6 ms·

Before you write off 50 million people as "seriously disturbed", you should find out their motives. Not the cherry-picked mockery of them you see on social medi

Before you write off 50 million people as "seriously disturbed", you should find out their motives. Not the cherry-picked mockery of them you see on social media, but their more common motives. To make such a crude judgement as you did, you have to be ignoring some huge factor. If you conclude that factor is "they're stupid" or "they're evil", then you haven't found it. This applies generally to many controversial ideas. Being unable to see it from any other point of view doesn't make you right.

aeyes 7y ago
If you know their motives, would you please be kind enough to share them with us? As an outsider it is kind of hard to see through superficial news posts.
- Causality1 7y ago
  As a Democrat-voting libertarian with very Republican family, I think Jonathan Pie encapsulated it perfectly just a few days after the election: https://youtu.be/GLG9g7BcjKs https://youtu.be/GLG9g7BcjKs The truly sad part is that the Democratic party seemingly hasn't learned anything in the last four years, and are well on their way to dooming us to another four years of Trump.
  - D_Alex 7y ago
    So the key to beating Trump is apparently engaging in discussion with Trump supporters to find out what they really care about. And right here, in this thread, we are playing "guess my motive".
  - surge 7y ago
    Jimmy Dore, Tim Pool, and hundreds of others on the left have explained so well what was happening and is still happening. People who talk to people, not people who sit in high rises offices in major expensive cities and listen to themselves on Twitter all day which is a fraction, of a fraction of the population (majority of people don't even have time to tweet or care if they did, the loudest voices there are not representative of political thought for the majority of Americans). DNC has doubled down and moved further in the direction that lost them the last one. People have missed that Republicans have moved left or more center cause of Trump, gay marriage is something Trump doesn't care about at worst and supports at best, same thing on marijuana legalization. People who voted for Obama voted for Trump, the Christian right vote for Trump or don't vote at all because who else are they going to vote for. In my state, NAFTA fucked over a lot of people, people working factory jobs are now working two jobs, Clinton's brought that into reality, and she still advocated for that and other trade deals like TPP. Bernie might have had a chance then, because he stood against it, he's since said things like "white people don't know what its like to be poor", turning it into a race issue instead of a class issue, stopped talking about worker rights, he sure doesn't now, even without the DNC's help, people watched how the DNC played Bernie and rigged things against him, changed the rules and sacrificed their morals to let billionaire in and keep saying anyone they don't like, even on their own side, is a Russian asset, they know they're just as dishonest. They see rich white people at the top of the DNC, the people the DNC says we're supposed to hate, and recognize the sheer hypocrisy of it all. In the last 4 years they've sinked to Trump's level, and got down in the mud with him.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    The Democrats may well fail to rescue the nation from Trump, but the responsibility lies first with the man himself, his party of late, and his supporters who have no problem with the vile behavior and ignorance he proudly displays every day.
- KungFuJohnny 7y ago
  It's not hard to discover their motives if you really want to know. We aren't trying to keep it a secret. It's too bad I am 99.9% certain you just want to argue, so I won't waste my time.
- lopmotr 7y ago
