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USA tried to pay Germans so coronavirus cure vaccine would be exclusive to USA
- brenschluss 7y agoThis is absolutely despicable. This is a country on capitalism, where profits and business strategy mean more than care and responsibility.
- onetimemanytime 7y agoProb wanted to make sure that USA would be served first...
- curiousgal 7y agoBecause that's what the word "exclusive" means.
- whatabout22 7y agoWell, not really. Exclusive implies "only", not "first".
- curiousgal 7y agoYes, I was being sarcastic.
- hombre_fatal 7y agoLet's keep the rhetoric on HN above sarcasm. It's not even clever. You just say the opposite of what you mean, so it does especially poorly in text form.
- curiousgal 7y agoLet's keep the rhetoric on HN to whatever gets the point across. I am well aware of HN's etiquette. So well that I already regret engaging in this pointless conversation.
- hombre_fatal 7y agoYour point obviously didn't come across so well. For next time, consider if this thread would have advanced this far had you just said "That's not what the word "exclusive" means, <it means this>."
- curiousgal 7y agoYou didn't really have to reply either. Judging by the upvotes on my original comment, my point did come across.
- slowmovintarget 7y agoChina is a country with unconstrained capitalism. U.S. has constrained capitalism. Before you go down that rabbit-hole, please consider that capitalism is not a policy engine. It is a means of production, and in fact the only meaningful system of production left in whole world. That doesn't make it good or evil. People are good and evil. The policies they apply can have good and evil effects. Capitalism can be employed to raise the poor out of poverty, or to keep them there. It can be used to effectively help the sick, or ignore them. Constrained capitalism coupled with sensible policies, kind, honorable people to administer them, and communities with a sense of charity to share the benefits produce some of the best results the world has ever seen. But it is the quality of people in which we're lacking. Confiscation and coercion won't improve things, it always makes bad situations worse. We need administrators more interested in making the government work for the governed than for the governing. We've not had that for quite some time.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jahaja 7y agoA system should be judged by the outcomes of the incentives it promotes. Too many people seem to think that these incentives are somehow disconnected from capitalism. For example, capitalist incentives do not encourage corporations and businesses to be able to handle a crisis like this, instead they encourage to pay out as much as possible to their owners & execs - skipping a "bad times" margin. To add insult to injury the larger corps can feel safe with this behavior since they'll get bailed out by the state.
- onetimemanytime 7y agoGerman article: https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article206555143/Corona-USA-will-Zugriff-auf-deutsche-Impfstoff-Firma.html https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article206555143/Corona-USA-w... Translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Farticle206555143%2FCorona-USA-will-Zugriff-auf-deutsche-Impfstoff-Firma.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...
- NicoJuicy 7y agoIn time of need, you know your friends. How would you explain Trump's "America First" when the solution isn't coming from the US. I hope he gets what he asked for, having to admit that the possible solution is coming from a ally. ( I'm not talking about Americans in general fyi. I hope the vaccine will be available to all)
- 13415 7y agoThe fact that the CEO was fired with prejudice and replaced by the former CEO unfortunately speaks for the theory that this was about an exclusive deal with the US, where the offer was coming from the highest level of the US administration. IMHO, if true, that would be batshit crazy.
- curiousgal 7y agoI mean that either means that the CEO was fired for accepting the deal or that (s)he was replaced with someone that will do so. I am loving how this epidemic is exposing all of our system's flaws. Edit: the old CEO was American, he was replaced with a German founder. So that narrows it down.
- tmpz22 7y agoAs an American citizen please Germany don’t be submissive in your response to this. Publish the emails, the phone calls, sanction us, go to the press. We deserve it.
- jszymborski 7y agoI don't know. I think the answer in a crisis is less finger-pointing and more visible displays of willingness to cooperate with one another. There'll be plenty of time after the crisis to bring out the guillotines.
- soared 7y agoIMO a better outcome might come from the odds of the entire world without the USA, rather than than solely the USA getting the vaccine and distributing as we see fit.
