4 ms·

I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, what you’re posting is accurate. I had a former employee who worked as a software developer at a company that had uni

I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, what you’re posting is accurate. I had a former employee who worked as a software developer at a company that had union electricians. One day he got a new monitor, but it had to sit idle on his desk until an electrician could come and plug it into the wall. He had to occasionally adjust controls that were slotted (potentiometers). He had a little screwdriver that he kept in his pocket to make that easier. The electricians filed a grievance with the union because he was carrying electrician’s tools. I think there is some good in unions. I think there is also some bad.

Apocryphon 7y ago
I think these real-life anecdotes of the downside of unions are helpful data points, because they should be addressed if new unions are to form, whether in tech or elsewhere. The important thing to remember though is that bad experiences in of themselves are no reason to write off a category of organization, or to assume no improvement is possible. Where would our industry be if we just assumed riding taxis would always be a bad experience, or making payments?
- larrywright 7y ago
  This was a second hand story, but I knew someone years ago who was in a union (factory job). She loved the union, but what I noticed was that there was a hard line between “workers” and “management”, and the relationship was quite adversarial - more than I’ve seen anywhere I worked. During some negotiation thing, she was going to work with a pin on her uniform with her bosses name on it and a line through it.
  - fiter 7y ago
    Unions reinforce the concept of class conflict/struggle/warfare due to strict categorization. The laws seem to be set up in a way to encourage this "us versus them" mentality. [0] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter15-2.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-... "Managers and supervisors are also not protected by the NLRA, and cannot join unions or be part of the bargaining unit. These employees are considered to be part of a company’s management rather than its labor force."
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  I agree with what you're saying, but a major concern here is that new unions aren't forming. Glitch workers didn't form Glitch Workers' United. Instead they glued themselves into a large preexisting CWA local - just as Kickstarter before them attached to an OPEIU local - which means they'll be organizing in CWA-approved ways and their funds will go towards the CWA's preexisting social and political causes. Attaching yourself to existing powerhouses seems to be the model of modern American unionization, and it doesn't really allow for much experimentation.

Apocryphon 7y ago

I think these real-life anecdotes of the downside of unions are helpful data points, because they should be addressed if new unions are to form, whether in tech or elsewhere. The important thing to remember though is that bad experiences in of themselves are no reason to write off a category of organization, or to assume no improvement is possible. Where would our industry be if we just assumed riding taxis would always be a bad experience, or making payments?

larrywright 7y ago
This was a second hand story, but I knew someone years ago who was in a union (factory job). She loved the union, but what I noticed was that there was a hard line between “workers” and “management”, and the relationship was quite adversarial - more than I’ve seen anywhere I worked. During some negotiation thing, she was going to work with a pin on her uniform with her bosses name on it and a line through it.
- fiter 7y ago
  Unions reinforce the concept of class conflict/struggle/warfare due to strict categorization. The laws seem to be set up in a way to encourage this "us versus them" mentality. [0] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter15-2.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-... "Managers and supervisors are also not protected by the NLRA, and cannot join unions or be part of the bargaining unit. These employees are considered to be part of a company’s management rather than its labor force."
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
I agree with what you're saying, but a major concern here is that new unions aren't forming. Glitch workers didn't form Glitch Workers' United. Instead they glued themselves into a large preexisting CWA local - just as Kickstarter before them attached to an OPEIU local - which means they'll be organizing in CWA-approved ways and their funds will go towards the CWA's preexisting social and political causes. Attaching yourself to existing powerhouses seems to be the model of modern American unionization, and it doesn't really allow for much experimentation.