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Soviet radar hidden in Chernobyl’s shadow [video]
- trevyn 7y agoTLDW: A 1970s over-the-horizon radar for ICBMs that apparently didn’t work very well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar
- rrmoelker 7y agoI couldn't quite figure out from the video if it was an early launch detection system and/or a signal jammer. Cause the video mentions both. A cursory glance at the Wikipedia article also didn't clear it up. Does anyone know?
- reportgunner 7y agoFrom reading the wikipedia article it seems like it was primarily a launch detection system that had a side effect of jamming signal.
- sciurus 7y agoIt was a detection system, but it operated on frequencies that already in use by shortwave broadcast stations (much more prevalent then than now), amateur radio operators, etc and interfered with them. You can get more details on how it and similar systems work at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar
- saber6 7y agoFun fact: The radar in PUBG was based off the Duga radar.
- timeattack 7y agoWhenever I read, see or, especially, visit such enormous abandoned man-made objects I have very specific feeling which is hard to put in words. Some wild yet soothing blend of awe and fear. Does anyone else experience it? Is there a name for such feeling?
- t3rabytes 7y agoSame here, I also have the same feeling in very large rooms when I’m not on the floor — say an engine room in a ship.
- jmnicolas 7y agoI once watched a old black and white video on YouTube of an Ekranoplan (ground-effect vehicle) flying / gliding on the sea. I was terrified the whole time and I'm still terrified if I look at it again. I have no idea why (I can watch any military hardware video without any fear).
- paulmd 7y agoI mean, it is conceptually kind of a nerve-wracking thing to fly. It's a plane that is constantly two seconds from nailing the ground/sea and crashing. And as you're ripping along at 300 mph you have to constantly scan for any ships that might be in your way, because you can't just fly over them. One of the noted problems with it was pilot fatigue, for exactly this reason.
- nradov 7y agoGround effect aircraft are usually designed with enough extra power available that they can temporarily climb to higher altitudes to avoid surface obstacles or high waves, at the cost of increased fuel consumption.
- nitrogen 7y agoVideos I've seen of the sound of an A-10 firing its main gun can inspire similar feelings, particularly when you hear the supersonic crack of the individual rounds before the rumble of the gun itself.
- ericwood 7y agoThis definitely resonates with me. These sorts of constructions have been an obsession of mine for as long as I can remember. There's a very specific feeling they conjure that I've never been able to put into words either, and I'm guessing it's similar to what you're feeling! There's definitely a morbid curiosity aspect to it which is why seemingly sinister things like this (or my fave, 33 Thomas St) have even more appeal.
- teeray 7y agoIt was apparently informally known as “the woodpecker” because of the sound of the interference it would make. It’s interesting to read the amateur radio community’s response to it at the time: https://www.qsl.net/n1irz/woodpeck.html https://www.qsl.net/n1irz/woodpeck.html > “If you want to screw up a radar signal, all you have to do is send a return signal on its frequency which blocks out the echos. Hams, from the earliest woodpecker days, have been driving the monster off their bands by getting on the frequency and sending properly spaced dots back. The screen somewhere in Russia blanks out and the operators utter some Russian oaths and change the frequency to get rid of the interference."
- xxpor 7y agoThe opposite behavior is kind of scary. What prevents someone from faking a "missile echo" response?
- paulmd 7y agowikipedia says the transmitter used a pseudorandom sequence, so unless you could copy the PRNG output then you couldn't predict the sequence and generate appropriate returns. Amateurs would just jam the whole frequency so the radar couldn't hear any returns at all.
- Enginerrrd 7y agoSeems like it'd still be susceptible to playback attacks with a slight random delay.
- blattimwind 7y agoYes within d/c. So a priori you already need to be rather very close to the position of the object you want to fake appearing. At that point you might just as well put an object there.