  I don't but they're generally disadvantaged people or from places with a bleak economic future. So it's probably something to do with that. Maybe feeling left behind and looked down on by the rest of the country? Emotional reasons like that are very commonly reasons for people being unable to see the other's point of view. They don't articulate easily and don't translate into simple measures like money.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    How great must someone's economic prospects be before to earn before it's no longer OK to be homophobic, racist, xenophobic and voting and voting for someone cynically exploit their ignorance? How is their misery somehow a reason that makes them required to vote for not just a Republican no matter what but the worst possible one who is not even a conservative but looks our for absolutely no one's interests on any side except his own fame and wealth?
    - krapp 7y ago
      The real question is, why are they going to vote for him again despite his failure to deliver on any of his promises, or to display even a modicum of competence at his job? And when, after another four years, the wall still hasn't been built, globalism and automation still haven't been dismantled and the mines and domestic factories still haven't reopened, America's prestige still hasn't been restored, China still hasn't been broken, the Middle East still hasn't been pacified, and there still isn't a chicken in every pot and two cars in every garage, who will they turn to?
      - kortilla 7y ago
        This virus may change that. Until this point unemployment was quite low and the stock and housing markets were doing well. Nearly everything takes a backseat to the economy for American voters, despite what they say.
        krapp 7y ago
- RationalThinker 7y ago
  >If you know their motives, would you please be kind enough to share them with us? For me, it was the jobs. Trump campaigned on bringing jobs back, on creating more jobs, and on reopening factories and mines. I voted for him because he looks like he could deliver. And he did (record low unemployment rate).
ngcc_hk 7y ago
What are these motives especially the commoner, not the rich? Even the Christian I found years to understand ... and use final court and abortion as an excuse. What are motives ?
bsanr2 7y ago
Black American here. We know their motives. Still ain't pretty.
- KungFuJohnny 7y ago
  Black American Trump supporter here. Care to share what you think my motives are?
- lopmotr 7y ago
  What are they?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
TomMckenny 7y ago
They're not disturbed, they just want a strongman to force their will on the majority. Namely, a white evangelical centered America held against the majority will by the electoral college and gerrymandering or even a one party state and foreign assistance if necessary. Although, since today's Fox narrative is that the corona virus is a lie spread by democrats and the "ling media" to make Trump look bad, maybe "disturbed" is correct word.
wtallis 7y ago
> If you conclude that factor is "they're stupid" or "they're evil", then you haven't found it. You seem to be dismissing those explanations simply because you don't like them and you reject the idea that it could be true of so many people. But you aren't actually providing any evidence against these explanations. Simply exaggerating them to the point that you think they can be dismissed as unreal doesn't work. There's a mountain of evidence that large numbers of people can and will passively tolerate evil policies and continue to vote for their proponents on the basis of issues they care more about. There's plenty of evidence that large numbers of people can and will vote for candidates who are making empty promises to them. There's plenty of evidence that large numbers of people can and will reject sound information about reality when it conflicts with dearly held beliefs. Nobody (except perhaps you) is trying to say that Trump's success boils down entirely to those two factors that can be described as "evil" and "stupid" when taken to the extreme. But it's quite reasonable to conclude that those are indeed very important factors to his success and support.
- RationalThinker 7y ago
  I voted for Trump. Trump campaigned on jobs. And he delivered tremendously (record low unemployment rate). This is one of the reasons why many people will vote for him again in 2020.

