30 ms·

Alphabet, Walmart join U.S. effort to speed up coronavirus testing

221 points by ramblenode 7y ago

chevman 7y ago
Why is Google (and for that matter Apple) not helping to track the prior movement of every coronavirus patient where possible to identify additional potentially exposed individuals? Seems fairly straightforward given their massive surveillance infrastructure. Anyone at Apple or Google actually going to pitch in here and offer meaningful help? So far, crickets.
- swiley 7y ago
  Because that would be an incredible violation of privacy and is probably illegal? I’m not even sure China does that.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Korea has a map of all of your travels for the public to see.
    - paulsutter 7y ago
      Could you expand on that?
      - wolco 7y ago
        For those tested positive they trace/record your travels and put it online so everyone can see if they may have been in the area.
  - whoisjuan 7y ago
    Of fucking course, China does that. Watch the videos on how they are dealing with it. There are several on YouTube. When you get in and out of a subway or a building or whatever you have to scan a QR code with WeChat. Otherwise, you're not allowed to proceed. They also take your temperature in all these places and if your temp is higher than normal they send you to a fever clinic, where they determine if you have the virus. If you do, you're isolated and your movement data gets flagged to track other potentially infected individuals.
    - Jommi 7y ago
      Can you link me one?
      - discordance 7y ago
        Location/association tracking and risk profiling is being done in China with Alipay Health Code[0]. Flash green at the checkpoint and you're allowed through. If your app shows yellow or red -> checks and quarantine. 0: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/07/how-global-health-crisis-turns-into-state-run-surveillance-opportunity https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/07/how-gl...
  - davidw 7y ago
    I found this site about Singapore yesterday. This kind of detail would never fly in the US. But they do seem to have used it effectively to track the spread of the disease: https://co.vid19.sg/cases https://co.vid19.sg/cases
    - refurb 7y ago
      Holy crap! That's an impressive set of data. The first thing that came to my mind is HIPAA (I know it's US only). There are more than enough details for each patient to figure out who they are. They list employer, when they traveled, family members, etc.
      - fragmede 7y ago
        That level of detail is definitely enough to unmask an individual but if you wanted to protect the infected person's privacy (while massively violating others' in order to join the data sets), it seems like it would be possible to notify an individual that they were exposed, and not leak the infected person's personal details.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    Oh they’re doing that. You can use AliPay, an omnipresent payments app to get a QR code based on your movements over the past days as tracked by your mobile. If it’s green you’re safe, yellow or red I think you need to be quarantined or at least monitored.
  - usaar333 7y ago
    Both Singapore and South Korea publicly report such data. Names are anonymized, but it isn't that hard to dox them. I personally think it is bad that HIPAA doesn't have epidemic exemptions. Over you have widespread testing, having this info public allows: * Exposed individuals to submit to testing, learning more about who may be exposed = more data and find more exposure * Learn valuable patterns about disease transfer. E.g. Both Singapore and South Korea clusters suggest children aren't playing a significant role in transfer, but aren't enough data to know for sure. With more data, perhaps we would know they aren't and could avoid enormously expensive school closings. Honestly, I'm not sure what the end games of lockdown in Western societies are with a disease that can spread asymptomatically. You need these kind of X area was infected at y time announcements to get high enough testing coverage of potentialy infected people.
  - freyir 7y ago
    Apparently Israel, Iran, and China are all using people’ cell phones to track infected people. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/03/14/coronavirus-spy-apps-israel-joins-iran-and-china-tracking-citizens-smartphones-to-fight-covid-19/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman...
- plerpin 7y ago
  I don't think the location history is very accurate. Either the polling interval is too low, or they use less power consuming location services, but Google fudges my history a good amount of time.
  - Skunkleton 7y ago
    If you have google location history turned on you can see it in maps. Its pretty accurate. It couldn’t tell you for sure you were in with 5 feet of a known case, but it certainly would give a useful signal.
- ivanfon 7y ago
  It would probably be bad PR for them to reveal the extent of their surveillance.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    You can see a map of your location history at any time. It's heavily promoted in Maps.
    - mattnewton 7y ago
      Operative word is “you” there- I cannot look at your location, and the government can’t without a warrant either, what the OP is suggesting is way more invasive.
- johnpowell 7y ago
  Because that would shine a light on just how creepy this all is. We know they do it but the normal person might be a bit concerned if Google and Apple just announced "We track you everywhere and who you interact with." My sister finally came around to thinking Facebook was going to far so she switched to Instagram. We had a uncomfortable conversation last month when I broke the news to her.
  - xiphias2 7y ago
    It's not creepy as long as it's opt in. South Korea has an app, it could be done by anybody actually, but a known company would have more resources and branding power. The reality is that after Eric Schmidt went away, Google changed: it's trying to make money by focusing only on its products instead of focusing on its image by doing good to people (while building its products). Also Trump doesn't have the same relation with these companies as Obama had.
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    > We had a uncomfortable conversation last month when I broke the news to her. That both are owned by the same company?
- anoncareer0212 7y ago
  Because the public, and HN, has convinced itself that big tech has tools and capabilities it actually doesn't. I wish it did! It doesn't. EDIT: Before you downvote, for a simple example that fits within existing ideological battlelines, how would Apple do this?
