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The situation in Stockholm, Sweden right now is: “You who have symptoms similar to coronavirus will not be tested in the future. This applies regardless of wh

The situation in Stockholm, Sweden right now is: “You who have symptoms similar to coronavirus will not be tested in the future. This applies regardless of whether you have been in the areas that were previously exposed to infection or had close contact with someone you know is ill in covid-19.” There are no test kits. Hospitals have run out of face masks. And it’s only just getting started here.

MaCorona 7y ago
One could built UV-Lightmasks. A transparent hose, add UV-LEDS to sterilize the flowing air. Dry the air at the start with silica gel. All that is needed then is a battery. The silica gel can be heated every once in a while to loose any moisture bound it and sterilize virus particles attached to it.
- lend000 7y ago
  I hate to see creative ideas being down-voted by the mob. While the length of UV exposure time required to kill viruses is probably impractical for a mask, certain UV bands could be instrumental for sanitizing public areas and hospitals. [0] [0] https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20180212/can-uv-light-be-used-to-kill-airborne-flu-virus- https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20180212/can-uv-ligh...
- steve_adams_86 7y ago
  You'd need a specific wavelength (265nm seems to be the standard) and they get pretty expensive. A UV LED from adafruit or sparkfun will probably not be sufficient. At a glance they sell LEDs around 400nm which from my cursory reading wouldn't be effective for what you're imagining. Not to say this would never work. Just that you would need special parts that are less common and more expensive by orders of magnitude. I've also read that sterilizing very fast moving air doesn't work well. It seems HVAC systems use extremely intense light order to be effective in these conditions, which a small LED (or a few) wouldn't accomplish.
- wwweston 7y ago
  It seems more productive to hit the room with far UVC, and there are already some products that do that, not sure about scale though.
- deepnotderp 7y ago
  It would probably be easier to deploy far-uvc or resonant microwave anti microbial systems.
- numpad0 7y ago
  Might as well make it a fully closed rebreather gear(note: CO2 removal is more important than adding oxygen)
ailideex 7y ago
If only Trump did not cut back on CDC funding... Thanks Trump!
- throw7337 7y ago
  If only CDC allowed "non official" tests.
  - malandrew 7y ago
    This is the real problem. Both the CDC and the FDA stopped everyone else from making progress on testing and we only started getting more tests when labs decided to disobey them. Cockups like this really should lay to rest the idea some people have that the federal government is a panacea for everything. This is very similar to one of Warren Buffett's quote about investing in companies: “I try to invest in businesses that are so wonderful that an idiot can run them. Because sooner or later, one will.” The truth is that federal government is far from being able to be wonderful when run by idiots. The best thing to do is try things out at the state level and if it proves to be so wonderful, only then do you try to scale it to two states, then three until it is so wonderful that it can be done at the federal level.
    - gameswithgo 7y ago
      The problem I have with this attitude, as it plays out in the United States, is that people accept this idea as true, and so then they de-fund things until they operate poorly, they vote with apathy so you end up with idiots in control, and basically the prophecy fulfills itself. All these things about idiots being in charge is, as Buffet said, true of companies as well. Nothing is a panacea.
      - malandrew 7y ago
        You can have many companies to choose from in the market and can choose to avoid the one run by idiots. You only have one government, so if it is full of idiots, you're pretty much screwed. I'm not every talking about government funding. I'm talking about government having too much power and control. That said, just throwing more money at the government gives zero guarantee that it will run any better. It usually will run just as poorly, but wasting more money than before.
avip 7y ago
So... what's the course of action for medical staff?
chvid 7y ago
Here in Denmark we have just shut our borders. You can no longer enter as Swede. We as nation put on extreme measures but there is no visibility. What is the true number of infected in Denmark? There is no sampling or systematic measurement going on. We probably know less than you guys in Sweden yet we choose the most extreme actions. We just had our PM go on national TV and call on all Danes to return to Denmark as she shut down the border.
- rasz 7y ago
  >We as nation put on extreme measures sarcasm? or heard on TV to calm the population? This is how extreme measures look like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXpHD9bjGe0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXpHD9bjGe0 Denmark is negligent, as is rest of Europe.
  - chvid 7y ago
    I don't know what Denmark is but I am worried. Three weeks ago our PM was busy playing petty political games with the opposition, today she is shutting down our borders preventing all foreigners entering the country.
- efxz 7y ago
  Here in Denmark we have just shut our borders. You can no longer enter as Swede. > You can enter Denmark, if You have work permission (even if You are Swede). Many people travel and work this way...