- paulmd 7y ago
- vsnf 7y agoI've visited this radar installation - of course, as another poster pointed out it was an OTH missile detection system. But a fun conspiracy theory floated by my guide was that this installation was intended as a Soviet weather control experiment. The evidence for that, such as it can be considered, was that allegedly there were supposed to be 12 reactors at Chernobyl, not just the famously exploded Reactor 4, which would have been an immense amount of energy production capability for one single location. Additionally, the nearby Pripyat was inhabited by the brightest of the bright, most elite of the Soviet population in an already highly secret portion of the Soviet Union. Who better to attempt that sort of endeavor? Plus, what powerful government doesn't wish it could control the weather? Whether or not it's true, it clearly didn't work. But it sure is fun to think about. edit: typos Also, while I was there I picked up some forgotten artifacts in the form of old computer operations manuals, including one for the Russian ES EVM, which was a copy of the System/360. I scanned all the pages, maybe it would be interesting some people here: https://chernobylbooks.netlify.com/ https://chernobylbooks.netlify.com/
- dylan604 7y agoThe US had HAARP[0] which was researching use of high frequency radio waves in the upper atmosphere which was also surrounded by conspiracy theories. One theory was that HAARP was responsible for the massive flooding in the early 90s of the Mississippi river due to the Jet Stream to severely change course due to the effects of HAARP. Another was that HAARP opened up a hole in the atmosphere which allowed a small portion of Alaska to receive a much more intense dosing of solar radiation. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program#Conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_...
- creeble 7y agoFor non-hams, "high frequncy" here refers to the "HF" band of roughly 3-30MHz. Or, as anyone else might call it, low frequency. Afaik, it didn't work at whatever it was trying to do, which IIIRC had something to do with submarines.
- 7y ago
- kratom_sandwich 7y agoFor a longer and more detailed treatment of the Duga antenna and its connection to Cherbobyl, I can recommend the documentary "The Russian Woodpecker": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Russian_Woodpecker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Russian_Woodpecker
- jgrahamc 7y agoI visited the Duga installation a couple of years ago (along with Chernobyl) and it really was utterly inspiring. I highly recommend it for nerds and non-nerds alike.
- tastroder 7y agoHuh, that looked familiar, YouTuber shiey climbed around on that thing a few months back: https://youtu.be/jGPjj4B_jEk?t=7755 https://youtu.be/jGPjj4B_jEk?t=7755
- spongeb00b 7y agoHis channel is well worth watching for anyone who dreams of being so fearless to sneak into factories and climb unbelievably high structures.
- ripley12 7y agoHis footage from Duga is really amazing, he managed to shoot it with incredible lighting from the sunrise. I'd strongly recommend checking this out even if urbex isn't normally your thing.
- LargoLasskhyfv 7y agoThey VFXed that into Allegiant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYyeROGcsIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYyeROGcsIA from the Divergent Series as "The Wall that Encircles Chicago". I mean the thing itself, not the footage the youtuber did. Btw. when he is hoboing on some trains, his head is sometimes very near to the overhead wires. I wonder if he ever heard of "Arcing"?
- CalChris 7y agoThe Stanford Dish, built in 1961, was used to detect these and other sorts of signals. Rather than over the horizon it was via earth moon earth bounce. https://medium.com/dish/tech-history-the-story-behind-stanfords-satellite-dish-hiking-trail-in-palo-alto-fc44745be409 https://medium.com/dish/tech-history-the-story-behind-stanfo...
- stevehawk 7y agoThe secret radar? The massive, seen from the air, heard on the radio, reproduced in one of the top selling games of the last few years (PUBG) radar is a secret? I can't wait to hear about the secret arch built in St Louis for the World Fair.
- finleymedia 7y agoPictures of the radar array show up on Reddit r/AbandonedPorn all of the time. People have climbed on top of it for pictures.
- KaiserPro 7y agonot when it was turned on though...