- novok 7y ago
  You get national cell phone providers to do that, not tech companies.
  - casefields 7y ago
    Tracking Phones, Google is a Dragnet for the Police: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/13/us/google-location-tracking-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/13/us/google-loc... Mirror: http://archive.md/UV9px http://archive.md/UV9px
- 101404 7y ago
  Think again. Do we really want this to happen?
- Gigablah 7y ago
  Why are people asking this of Google and Apple and not of, you know, the major telcos who do have your location history (which you cannot opt out of) and are perfectly willing to sell it?
- jshevek 7y ago
  This would need to be opt-in, of course.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  > Seems fairly straightforward given their massive surveillance infrastructure. Because I doubt Google has the capability to do this, accurately, without false positives, without being a gross violation of privacy and without joining your location data to medical data, something which I'm fairly sure is illegal. Usual disclaimer applies, Google employee but not in Geo.
- chevman 7y ago
  Replying to myself here - evidently Israel is doing kind of what I was thinking about now: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/world/middleeast/israel-coronavirus-cellphone-tracking.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/world/middleeast/israel-c...
vikinghckr 7y ago
Found it strange that some parts of media decided to focus on the semantics of Google and Verily being different subsidiaries of Alphabet. This is an almost meaningless detail.
- drewbug 7y ago
  google pr team probably asked them to
- koolba 7y ago
  It’s par for the course for the media to flip on any minute detail of a Trump comment that they think will get a rise out of people.
  - anoncareer0212 7y ago
    If I were flippant, I'd say it appears par for the course for you to blame the media for the gov't lying. It's been well-reported that what was said in the conference was far from the truth. See my other comment for details.
  - gethoht 7y ago
    Or maybe the president should be relaying reliable information during a fucking pandemic. But yeah, fake news or something.
- anoncareer0212 7y ago
  Because what was said in the press conference is very, very, very, very, very, different from whats going on inside Google and Verily. Think: someone had an idea for a much, much, more limited in scope project for a very small area _that morning_. Not a nationwide exposure detector somehow built by 1700 engineers to be launched in the next week.
  - vikinghckr 7y ago
    I don't think the President ever mentioned it being next week. Also, see this from Google communication: https://twitter.com/Google_Comms/status/1238989460127338497 https://twitter.com/Google_Comms/status/1238989460127338497 This effort for a nationwide testing website is different from and in addition to what Verily was already doing at a smaller scale in Bay Area (although I imagine there will be lots of overlap and shared code etc.)
Animats 7y ago
Except that Google isn't doing that and said so.[1] [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-publishing-a-national-scale-coronavirus-site-anytime-soon-after-trump-announcement/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-p...
- Jommi 7y ago
  Can you point out to me the statement where Google denies working on the web tool?
  - tryptophan 7y ago
    A quick read of the article confirms that a google subsidiary IS MAKING A WEBSITE. Trump got all the details wrong as usual, but the main idea is true. That article just seems like its fishing for "trump bad" material.
    - rovr138 7y ago
      Not a subsidiary of Google, a subsidiary of Alphabet.
      - cavisne 7y ago
        Why pretend there’s a difference?
        zlsa 7y ago
        Because there is?
        allannienhuis 7y ago
        it's not a difference that matters in this context.
        7y ago
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newtoday 7y ago
So, I'm gonna have to go to Walmart to get tested? Wtf? I should be able to go to my local hospital right now, but there's no tests, and no one will be wearing PPE when I walk in there. Fuck this website. Exactly where, in each US state does one go for testing, right now? Any sources on this? Edit: I may sound rash, but what I read is Google: it's only in SF Bay, Trump: there will be a website, and drive through testing, which sounds like in Walmart parking lots or something. Yes, I'm freaking out. Can anyone out there answer my question above? Cause the local govt or healthcare facilities are unable to. Nor Trump, Walmart, or Google (even Google search)
- newtoday 7y ago
  A few downvotes on this so far, but no replies. No answers! I apologise for reaching out to the community. I love HN and respect the guidelines whole heartidly, but I was actually hoping for a reply.
  - 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
    Possibly because its common sense no country is really prepared for anything like that, doesn't matter the overall medical situation, and private companies who have infrastructure already help out if they can everywhere in the world right now.
    - newtoday 7y ago
      Thanks for the reply. Where do US citizens go get tested in each state?
      - wideasleep1 7y ago
        Personally, I would call my health provider, or my local hospital to inquire about their particular Covid testing protocol, seeming as some states are currently reporting very few confirmed cases, while others are already doing drive-through testing.
mitchtbaum 7y ago
I'm more focused on groceries at the moment.. https://www.walmart.com/ideas/discover-online-grocery/google-assistant-voice-ordering-for-walmart-grocery-pickup-delivery/354497 https://www.walmart.com/ideas/discover-online-grocery/google...
- D2187645 7y ago
  I wonder how many people are actually using these voice systems. In public, obviously zero. Ok google was convenient for a while while driving, but I havnt used it for months. Are these alexa/home gimmicks? Id have to see reviews, quality, stats, visualize a purchase which is not easy to do over a speaker. Turning of the light is already in the palm of your hand. I have a smaller 12 room house, light switches are right by the door of each room. Convenience might be to turn off all the lights in the house at once as I forget to turn off one or two most of the time. That would still cost a small fortune to replace all the bulbs.
  - monadic2 7y ago