- adventured 7y ago
  Given the massive explosion in cases in Denmark, going from 514 to 1573 in two days, closing the borders is probably wise. For a country with just 5.9 million people, that's a recipe for collapsing your healthcare system if the cases continue to increase like that for much longer. There are not many medical systems on the planet that could handle that per capita case load increase in such a short amount of time (specifically the intensive care patients that will go with it in the coming days and weeks).
Nursie 7y ago
There are test kits in the UK, but the same policy applies. Why? Because it no longer matters, the containment effort for individual cases is now over. Now we move on to more mass actions to delay and slow the peak of the epidemic - anyone with symptoms to self isolate for a week, regardless of positive test.
- indecisive_user 7y ago
  >anyone with symptoms to self isolate for a week, regardless of positive test. In an ideal world we would already be doing this. I know that some people have to show up to work even if they're sick, but even at my job where we have unlimited sick leave, and are encouraged to use it, people still show up coughing and sniffling. I don't get it. If your employer encourages you to work from home when you're sick, and you're actually sick, please work from home! No one wants to catch your disease, whether it's Coronavirus or "just" the common cold.
  - cc81 7y ago
    This is a special case of course and I work for a company where we are told to work from home right now regardless of symptoms or not. However when it comes to the common cold that is something that will be going of for weeks and return several times for some people, just the light symptoms. No fever but some coughing and sneezing. For some job roles and in some companies with good culture it works great to work home but for a lot you cannot really be home for like 6 weeks every winter because you are missing out too much or are not effective enough.
    - indecisive_user 7y ago
      I disagree that the solution to "missing out too much" when you're sick is to go to work anyway and risk infecting co-workers. According to the CDC, the average adult gets the common cold 2-3 times per year with symptoms lasting 7-10 days[1]. So it's more like 2-4 weeks per year, but I would imagine that number would decrease if you didn't have people coming into work sick in the first place (again, I recognize not every job will allow for this). Hong Kong's flu season apparently ended early this year due to the self isolation of sick people[2]. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html [2] https://www.ft.com/content/ad7ae6b4-5eab-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4 https://www.ft.com/content/ad7ae6b4-5eab-11ea-b0ab-339c2307b...
nabla9 7y ago
Same in Finland, but there are exceptions. For example medical staff will be tested if they feel symptoms. Otherwise healthy people should not go to hospital if they feel symptoms. For most people it's just a flu. All events with more than 500 people are forbidden.
refurb 7y ago
In order to determine who to test, you need to base it on what your actions will be with a positive or negative result. If someone is showing mild Corona virus symptoms and can safely quarantine themselves, then there isn't a lot of value in testing. The result isn't going to change what you do. Where it's useful is controlling transmission. When you identify a patient, find out who they came in contact with and confirm whether or not they have it.
- rezendi 7y ago
  Your point is taken, but positive tests imply future immunity (based on what we currently know, for those who survive...) and that may become valuable information. For instance interactions with nursing homes, seniors' facilities, most of southwest Florida, etc., could be limited to people who had tested positive and recovered.
- wideasleep1 7y ago
  'Controlling transmission' is only useful before it becomes 'community-spread'. I'm unconvinced the testing is any more useful than stats in a future wiki article. At the end of the day, folks needing hospitalization/respiratory support will exist in spite of any given test result.
alkonaut 7y ago
Sweden did pretty well to scale from zero to ten test labs in just a couple of weeks though. I read thats more labs than can do the same in the US.
- rasz 7y ago
  Are you suggesting Sweden had zero labs with PCR machines couple of weeks ago? Is that official propaganda in media right now?
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    No, that’s in no way what I’m suggesting.
dharma1 7y ago
Same in the UK. You won't be tested any longer if you show symptoms. I called NHS 111 yesterday because my son has high fever and a cough. 2 hour wait time to speak to someone on the phone, which gives an indication of how many people are calling in with symptoms. They said the symptoms sound like coronavirus, but it's not being tested anymore (it was still being tested at drive-throughs 2 days ago) as the government has moved from "contain" phase to "delay" phase - advised to stay at home for 7 days and call back if it gets worse. I asked if his brother can continue going to school, given he is probably exposed - the advise was yes, as long as he isn't showing any symptoms. They have given up trying to contain this and it's difficult to see how you can trust reported case numbers going forward since testing has stopped.