- jszymborski 7y agoIndeed, but Germany achieving that outcome by making this a PR war will just make global cooperation less likely. This needs to be achieved by the EU leveraging as much cash as it can from other countries with an agreement to distribute the vaccine by some WHO index of need. In this way, you outbid the US by showing collaboration works. We can't waver on global health priorities, but let the USA admin shout its way into darkness alone and not drag in global cooperation with it.
- stainforth 7y agoYou'd let the marauder escape, like always.
- luckydata 7y agoFinger pointing is definitely required. Turning the other cheek doesn't work when interacting with a psychopath.
- 7y ago
- klft 7y agoDuplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22584108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22584108
- praptak 7y agoLet's unleash the free market on the (globally) unique rights to things that save lives. What could possibly go wrong?
- Fjolsvith 7y ago> the (globally) unique rights to things that save lives This I don't understand. I don't have a right to nutritious food - I have to work to get that. Where do these rights come from?
- praptak 7y agoI meant the patent(s) covering the vaccine. If there was a single global patent on making nutritious food, we'd have the same problem.
- Pfhreak 7y ago> I don't have a right to nutritious food Many, many people would disagree with that statement. Who says you don't have a right to nutritious food?
- erulabs 7y agoVirtually anyone who understands positive versus negative rights. Rights -to- something are highly dubious. Rights -from- something are much more readily agreed on by Americans who value the way the constitution was written. If I have a right to good food - then someone somewhere has lost the right to refuse to serve me - either directly (I’m allowed into their store if they want or not) or indirectly (they are forced to labor in fields in terrible conditions). So - while no one has the right to keep you from creating your own nutrition- you absolutely do not have the right to other people’s nutrition. You can abstract as far as you want - but a right “to” something always boils down to implied forced labor (farmers, doctors - the list goes on and on). Many wars have been waged because people felt they had “a right” to a piece of land or a resource. To be clear I’m not saying i think we should keep good food from people - of course not. But many many people are rightfully dubious of positive rights.
- napolux 7y agoPlain and simple. * USA acquires a Vaccine * USA Gov. gives the vaccine to some big pharma corp. * Big pharma will patent the vaccine * The world will be sued by big pharma if it come up with a vaccine
- aaomidi 7y agoYeah, the world will ignore the patent and do it's job.
- gamblor956 7y agoMany countries already have laws allowing them to ignore patents (issued by that country or by other countries) for essential medications. A COVID19 vaccine would definitely fall into that category. So unless there's something unique about the process of making the vaccine that is difficult to replicate, an "exclusive US patent" means nothing.
- aaomidi 7y agoYes a patent is nothing but a license. If you abuse it you lose it.
- Johnny555 7y agoTrump's entire platform is "America First", so this should surprise no one. Since I got a few downvotes, I figured I should support this statement with a reference. What's more "America First" than making sure only America gets a vaccine? https://www.promiseskept.com/about/ https://www.promiseskept.com/about/ While serving in office, President Trump has continuously delivered for the American people to put America First both at home and abroad.
- nicehat 7y ago> What's more "America First" than making sure only America gets a vaccine? America developing a vaccine first and sharing it with the world for free would be more "America First." That such an idea sounds laughable shows the effects of 20 years of neoliberal wankery mushing the brains of Americans.
- Johnny555 7y agoThat sounds more like making America #1. America First is a different concept, and would be more like developing a vaccine and making sure Americans are vaccinated before anyone in other countries. But in this case we may not be the first to develop it so we want to buy it for ourselves. Imagine the reaction from Trump's base if he could tell them that "he" secured a vaccine that will only be available to Americans. To be clear, I'd much rather see America (or any country) develop a vaccine and share it to the world free of royalties, but at least in America, that's not the political climate we live in. On April 12, 1955, the day the Salk vaccine was declared “safe, effective and potent,” legendary CBS newsman Edward R. Morrow interviewed its creator and asked who owned the patent. “Well, the people, I would say,” said Salk in light of the millions of charitable donations raised by the March of Dimes that funded the vaccine’s research and field testing. “There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?” Lawyers for the foundation had investigated the possibility of patenting the vaccine but did not pursue it, in part because of Salk’s reluct
- ldng 7y agoIt's not even America First, here we're talking about America Only. Not acceptable for the rest of the world. You're really surprised ?