    In my experience these voice assistants are wildly popular among older and less technically literate people. I have an aunt who has around a dozen alexa-enabled speakers, tvs, and tablets around the house and constantly talks to them—weather, news, turning on the radio and music, ordering things on amazon. She doesn’t appear to be bothered by having to change her behavior to suit the assistant, including occasionally ordering the wrong item on amazon (!) and simply saying “play (genre here)” rather than album oriented listening she normally does, which disturbed me a little bit. Other older people in my life have similar behavior, and on a related point I’ve gotten at least one assistant enabled device as a gift for each birthday and christmas for the last several years (I give them away, I already have too many damn electronics).
partingshots 7y ago
Most people don’t know what Alphabet is, or that Google and Verily are under it’s umbrella. I think it’s fine that they just used Google as a general place-in term for the article.
MilnerRoute 7y ago
For what it's worth, here's what CNN was reporting Friday night: Google will not be publishing a national-scale website for coronavirus testing anytime soon, contrary to claims made by President Donald Trump during a Friday news conference. Instead, a health-focused subsidiary owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet, intends to launch a small-scale website next week to begin to triage California-based patients. The website will aim to serve a broader population only “over time” — not “very quickly,” as Trump said. “What we’re building is a triage tool that will live on ProjectBaseline.com, and we plan to pilot it in California next week,” said Carolyn Wang, a spokesperson for the Alphabet subsidiary, Verily. “Our aspiration is for the triage tool to be used much more broadly over time. Initially, we’re linking it with several sites in the Bay Area to test and iterate, and collaborating closely with organizations like Quest Diagnostics and Labcorp who are also working on additional approaches to making testing more accessible and expedient in other areas.” https://www.siliconvalley.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-publishing-a-national-scale-coronavirus-site-anytime-soon-after-trump-announcement/ https://www.siliconvalley.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not...
- vikinghckr 7y ago
  This is older news. Latest news from today is Google is also working on a nationwide testing website.
  - wh1t3n01s3 7y ago
    Yes, after the speach, this is the point. Its trivial that google now is going to do it.
- Turing_Machine 7y ago
  And here's what Google Communications said three hours ago: "Google is partnering with the US Government in developing a nationwide website that includes information about COVID-19 symptoms, risk and testing information"
  - lovich 7y ago
    So, real question here. What if the president makes a claim about a companys actions at time N, that company then says that the claim is false at time N+1, and then the company about faces and says they will be doing what the president claimed at time N+2. Does this mean that the president lied or does the fact that the company changed their story later on make the president retroactively tell the truth?
mullingitover 7y ago
The timing of that press conference was really suspicious, and makes me think this is still all about the stock market and not a public health strategy. It was scheduled to start at 3:00 PM, but they stalled until 3:30 PM to actually start it. 30 minutes before the stock market closed for the week. The longer they talked, the more the market went up. The market loved them. Everyone's confident that they are delivering competent leadership. Time to buy! Or so it seemed. There were a huge number of short sellers in the stock market this week, and I think the white house knew that the short positions would be expiring at the end of the day on Friday. By bringing out this dog and pony show with captains of industry and making these big promises, I think they hoped to take credit for the inevitable upswing as short sellers brought up the market by closing their positions. By doing this, the administration is trying to look like they have the power to restore confidence in the stock market, when in reality the market is still badly battered, and they are absolutely culpable.
- taiwanboy 7y ago
  This is a global health crisis that happens to impact millions of workers who are now worried they might contract coronavirus or they might lose their jobs if they were in some of the more impacted industries. To be shorting and attacking the economy and businesses during this time (all businesses are interconnected, especially ones that provide food/energy/medical supplies) and be so distrustful of efforts to help ramp up testing and saving lifes, it’s just wrong. I happen to know many people who works in cruise industries and hospitality. These folks are worried sick right now. Those people are who you are shorting
  - bootlooped 7y ago
    I have taken a short position in the last couple weeks because I believe the market will go down, rather than up. I have given some thought to the effects of my actions, and I haven't yet been able to figure how anything I'm doing is harmful or unethical. Every transaction requires more than just my consent, somebody had to be on the other end of that deal thinking they were going to be the one making money, and they might be right.
  - 7y ago
defaultcompany 7y ago
What Is the point of increased testing now that it is so widespread in the community? The message needs to be social distancing even if you are not sick and if you are sick just assume it is coronavirus and self quarantine.
- robbiep 7y ago
  The point of increased testing is to identify cases, know the true denominator, impose isolation and allow for contact tracing, all to reduce R0
  - peteradio 7y ago
    Isn't it too late? We seem to have cases spread thoroughly across all states.
    - DavidSJ 7y ago
      If you can trace the cases faster than they spread, then it’s not too late.
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      No, it is not too late. The number of likely cases is still low enough to make contact tracing worthwhile to slow the spread.
      - peteradio 7y ago
        Ok, I was under the mistaken impression that we likely have a lot of cases, just under reported due to lack of tests. Perhaps we really only have ~5000, I had thought it was >100000.
        Maro 7y ago