- wglb 7y agoThe signals were not secret, the physical structure was not necessarily viewed in the west until satellites took pictures. Certainly the mission in all its details and expectations are still classified and therefore secret.
- rospaya 7y agoSo secret that I booked a trip there a year ago and visited. And knew about it beforehand.
- vilhelm_s 7y agoApparently it never worked properly (from https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09636412.2017.1331639 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09636412.2017.13...): > Meanwhile, the top Soviet EW warning commanders called OTH radar “virtually useless.”[88] Danilevich agreed, arguing that LUA was impossible before the development of satellites: “there were only above-the-horizon systems; there were no over-the-horizon systems ... These systems were not sufficiently reliable. They did not allow the reliable detection of launches. The only way to reliably determine the beginning of an attack is through human intelligence, but it is dubious that such data could be obtained.”[89] Apparently OTH radar operators would consult public reports about planned NASA space launches and then claim that they had tracked a launch on the appropriate day. But the ruse became obvious when weather delayed a launch.[90] [88] Fischer, “The Soviet–American War Scare of the 1980s,” 502. [89] Hines interview with Col. Gen. Danilevich, 24 September 1992, in Hines, Mishulovich, and Shull, “Soviet Intentions 1965–1985, Vol. II”, 41. [90] Bruce G. Blair, The Logic of Accidental Nuclear War (Washington, DC: Brookings Institution Press, 1993), 205.
- mechhacker 7y agoI was there a few months back. If you go on the day-long Chernobyl tour from Kiev, they will take you into Pripyat as well as the Duga radar installation. It's a very interesting trip. I took some photos inside the radar control building. They had a lot of soviet era electronics laying around, as well as pictures of expected U.S. missiles that they were meant to track. https://thesolidconcept.com/a-trip-to-chernobyl/ https://thesolidconcept.com/a-trip-to-chernobyl/
- folli 7y agoI really enjoyed the read, thanks!
- mechhacker 7y agoGlad you enjoyed it!
- greatartiste 7y agoThe Russians have just started transmitting from a new OTHR called Konteyner .. https://planesandstuff.wordpress.com/2020/02/25/russian-othr-29b6-konteyner-analysis/ https://planesandstuff.wordpress.com/2020/02/25/russian-othr... also .. https://planesandstuff.wordpress.com/2020/03/06/konteyner-follow-up/ https://planesandstuff.wordpress.com/2020/03/06/konteyner-fo... The HF bands are full of OTHRs at the moment. There are Russian ones , Iranian ones and a British one from Cyprus among many others.
- gumby 7y agoWarning: video
- dboreham 7y agoI've visited, including inside, the US equivalent : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FPQ-16_PARCS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FPQ-16_PARCS This was before 9/11. Probably these are no longer allowed, but they would have an annual "open house", and my wife is from that area (which is sparsely populated) so we'd pop in. Inside I saw a 16-CPU parallel processing system developed by Western Electric specifically for this project in the late 60's (still operating).
- walrus01 7y agoPeople have flown FPV quadcopters around it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhJpdCZNSDc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhJpdCZNSDc
- jve 7y agoThar guy takes out his phone and says something along the lines that the phone is way better than that, believe me. Really? Is phone hardware capable of transmitting that far? I have hard time believing that. Processing power? Sure.
- DonHopkins 7y agoOf course it can transmit that far, it just takes a few hops. What he was actually comparing the phone with was the so-called "huge computer" that processed all the data wires coming from the radar receiver sensors, not the radar transmitter itself. 4:25> Each radio receiver has lots of sensors. Each sensor has to be supplied with data wires and power. All data wires were going to the main control centre. It looked like a huge (let's say) computer. But believe me, this thing (waves phone) is much better than anything here. (laughs)
- ohiovr 7y agoIt became the brain scorcher in the S.T.A.L.K.E.R shadow of chernobyl games.
- DonHopkins 7y agoWow, the Pokemon Go graffiti at 4:58 is hilarious!