- strictnein 7y agoFor what it's worth, the company is kind of denying this: > "As a consequence, the company is in contact with especially CEPI and many other organizations and authorities worldwide, however abstains from commenting on speculations and rejects allegations about offers for acquisition of the company or its technology." https://www.curevac.com/news/curevac-focuses-on-the-development-of-mrna-based-coronavirus-vaccine-to-protect-people-worldwide https://www.curevac.com/news/curevac-focuses-on-the-developm...
- spikels 7y agoSounds like the proverbial fake news to me: extraordinary claims, denied by company, doesn’t make sense, etc.
- meddlepal 7y agoAccomplished it's mission of getting a target audience all riled up too!
- Pfhreak 7y ago> In a separate statement, the health ministry told Reuters that the WELT am Sonntag report was accurate: "We confirm the report in the WELT am Sonntag," a spokesperson said. Health ministry seems to confirm it. Calling Fake News on an article without any evidence comes across as needlessly partisan.
- theferalrobot 7y agoYeah and if you read the Reuters report it says the exact opposite of this business insider drivel. > The U.S. government has spoken with many (more than 25) companies that claim they can help with a vaccine. Most of these companies already received seed funding from U.S. investors... any solution found would be shared with the world https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-usa/germany-tries-to-stop-u-s-from-luring-away-firm-seeking-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN2120IV https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-german...
- lopmotr 7y agoThe contentious claim of exclusivity is from an anonymous source and is denied by both the company and the US government. So how can the German health ministry possibly know otherwise? The only official agreement is that “We confirm the report in the WELT am Sonntag,” quote, but it's not clear what exactly they confirmed. From referenced article, it seem to be only “The German government is very interested in ensuring that vaccines and active substances against the new coronavirus are also developed in Germany and Europe.” and “In this regard, the government is in intensive exchange with the company CureVac,”.
- 7y ago
- geebee 7y agoThe story is outrageous. However, how many of you here on HN throw up a red flag when an article uses the word "poach" around scientists and engineers? I'm permanently distrustful when I start to hear this word. I think this was a result of being an engineer in Silicon Valley from the late 90s through 2010 or so. The large Silicon Valley employers (the ones lobbying congress about a shortage of engineers) were clearly involved in an absolutely loathsome no-poach collusion to suppress wages. This doesn't mean I automatically reject the possibility of bad faith when I read stories about "poaching". For example I do agree that USC crossed a line and acted reprehensibly when it "poached" UCSD's Alzheimer's research lab. But I still want to know how much the UCSD scientists were getting paid relative to the housing market nearby (in this case, La Jolla, CA). This info is almost never included in the articles (just like the press is willing to report about how a tech CEO is experiencing hiring difficulties without once mentioning the salary offered). This article suggests something more akin to the USC/UCSD scenario, where it's more than merely hiring away talent. I'd just like a little more information about what they mean by "poached". What were the working conditions and salaries for the German scientists getting "poached"? Are these scientists superstars? You know what large law firms, investment banks, tech companies (post-collusion), and sports teams pay superstars to keep them from being "poached"? The word "poached" implies that engineers and scientists, among others, are not truly free agents, but are owned in some way by their employers - and this worms its way into policy (for example, in how H1B visas are actually controlled by the employer, not bestowed directly onto the employee and/or would-be immigrant). I reject this.