        There's various factors that contribute to underreporting: - not enough testing / 80% of people have mild/no symptoms - cases reported today were contracted ~5 days ago, so there's always roughly a doubling in the pipeline Right now the official case number is ~3k for the US. Focusing too much on the number doesn't help (it will keep going up for a while), what matters is doing things which will stop the spread.
iamleppert 7y ago
Google, with their enormous warchest of money could be providing free test kits for everyone, not developing some chinch web site locator that could be built in an afternoon by a single developer. They have clearly seized upon the moment for PR.
- tootie 7y ago
  They maybe could. But so could the federal government and it's their actual job.
  - 76543210 7y ago
    If I didn't pay taxes my mortgage would be paid off, I could quit/work from home for a decade. How much abundance would we have without the federal government?
    - dwnvoted2hell 7y ago
      This is really more of a question of what kind of federal government we maintain. No one seems to dispute that having some form of federal government is good.
    - TSiege 7y ago
      If we didn't pay taxes we wouldn't have schools, roads, or the internet, and maybe even your mortgage (along with countless other things). So imagine where you life would be without it.
      - Proven 7y ago
        I don't have a poor (or biased) imagination. I imagine we'd much have better private schools, better and cheaper private toll roads, etc.
      - 76543210 7y ago
        None of those are paid by the federal government.
zaroth 7y ago
Google made the following statement on Twitter; Google is partnering with the US Government in developing a nationwide website that includes information about COVID-19 symptoms, risk and testing information. This is _in addition_ (emphasis added) to other measures we are taking, including: - A Google “home page promotion” to promote greater awareness of simple measures citizens can take to prevent the spread of the disease; - Work being done by our sister company Verily to launch a pilot website that will enable individuals to do a risk assessment and be scheduled for testing at sites in the Bay Area; - Promoting authoritative information through Google Search and YouTube; - Taking measures to protect users from misinformation, including phishing, conspiracy theories, malware and misinformation; - Rolling out free access to our advanced Hangouts Meet video-conferencing capabilities to all G Suite and G Suite for Education customers globally until 7/01/20; - Advancing health research and science; and financially supporting global relief efforts.” So one of two things happened. Either the media largely got the story wrong, claiming that Google was not actually working on nationwide website like Trump described, perhaps the media was confused by the multiple efforts underway at Google and misreported the Verily work the only thing that was going on. Alternatively, after Google sent out their internal memo asking for volunteers and got 1,700 replies (the 1,700 engineers that Trump mentioned) they still weren’t actually planning to build a nationwide site, but after Trump announced it on national news and praised Google for their work, he effectively forced them to volunteer to do the work. This seems less likely to me. However there is just a tremendous amount of arguing and misinformation in this thread claiming that Google is only doing the Verily thing, when in fact Google has come out and declared that they are in fact working on a nationwide site, at Google, in addition to the Verily work. https://mobile.twitter.com/Google_Comms/status/1238989460127338497 https://mobile.twitter.com/Google_Comms/status/1238989460127...
- axaxs 7y ago
  I'm betting on the former. As dangerous as it is to basically blanket call the media liars as Trump has done, there are just enough cases of it being correct to keep you scratching your head. Journalism of today is little more than Gawker-esque trash. I feel sorry for the remaining good journalists, having their industry muddied so much.
aazaa 7y ago
> “I want to thank Google. Google is helping to develop a website, it’s gonna be very quickly done, unlike websites of the past, to determine whether a test is warranted and to facilitate testing at a nearby convenient location,” Trump said. It's important to watch the press conference on this topic for context. The website is supposed the be the front line in the CDC's revamped testing effort. There are still far too few tests for everyone to get one, so they are being rationed. The website was to be the first stop made by a person who wanted to get tested. No website, no coordinated testing effort. All indications are that the president's announcement was premature and caught Alphabet, Verily, and Google flat-footed. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-publishing-a-national-scale-coronavirus-site-anytime-soon-after-trump-announcement/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-p... The president's bald-faced attempt to use this bogus announcement to elevate the stock market should be transparent to anyone paying attention. The presser was held just before the market close, just for this reason. This is very, very bad.
- jpster 7y ago
  This was my interpretation, too. If you watched the presser, it was clearly about a website into which you could enter your symptoms and then be directed to a testing site if needed. Nationwide. Verily’s first set of subsequent statements refuted this.
MilnerRoute 7y ago
The New York Times has a story delving into the different levels of commitment that's been reported for Google (in a story last updated on Sunday): "With Google executives eager to show they are working with the president, the company [Verily] is racing to meet the promise even as they acknowledge that the debut of the website will be far more limited than Mr. Trump has suggested..." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/us/politics/trump-google-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/us/politics/trump-google-... "Mr. Trump’s comments caught Google completely off guard and executives rushed to issue a statement on Friday afternoon to temper expectations, making it clear that the website is an effort led by Verily, not Google itself... Since then, Google executives have scrambled to coordinate with the White House in an effort to do as much as possible to make the president’s vision for the website a reality."
foxyv 7y ago
In the meantime the Walmart in my home town is firing people for getting sick because they can't afford to go to a doctor for a sick note.