MaCorona 7y ago

One could built UV-Lightmasks. A transparent hose, add UV-LEDS to sterilize the flowing air. Dry the air at the start with silica gel. All that is needed then is a battery. The silica gel can be heated every once in a while to loose any moisture bound it and sterilize virus particles attached to it.

lend000 7y ago
I hate to see creative ideas being down-voted by the mob. While the length of UV exposure time required to kill viruses is probably impractical for a mask, certain UV bands could be instrumental for sanitizing public areas and hospitals. [0] [0] https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20180212/can-uv-light-be-used-to-kill-airborne-flu-virus- https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20180212/can-uv-ligh...
steve_adams_86 7y ago
You'd need a specific wavelength (265nm seems to be the standard) and they get pretty expensive. A UV LED from adafruit or sparkfun will probably not be sufficient. At a glance they sell LEDs around 400nm which from my cursory reading wouldn't be effective for what you're imagining. Not to say this would never work. Just that you would need special parts that are less common and more expensive by orders of magnitude. I've also read that sterilizing very fast moving air doesn't work well. It seems HVAC systems use extremely intense light order to be effective in these conditions, which a small LED (or a few) wouldn't accomplish.
wwweston 7y ago
It seems more productive to hit the room with far UVC, and there are already some products that do that, not sure about scale though.
deepnotderp 7y ago
It would probably be easier to deploy far-uvc or resonant microwave anti microbial systems.
numpad0 7y ago
Might as well make it a fully closed rebreather gear(note: CO2 removal is more important than adding oxygen)

ailideex 7y ago

If only Trump did not cut back on CDC funding... Thanks Trump!

throw7337 7y ago
If only CDC allowed "non official" tests.
- malandrew 7y ago
  This is the real problem. Both the CDC and the FDA stopped everyone else from making progress on testing and we only started getting more tests when labs decided to disobey them. Cockups like this really should lay to rest the idea some people have that the federal government is a panacea for everything. This is very similar to one of Warren Buffett's quote about investing in companies: “I try to invest in businesses that are so wonderful that an idiot can run them. Because sooner or later, one will.” The truth is that federal government is far from being able to be wonderful when run by idiots. The best thing to do is try things out at the state level and if it proves to be so wonderful, only then do you try to scale it to two states, then three until it is so wonderful that it can be done at the federal level.
  - gameswithgo 7y ago
    The problem I have with this attitude, as it plays out in the United States, is that people accept this idea as true, and so then they de-fund things until they operate poorly, they vote with apathy so you end up with idiots in control, and basically the prophecy fulfills itself. All these things about idiots being in charge is, as Buffet said, true of companies as well. Nothing is a panacea.
    - malandrew 7y ago
      You can have many companies to choose from in the market and can choose to avoid the one run by idiots. You only have one government, so if it is full of idiots, you're pretty much screwed. I'm not every talking about government funding. I'm talking about government having too much power and control. That said, just throwing more money at the government gives zero guarantee that it will run any better. It usually will run just as poorly, but wasting more money than before.

avip 7y ago

So... what's the course of action for medical staff?

chvid 7y ago

Here in Denmark we have just shut our borders. You can no longer enter as Swede. We as nation put on extreme measures but there is no visibility. What is the true number of infected in Denmark? There is no sampling or systematic measurement going on. We probably know less than you guys in Sweden yet we choose the most extreme actions. We just had our PM go on national TV and call on all Danes to return to Denmark as she shut down the border.

rasz 7y ago
>We as nation put on extreme measures sarcasm? or heard on TV to calm the population? This is how extreme measures look like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXpHD9bjGe0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXpHD9bjGe0 Denmark is negligent, as is rest of Europe.
- chvid 7y ago
  I don't know what Denmark is but I am worried. Three weeks ago our PM was busy playing petty political games with the opposition, today she is shutting down our borders preventing all foreigners entering the country.
efxz 7y ago
Here in Denmark we have just shut our borders. You can no longer enter as Swede. > You can enter Denmark, if You have work permission (even if You are Swede). Many people travel and work this way...
adventured 7y ago
Given the massive explosion in cases in Denmark, going from 514 to 1573 in two days, closing the borders is probably wise. For a country with just 5.9 million people, that's a recipe for collapsing your healthcare system if the cases continue to increase like that for much longer. There are not many medical systems on the planet that could handle that per capita case load increase in such a short amount of time (specifically the intensive care patients that will go with it in the coming days and weeks).