- keiferski 7y agoIn case you only read the headline (which seems to be about every comment in here): Responding to the report, a U.S. official said: “This story is wildly overplayed. The U.S. government has spoken with many (more than 25) companies that claim they can help with a vaccine. Most of these companies already received seed funding from U.S. investors.” “We will continue to talk to any company that claims to be able to help. And any solution found would be shared with the world,” the U.S. official added. A German Health Ministry spokeswoman, confirming a quote in the newspaper, said: “The German government is very interested in ensuring that vaccines and active substances against the new coronavirus are also developed in Germany and Europe.” Welt am Sonntag quoted an unidentified German government source as saying Trump was trying to secure the scientists’ work exclusively, and would do anything to get a vaccine for the United States, “but only for the United States.”
- cstross 7y agoThe problematic bits here are the word "exclusively" and the phrase "but only for the United States". Viral pandemics don't respect frontiers.
- FriendlyNormie 7y agoThe problematic bit here is “unidentified” in “unidentified German government source” which roughly translates to “completely made up”.
- cstross 7y agoThe German government believes it enough that Jens Spahn, their Health Minister, is on the record as saying a US takeover of CureVac won't be allowed to happen, and CureVac removed their (American) CEO last week (following a meeting with Trump, Pence, and other American pharma industry CEOs): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/not-for-sale-anger-in-germany-at-report-trump-seeking-exclusive-coronavirus-vaccine-deal https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/not-for-sale-a... The German interior minister refused to comment but also refused to deny the reports and said it would be discussed in the German government crisis committee -- if it's a made up allegation, a denial would be a cheap and easy way of defusing it. Ergo, there's fire beneath the smoke.
- Animats 7y agoIs this for real? Even Trump isn't that stupid. It's not something that could be a secret if it worked.
- bg24 7y agoIs it a mindless leader of large corporation, or is it Government? It does not reflect the character of USA people.
- luckydata 7y agoI believe it does and quite accurately.
- rad_gruchalski 7y agoWhen one realises that nearly 50% of the population of the country voted the man in... I understand how the presidential election work in the USA. But people always have a choice.
- theklub 7y agoApparently you don't because the population of USA is roughly 330 million and 62 million voted for Trump. No where near 50% of the population.
- lopmotr 7y agoNot voting means you trust the decisions of the people who do vote. So it's like voting for the winner, whoever that might be. In that sense, the vast majority of Americans caused Trump to be elected.
- rad_gruchalski 7y agoYes, you are right. 250m was the voting population in 2016. Turn out was 55%. So 24.8%.
- rad_gruchalski 7y agoOn the other hand, after giving it some thought. I know many American people, some of them voted for Trump. These people are nothing like him. I have no bad experience with any American I know and hold no bad feelings towards the people or the country. Maybe the system isn’t working.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ajnin 7y agoWithholding access to a vaccine to a disease that is causing thousands of victims, thousands of deaths, would be quite literally a crime against humanity. To even consider the idea, presumably for political purposes, is insane.
- chillytoes 7y agoThis story and headline seems misleading at best, and fake news at worst.
- cyphunk 7y agoActually it's been reported very widely in Germany as well with exactly this headline.
- madez 7y agoThe reporting is matched by many very reputable broadcasters and confirmed by government officials on record.
- busymom0 7y agoThe company itself has put out a statement that it's false news. And Reuters has now edited their article and removed the part which said it was confirmed by government official.
- jb775 7y agoDivide and conquer - the single strategy that has consistently worked to defeat and/or control humans throughout all of history. If you trace back to the owners of the parent companies of the media outlets printing stories like this, you are left with a handful of individuals with a very clear anti-Trump agenda. They push stories like this to divide the populace, because a divided populace is easier to control and steer towards the media's own agenda. Need to think for yourselves rather than let the media tell you what to think!
- pcunite 7y ago"A U.S. official said: “This story is wildly overplayed … We will continue to talk to any company that claims to be able to help. And any solution found would be shared with the world.”
- nocturnial 7y agoall the other stories about this have been killed.
- tgafpc2 7y ago110% they misunderstood the US Government offering them exclusive rights in the US market, not for the US market. The foundation of this article is so stupid, even CNN couldn't propose it with a straight face.