sense, resource-wise, to smaller companies does start to make sense at their scale.

jldugger 7y ago
Anomaly detection on timeseries data is surprisingly bad. The data tends to be bad in all the wrong ways -- seasonal, and not normally distributed. And worse, you have no training data, so ML model you train simply learns whatever badness is allowed to persist in production as normal.
- cranekam 7y ago
  I worked at a FAANG and every now and then someone proposed or tried to make an anomaly detection system. They never worked well. It’s an extremely difficult thing to get right. Better to just have good monitoring of whether your system is responsive/available/reliable and ways to quickly work out why it’s not.

Nextgrid 7y ago

The "hot" we're talking here is beyond what the machines are specced for and suggests something is wrong (in this case the rack was tilted and it was messing with the cooling system). That should never happen under normal operation, otherwise it suggests a bigger problem (either the whole building is too hot, or there's a design flaw in the cooling system).

joshuamorton 7y ago
Lots of things that should "never" happen start to happen with frightening regularity once you have enough machines. Few of them are worth paging someone.
- dijit 7y ago
  Those are two extremes. For me, when a machine reports as abnormal it will decommission itself and file a ticket to be looked at, we have enough extra capacity that it’s ok to do this for 5% of compute before we have issues, and we have an alert if it gets close to that. If you’re doing anything other than that then either your machines are abnormal and functioning, which is scary because they’re now in an unknown state- or you’re able to just throw out anything that seems weird, which might also hide issues with the environment.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  Whether you page someone or not, a machine hitting thermal throttling repeatedly should be just as notable as the abnormal failure rate that started the investigation.

dnautics 7y ago

> When you have enough machines, 10 of them are always running hot. Sure, but isn't there rack-level toplogy information that should warn when all of the elements in a rack are complaining? That should statistically be a pretty rare occurrence, except over short periods, say, < 5-10 hours.