Nursie 7y ago

There are test kits in the UK, but the same policy applies. Why? Because it no longer matters, the containment effort for individual cases is now over. Now we move on to more mass actions to delay and slow the peak of the epidemic - anyone with symptoms to self isolate for a week, regardless of positive test.

indecisive_user 7y ago
>anyone with symptoms to self isolate for a week, regardless of positive test. In an ideal world we would already be doing this. I know that some people have to show up to work even if they're sick, but even at my job where we have unlimited sick leave, and are encouraged to use it, people still show up coughing and sniffling. I don't get it. If your employer encourages you to work from home when you're sick, and you're actually sick, please work from home! No one wants to catch your disease, whether it's Coronavirus or "just" the common cold.
- cc81 7y ago
  This is a special case of course and I work for a company where we are told to work from home right now regardless of symptoms or not. However when it comes to the common cold that is something that will be going of for weeks and return several times for some people, just the light symptoms. No fever but some coughing and sneezing. For some job roles and in some companies with good culture it works great to work home but for a lot you cannot really be home for like 6 weeks every winter because you are missing out too much or are not effective enough.
  - indecisive_user 7y ago
    I disagree that the solution to "missing out too much" when you're sick is to go to work anyway and risk infecting co-workers. According to the CDC, the average adult gets the common cold 2-3 times per year with symptoms lasting 7-10 days[1]. So it's more like 2-4 weeks per year, but I would imagine that number would decrease if you didn't have people coming into work sick in the first place (again, I recognize not every job will allow for this). Hong Kong's flu season apparently ended early this year due to the self isolation of sick people[2]. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html [2] https://www.ft.com/content/ad7ae6b4-5eab-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4 https://www.ft.com/content/ad7ae6b4-5eab-11ea-b0ab-339c2307b...

nabla9 7y ago

Same in Finland, but there are exceptions. For example medical staff will be tested if they feel symptoms. Otherwise healthy people should not go to hospital if they feel symptoms. For most people it's just a flu. All events with more than 500 people are forbidden.

refurb 7y ago

In order to determine who to test, you need to base it on what your actions will be with a positive or negative result. If someone is showing mild Corona virus symptoms and can safely quarantine themselves, then there isn't a lot of value in testing. The result isn't going to change what you do. Where it's useful is controlling transmission. When you identify a patient, find out who they came in contact with and confirm whether or not they have it.

rezendi 7y ago
Your point is taken, but positive tests imply future immunity (based on what we currently know, for those who survive...) and that may become valuable information. For instance interactions with nursing homes, seniors' facilities, most of southwest Florida, etc., could be limited to people who had tested positive and recovered.
wideasleep1 7y ago
'Controlling transmission' is only useful before it becomes 'community-spread'. I'm unconvinced the testing is any more useful than stats in a future wiki article. At the end of the day, folks needing hospitalization/respiratory support will exist in spite of any given test result.

alkonaut 7y ago

Sweden did pretty well to scale from zero to ten test labs in just a couple of weeks though. I read thats more labs than can do the same in the US.

rasz 7y ago
Are you suggesting Sweden had zero labs with PCR machines couple of weeks ago? Is that official propaganda in media right now?
- alkonaut 7y ago
  No, that’s in no way what I’m suggesting.

dharma1 7y ago

Same in the UK. You won't be tested any longer if you show symptoms. I called NHS 111 yesterday because my son has high fever and a cough. 2 hour wait time to speak to someone on the phone, which gives an indication of how many people are calling in with symptoms. They said the symptoms sound like coronavirus, but it's not being tested anymore (it was still being tested at drive-throughs 2 days ago) as the government has moved from "contain" phase to "delay" phase - advised to stay at home for 7 days and call back if it gets worse. I asked if his brother can continue going to school, given he is probably exposed - the advise was yes, as long as he isn't showing any symptoms. They have given up trying to contain this and it's difficult to see how you can trust reported case numbers going forward since testing has stopped.