aeyes 7y ago

If you know their motives, would you please be kind enough to share them with us? As an outsider it is kind of hard to see through superficial news posts.

Causality1 7y ago
As a Democrat-voting libertarian with very Republican family, I think Jonathan Pie encapsulated it perfectly just a few days after the election: https://youtu.be/GLG9g7BcjKs https://youtu.be/GLG9g7BcjKs The truly sad part is that the Democratic party seemingly hasn't learned anything in the last four years, and are well on their way to dooming us to another four years of Trump.
- D_Alex 7y ago
  So the key to beating Trump is apparently engaging in discussion with Trump supporters to find out what they really care about. And right here, in this thread, we are playing "guess my motive".
- surge 7y ago
  Jimmy Dore, Tim Pool, and hundreds of others on the left have explained so well what was happening and is still happening. People who talk to people, not people who sit in high rises offices in major expensive cities and listen to themselves on Twitter all day which is a fraction, of a fraction of the population (majority of people don't even have time to tweet or care if they did, the loudest voices there are not representative of political thought for the majority of Americans). DNC has doubled down and moved further in the direction that lost them the last one. People have missed that Republicans have moved left or more center cause of Trump, gay marriage is something Trump doesn't care about at worst and supports at best, same thing on marijuana legalization. People who voted for Obama voted for Trump, the Christian right vote for Trump or don't vote at all because who else are they going to vote for. In my state, NAFTA fucked over a lot of people, people working factory jobs are now working two jobs, Clinton's brought that into reality, and she still advocated for that and other trade deals like TPP. Bernie might have had a chance then, because he stood against it, he's since said things like "white people don't know what its like to be poor", turning it into a race issue instead of a class issue, stopped talking about worker rights, he sure doesn't now, even without the DNC's help, people watched how the DNC played Bernie and rigged things against him, changed the rules and sacrificed their morals to let billionaire in and keep saying anyone they don't like, even on their own side, is a Russian asset, they know they're just as dishonest. They see rich white people at the top of the DNC, the people the DNC says we're supposed to hate, and recognize the sheer hypocrisy of it all. In the last 4 years they've sinked to Trump's level, and got down in the mud with him.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  The Democrats may well fail to rescue the nation from Trump, but the responsibility lies first with the man himself, his party of late, and his supporters who have no problem with the vile behavior and ignorance he proudly displays every day.
KungFuJohnny 7y ago
It's not hard to discover their motives if you really want to know. We aren't trying to keep it a secret. It's too bad I am 99.9% certain you just want to argue, so I won't waste my time.
lopmotr 7y ago
I don't but they're generally disadvantaged people or from places with a bleak economic future. So it's probably something to do with that. Maybe feeling left behind and looked down on by the rest of the country? Emotional reasons like that are very commonly reasons for people being unable to see the other's point of view. They don't articulate easily and don't translate into simple measures like money.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  How great must someone's economic prospects be before to earn before it's no longer OK to be homophobic, racist, xenophobic and voting and voting for someone cynically exploit their ignorance? How is their misery somehow a reason that makes them required to vote for not just a Republican no matter what but the worst possible one who is not even a conservative but looks our for absolutely no one's interests on any side except his own fame and wealth?
  - krapp 7y ago
    The real question is, why are they going to vote for him again despite his failure to deliver on any of his promises, or to display even a modicum of competence at his job? And when, after another four years, the wall still hasn't been built, globalism and automation still haven't been dismantled and the mines and domestic factories still haven't reopened, America's prestige still hasn't been restored, China still hasn't been broken, the Middle East still hasn't been pacified, and there still isn't a chicken in every pot and two cars in every garage, who will they turn to?
    - kortilla 7y ago
      This virus may change that. Until this point unemployment was quite low and the stock and housing markets were doing well. Nearly everything takes a backseat to the economy for American voters, despite what they say.
      - krapp 7y ago
RationalThinker 7y ago
>If you know their motives, would you please be kind enough to share them with us? For me, it was the jobs. Trump campaigned on bringing jobs back, on creating more jobs, and on reopening factories and mines. I voted for him because he looks like he could deliver. And he did (record low unemployment rate).

ngcc_hk 7y ago

What are these motives especially the commoner, not the rich? Even the Christian I found years to understand ... and use final court and abortion as an excuse. What are motives ?

bsanr2 7y ago

Black American here. We know their motives. Still ain't pretty.

KungFuJohnny 7y ago
Black American Trump supporter here. Care to share what you think my motives are?
lopmotr 7y ago
What are they?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

TomMckenny 7y ago

They're not disturbed, they just want a strongman to force their will on the majority. Namely, a white evangelical centered America held against the majority will by the electoral college and gerrymandering or even a one party state and foreign assistance if necessary. Although, since today's Fox narrative is that the corona virus is a lie spread by democrats and the "ling media" to make Trump look bad, maybe "disturbed" is correct word.

wtallis 7y ago

> If you conclude that factor is "they're stupid" or "they're evil", then you haven't found it. You seem to be dismissing those explanations simply because you don't like them and you reject the idea that it could be true of so many people. But you aren't actually providing any evidence against these explanations. Simply exaggerating them to the point that you think they can be dismissed as unreal doesn't work. There's a mountain of evidence that large numbers of people can and will passively tolerate evil policies and continue to vote for their proponents on the basis of issues they care more about. There's plenty of evidence that large numbers of people can and will vote for candidates who are making empty promises to them. There's plenty of evidence that large numbers of people can and will reject sound information about reality when it conflicts with dearly held beliefs. Nobody (except perhaps you) is trying to say that Trump's success boils down entirely to those two factors that can be described as "evil" and "stupid" when taken to the extreme. But it's quite reasonable to conclude that those are indeed very important factors to his success and support.

RationalThinker 7y ago
I voted for Trump. Trump campaigned on jobs. And he delivered tremendously (record low unemployment rate). This is one of the reasons why many people will vote for him again in 2020.