221 points by ramblenode 7y ago

Why is Google (and for that matter Apple) not helping to track the prior movement of every coronavirus patient where possible to identify additional potentially exposed individuals? Seems fairly straightforward given their massive surveillance infrastructure. Anyone at Apple or Google actually going to pitch in here and offer meaningful help? So far, crickets.

swiley 7y ago
Because that would be an incredible violation of privacy and is probably illegal? I’m not even sure China does that.
- wolco 7y ago
  Korea has a map of all of your travels for the public to see.
  - paulsutter 7y ago
    Could you expand on that?
    - wolco 7y ago
      For those tested positive they trace/record your travels and put it online so everyone can see if they may have been in the area.
- whoisjuan 7y ago
  Of fucking course, China does that. Watch the videos on how they are dealing with it. There are several on YouTube. When you get in and out of a subway or a building or whatever you have to scan a QR code with WeChat. Otherwise, you're not allowed to proceed. They also take your temperature in all these places and if your temp is higher than normal they send you to a fever clinic, where they determine if you have the virus. If you do, you're isolated and your movement data gets flagged to track other potentially infected individuals.
  - Jommi 7y ago
    Can you link me one?
    - discordance 7y ago
      Location/association tracking and risk profiling is being done in China with Alipay Health Code[0]. Flash green at the checkpoint and you're allowed through. If your app shows yellow or red -> checks and quarantine. 0: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/07/how-global-health-crisis-turns-into-state-run-surveillance-opportunity https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/07/how-gl...
- davidw 7y ago
  I found this site about Singapore yesterday. This kind of detail would never fly in the US. But they do seem to have used it effectively to track the spread of the disease: https://co.vid19.sg/cases https://co.vid19.sg/cases
  - refurb 7y ago
    Holy crap! That's an impressive set of data. The first thing that came to my mind is HIPAA (I know it's US only). There are more than enough details for each patient to figure out who they are. They list employer, when they traveled, family members, etc.
    - fragmede 7y ago
      That level of detail is definitely enough to unmask an individual but if you wanted to protect the infected person's privacy (while massively violating others' in order to join the data sets), it seems like it would be possible to notify an individual that they were exposed, and not leak the infected person's personal details.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Oh they’re doing that. You can use AliPay, an omnipresent payments app to get a QR code based on your movements over the past days as tracked by your mobile. If it’s green you’re safe, yellow or red I think you need to be quarantined or at least monitored.
- usaar333 7y ago
  Both Singapore and South Korea publicly report such data. Names are anonymized, but it isn't that hard to dox them. I personally think it is bad that HIPAA doesn't have epidemic exemptions. Over you have widespread testing, having this info public allows: * Exposed individuals to submit to testing, learning more about who may be exposed = more data and find more exposure * Learn valuable patterns about disease transfer. E.g. Both Singapore and South Korea clusters suggest children aren't playing a significant role in transfer, but aren't enough data to know for sure. With more data, perhaps we would know they aren't and could avoid enormously expensive school closings. Honestly, I'm not sure what the end games of lockdown in Western societies are with a disease that can spread asymptomatically. You need these kind of X area was infected at y time announcements to get high enough testing coverage of potentialy infected people.
- freyir 7y ago
  Apparently Israel, Iran, and China are all using people’ cell phones to track infected people. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/03/14/coronavirus-spy-apps-israel-joins-iran-and-china-tracking-citizens-smartphones-to-fight-covid-19/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman...
plerpin 7y ago
I don't think the location history is very accurate. Either the polling interval is too low, or they use less power consuming location services, but Google fudges my history a good amount of time.
- Skunkleton 7y ago
  If you have google location history turned on you can see it in maps. Its pretty accurate. It couldn’t tell you for sure you were in with 5 feet of a known case, but it certainly would give a useful signal.
ivanfon 7y ago
It would probably be bad PR for them to reveal the extent of their surveillance.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  You can see a map of your location history at any time. It's heavily promoted in Maps.
  - mattnewton 7y ago
    Operative word is “you” there- I cannot look at your location, and the government can’t without a warrant either, what the OP is suggesting is way more invasive.
johnpowell 7y ago
Because that would shine a light on just how creepy this all is. We know they do it but the normal person might be a bit concerned if Google and Apple just announced "We track you everywhere and who you interact with." My sister finally came around to thinking Facebook was going to far so she switched to Instagram. We had a uncomfortable conversation last month when I broke the news to her.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  It's not creepy as long as it's opt in. South Korea has an app, it could be done by anybody actually, but a known company would have more resources and branding power. The reality is that after Eric Schmidt went away, Google changed: it's trying to make money by focusing only on its products instead of focusing on its image by doing good to people (while building its products). Also Trump doesn't have the same relation with these companies as Obama had.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  > We had a uncomfortable conversation last month when I broke the news to her. That both are owned by the same company?
anoncareer0212 7y ago
Because the public, and HN, has convinced itself that big tech has tools and capabilities it actually doesn't. I wish it did! It doesn't. EDIT: Before you downvote, for a simple example that fits within existing ideological battlelines, how would Apple do this?
novok 7y ago
You get national cell phone providers to do that, not tech companies.
- casefields 7y ago
  Tracking Phones, Google is a Dragnet for the Police: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/13/us/google-location-tracking-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/13/us/google-loc... Mirror: http://archive.md/UV9px http://archive.md/UV9px
101404 7y ago
Think again. Do we really want this to happen?
Gigablah 7y ago
Why are people asking this of Google and Apple and not of, you know, the major telcos who do have your location history (which you cannot opt out of) and are perfectly willing to sell it?
jshevek 7y ago
This would need to be opt-in, of course.
cameronbrown 7y ago
> Seems fairly straightforward given their massive surveillance infrastructure. Because I doubt Google has the capability to do this, accurately, without false positives, without being a gross violation of privacy and without joining your location data to medical data, something which I'm fairly sure is illegal. Usual disclaimer applies, Google employee but not in Geo.
chevman 7y ago
Replying to myself here - evidently Israel is doing kind of what I was thinking about now: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/world/middleeast/israel-coronavirus-cellphone-tracking.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/world/middleeast/israel-c...

vikinghckr 7y ago

Found it strange that some parts of media decided to focus on the semantics of Google and Verily being different subsidiaries of Alphabet. This is an almost meaningless detail.

drewbug 7y ago
google pr team probably asked them to
koolba 7y ago
It’s par for the course for the media to flip on any minute detail of a Trump comment that they think will get a rise out of people.
- anoncareer0212 7y ago
  If I were flippant, I'd say it appears par for the course for you to blame the media for the gov't lying. It's been well-reported that what was said in the conference was far from the truth. See my other comment for details.
- gethoht 7y ago
  Or maybe the president should be relaying reliable information during a fucking pandemic. But yeah, fake news or something.
anoncareer0212 7y ago
Because what was said in the press conference is very, very, very, very, very, different from whats going on inside Google and Verily. Think: someone had an idea for a much, much, more limited in scope project for a very small area _that morning_. Not a nationwide exposure detector somehow built by 1700 engineers to be launched in the next week.
- vikinghckr 7y ago
  I don't think the President ever mentioned it being next week. Also, see this from Google communication: https://twitter.com/Google_Comms/status/1238989460127338497 https://twitter.com/Google_Comms/status/1238989460127338497 This effort for a nationwide testing website is different from and in addition to what Verily was already doing at a smaller scale in Bay Area (although I imagine there will be lots of overlap and shared code etc.)

Animats 7y ago

Except that Google isn't doing that and said so.[1] [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-publishing-a-national-scale-coronavirus-site-anytime-soon-after-trump-announcement/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-p...

Jommi 7y ago
Can you point out to me the statement where Google denies working on the web tool?
- tryptophan 7y ago
  A quick read of the article confirms that a google subsidiary IS MAKING A WEBSITE. Trump got all the details wrong as usual, but the main idea is true. That article just seems like its fishing for "trump bad" material.
  - rovr138 7y ago
    Not a subsidiary of Google, a subsidiary of Alphabet.
    - cavisne 7y ago
      Why pretend there’s a difference?
      - zlsa 7y ago
        Because there is?
        allannienhuis 7y ago
        it's not a difference that matters in this context.
        7y ago

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newtoday 7y ago

So, I'm gonna have to go to Walmart to get tested? Wtf? I should be able to go to my local hospital right now, but there's no tests, and no one will be wearing PPE when I walk in there. Fuck this website. Exactly where, in each US state does one go for testing, right now? Any sources on this? Edit: I may sound rash, but what I read is Google: it's only in SF Bay, Trump: there will be a website, and drive through testing, which sounds like in Walmart parking lots or something. Yes, I'm freaking out. Can anyone out there answer my question above? Cause the local govt or healthcare facilities are unable to. Nor Trump, Walmart, or Google (even Google search)

newtoday 7y ago
A few downvotes on this so far, but no replies. No answers! I apologise for reaching out to the community. I love HN and respect the guidelines whole heartidly, but I was actually hoping for a reply.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
  Possibly because its common sense no country is really prepared for anything like that, doesn't matter the overall medical situation, and private companies who have infrastructure already help out if they can everywhere in the world right now.
  - newtoday 7y ago
    Thanks for the reply. Where do US citizens go get tested in each state?
    - wideasleep1 7y ago
      Personally, I would call my health provider, or my local hospital to inquire about their particular Covid testing protocol, seeming as some states are currently reporting very few confirmed cases, while others are already doing drive-through testing.

mitchtbaum 7y ago

I'm more focused on groceries at the moment.. https://www.walmart.com/ideas/discover-online-grocery/google-assistant-voice-ordering-for-walmart-grocery-pickup-delivery/354497 https://www.walmart.com/ideas/discover-online-grocery/google...

D2187645 7y ago
I wonder how many people are actually using these voice systems. In public, obviously zero. Ok google was convenient for a while while driving, but I havnt used it for months. Are these alexa/home gimmicks? Id have to see reviews, quality, stats, visualize a purchase which is not easy to do over a speaker. Turning of the light is already in the palm of your hand. I have a smaller 12 room house, light switches are right by the door of each room. Convenience might be to turn off all the lights in the house at once as I forget to turn off one or two most of the time. That would still cost a small fortune to replace all the bulbs.
- monadic2 7y ago
  In my experience these voice assistants are wildly popular among older and less technically literate people. I have an aunt who has around a dozen alexa-enabled speakers, tvs, and tablets around the house and constantly talks to them—weather, news, turning on the radio and music, ordering things on amazon. She doesn’t appear to be bothered by having to change her behavior to suit the assistant, including occasionally ordering the wrong item on amazon (!) and simply saying “play (genre here)” rather than album oriented listening she normally does, which disturbed me a little bit. Other older people in my life have similar behavior, and on a related point I’ve gotten at least one assistant enabled device as a gift for each birthday and christmas for the last several years (I give them away, I already have too many damn electronics).

partingshots 7y ago

Most people don’t know what Alphabet is, or that Google and Verily are under it’s umbrella. I think it’s fine that they just used Google as a general place-in term for the article.

MilnerRoute 7y ago

For what it's worth, here's what CNN was reporting Friday night: Google will not be publishing a national-scale website for coronavirus testing anytime soon, contrary to claims made by President Donald Trump during a Friday news conference. Instead, a health-focused subsidiary owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet, intends to launch a small-scale website next week to begin to triage California-based patients. The website will aim to serve a broader population only “over time” — not “very quickly,” as Trump said. “What we’re building is a triage tool that will live on ProjectBaseline.com, and we plan to pilot it in California next week,” said Carolyn Wang, a spokesperson for the Alphabet subsidiary, Verily. “Our aspiration is for the triage tool to be used much more broadly over time. Initially, we’re linking it with several sites in the Bay Area to test and iterate, and collaborating closely with organizations like Quest Diagnostics and Labcorp who are also working on additional approaches to making testing more accessible and expedient in other areas.” https://www.siliconvalley.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-publishing-a-national-scale-coronavirus-site-anytime-soon-after-trump-announcement/ https://www.siliconvalley.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not...

vikinghckr 7y ago
This is older news. Latest news from today is Google is also working on a nationwide testing website.
- wh1t3n01s3 7y ago
  Yes, after the speach, this is the point. Its trivial that google now is going to do it.
Turing_Machine 7y ago
And here's what Google Communications said three hours ago: "Google is partnering with the US Government in developing a nationwide website that includes information about COVID-19 symptoms, risk and testing information"
- lovich 7y ago
  So, real question here. What if the president makes a claim about a companys actions at time N, that company then says that the claim is false at time N+1, and then the company about faces and says they will be doing what the president claimed at time N+2. Does this mean that the president lied or does the fact that the company changed their story later on make the president retroactively tell the truth?

mullingitover 7y ago

The timing of that press conference was really suspicious, and makes me think this is still all about the stock market and not a public health strategy. It was scheduled to start at 3:00 PM, but they stalled until 3:30 PM to actually start it. 30 minutes before the stock market closed for the week. The longer they talked, the more the market went up. The market loved them. Everyone's confident that they are delivering competent leadership. Time to buy! Or so it seemed. There were a huge number of short sellers in the stock market this week, and I think the white house knew that the short positions would be expiring at the end of the day on Friday. By bringing out this dog and pony show with captains of industry and making these big promises, I think they hoped to take credit for the inevitable upswing as short sellers brought up the market by closing their positions. By doing this, the administration is trying to look like they have the power to restore confidence in the stock market, when in reality the market is still badly battered, and they are absolutely culpable.

taiwanboy 7y ago
This is a global health crisis that happens to impact millions of workers who are now worried they might contract coronavirus or they might lose their jobs if they were in some of the more impacted industries. To be shorting and attacking the economy and businesses during this time (all businesses are interconnected, especially ones that provide food/energy/medical supplies) and be so distrustful of efforts to help ramp up testing and saving lifes, it’s just wrong. I happen to know many people who works in cruise industries and hospitality. These folks are worried sick right now. Those people are who you are shorting
- bootlooped 7y ago
  I have taken a short position in the last couple weeks because I believe the market will go down, rather than up. I have given some thought to the effects of my actions, and I haven't yet been able to figure how anything I'm doing is harmful or unethical. Every transaction requires more than just my consent, somebody had to be on the other end of that deal thinking they were going to be the one making money, and they might be right.
- 7y ago

defaultcompany 7y ago

What Is the point of increased testing now that it is so widespread in the community? The message needs to be social distancing even if you are not sick and if you are sick just assume it is coronavirus and self quarantine.

robbiep 7y ago
The point of increased testing is to identify cases, know the true denominator, impose isolation and allow for contact tracing, all to reduce R0
- peteradio 7y ago
  Isn't it too late? We seem to have cases spread thoroughly across all states.
  - DavidSJ 7y ago
    If you can trace the cases faster than they spread, then it’s not too late.
  - koheripbal 7y ago
    No, it is not too late. The number of likely cases is still low enough to make contact tracing worthwhile to slow the spread.
    - peteradio 7y ago
      Ok, I was under the mistaken impression that we likely have a lot of cases, just under reported due to lack of tests. Perhaps we really only have ~5000, I had thought it was >100000.
      - Maro 7y ago
        There's various factors that contribute to underreporting: - not enough testing / 80% of people have mild/no symptoms - cases reported today were contracted ~5 days ago, so there's always roughly a doubling in the pipeline Right now the official case number is ~3k for the US. Focusing too much on the number doesn't help (it will keep going up for a while), what matters is doing things which will stop the spread.

iamleppert 7y ago

Google, with their enormous warchest of money could be providing free test kits for everyone, not developing some chinch web site locator that could be built in an afternoon by a single developer. They have clearly seized upon the moment for PR.

tootie 7y ago
They maybe could. But so could the federal government and it's their actual job.
- 76543210 7y ago
  If I didn't pay taxes my mortgage would be paid off, I could quit/work from home for a decade. How much abundance would we have without the federal government?
  - dwnvoted2hell 7y ago
    This is really more of a question of what kind of federal government we maintain. No one seems to dispute that having some form of federal government is good.
  - TSiege 7y ago
    If we didn't pay taxes we wouldn't have schools, roads, or the internet, and maybe even your mortgage (along with countless other things). So imagine where you life would be without it.
    - Proven 7y ago
      I don't have a poor (or biased) imagination. I imagine we'd much have better private schools, better and cheaper private toll roads, etc.
    - 76543210 7y ago
      None of those are paid by the federal government.

zaroth 7y ago

Google made the following statement on Twitter; Google is partnering with the US Government in developing a nationwide website that includes information about COVID-19 symptoms, risk and testing information. This is _in addition_ (emphasis added) to other measures we are taking, including: - A Google “home page promotion” to promote greater awareness of simple measures citizens can take to prevent the spread of the disease; - Work being done by our sister company Verily to launch a pilot website that will enable individuals to do a risk assessment and be scheduled for testing at sites in the Bay Area; - Promoting authoritative information through Google Search and YouTube; - Taking measures to protect users from misinformation, including phishing, conspiracy theories, malware and misinformation; - Rolling out free access to our advanced Hangouts Meet video-conferencing capabilities to all G Suite and G Suite for Education customers globally until 7/01/20; - Advancing health research and science; and financially supporting global relief efforts.” So one of two things happened. Either the media largely got the story wrong, claiming that Google was not actually working on nationwide website like Trump described, perhaps the media was confused by the multiple efforts underway at Google and misreported the Verily work the only thing that was going on. Alternatively, after Google sent out their internal memo asking for volunteers and got 1,700 replies (the 1,700 engineers that Trump mentioned) they still weren’t actually planning to build a nationwide site, but after Trump announced it on national news and praised Google for their work, he effectively forced them to volunteer to do the work. This seems less likely to me. However there is just a tremendous amount of arguing and misinformation in this thread claiming that Google is only doing the Verily thing, when in fact Google has come out and declared that they are in fact working on a nationwide site, at Google, in addition to the Verily work. https://mobile.twitter.com/Google_Comms/status/1238989460127338497 https://mobile.twitter.com/Google_Comms/status/1238989460127...

axaxs 7y ago
I'm betting on the former. As dangerous as it is to basically blanket call the media liars as Trump has done, there are just enough cases of it being correct to keep you scratching your head. Journalism of today is little more than Gawker-esque trash. I feel sorry for the remaining good journalists, having their industry muddied so much.

aazaa 7y ago

> “I want to thank Google. Google is helping to develop a website, it’s gonna be very quickly done, unlike websites of the past, to determine whether a test is warranted and to facilitate testing at a nearby convenient location,” Trump said. It's important to watch the press conference on this topic for context. The website is supposed the be the front line in the CDC's revamped testing effort. There are still far too few tests for everyone to get one, so they are being rationed. The website was to be the first stop made by a person who wanted to get tested. No website, no coordinated testing effort. All indications are that the president's announcement was premature and caught Alphabet, Verily, and Google flat-footed. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-publishing-a-national-scale-coronavirus-site-anytime-soon-after-trump-announcement/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/13/google-says-its-not-p... The president's bald-faced attempt to use this bogus announcement to elevate the stock market should be transparent to anyone paying attention. The presser was held just before the market close, just for this reason. This is very, very bad.

jpster 7y ago
This was my interpretation, too. If you watched the presser, it was clearly about a website into which you could enter your symptoms and then be directed to a testing site if needed. Nationwide. Verily’s first set of subsequent statements refuted this.

MilnerRoute 7y ago

The New York Times has a story delving into the different levels of commitment that's been reported for Google (in a story last updated on Sunday): "With Google executives eager to show they are working with the president, the company [Verily] is racing to meet the promise even as they acknowledge that the debut of the website will be far more limited than Mr. Trump has suggested..." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/us/politics/trump-google-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/us/politics/trump-google-... "Mr. Trump’s comments caught Google completely off guard and executives rushed to issue a statement on Friday afternoon to temper expectations, making it clear that the website is an effort led by Verily, not Google itself... Since then, Google executives have scrambled to coordinate with the White House in an effort to do as much as possible to make the president’s vision for the website a reality."

foxyv 7y ago

In the meantime the Walmart in my home town is firing people for getting sick because they can't afford to go to a doctor for a sick note.