9 ms·

>But if there were ever a time for us not to be partisan and tribal, it's now. You say that like both parties are trying to deny testing and are refusing to pr

by tw04 7y ago

>But if there were ever a time for us not to be partisan and tribal, it's now. You say that like both parties are trying to deny testing and are refusing to provide the social safety net for workers to stay home when they're sick. This is very much not a "both sides" discussion. This is: the GOP needs to stop trying to pretend like nothing is wrong and actually DO SOMETHING to prevent this from becoming an even bigger disaster. Ahh, the old cowardly downvote without comment because you don't like the reality of the situation that there is one party that's very much to blame. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/487258-senate-republicans-poised-to-reject-house-coronavirus-relief-bill https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/487258-senate-republican...

altec3 7y ago
I think what gdubs was trying to get across is that sure, there are problems, people to blame, etc. but now is not the time. We have to get our act together and handle the situation. We can't have petty fighting betweeen parties. Now is the time to unite and act. We can fight, argue and point fingers once this is all behind us.
- aaomidi 7y ago
  They're literally blocking COVID emergency budget bills getting passed in the Senate This is time to fall in line or be thrown out of your job.
  - breakyerself 7y ago
    Why don't Republicans need to fall in line when Democrats pass much needed relief for coronavirus?
    - wonderwonder 7y ago
      That's who he is talking about, the republicans are blocking it.
  - fragmede 7y ago
    At least one bill is being blocked because it doesn't have language prohibiting the money to be used for abortion. The money would be used to fight Covid-19 pandemic, but for some reason, it's critical that the money in no way go to abortion. https://www.salon.com/2020/03/12/gop-delays-coronavirus-bill-in-part-over-complaints-that-it-doesnt-bar-federal-funds-for-abortion/ https://www.salon.com/2020/03/12/gop-delays-coronavirus-bill...
- standardUser 7y ago
  Now is the time for leadership. If leadership is lacking, we don't star singing Kumbaya and offering platitudes about "unity" in the face of malpractice, we loudly and firmly demand better leadership.
- wonderwonder 7y ago
  You are right. Unfortunately we need good strong leadership focused on protecting not just numbers on a candlestick chart but actual real people. Our current president has proven completely incapable of that and should immediately step aside. I am no fan of Pence but he at least likely capable of listening to experts and following their recommendations. The markets reaction to last night Oval office speech is reason enough to prove the nation has lost confidence in its current occupant.
  - andrekandre 7y ago
    i don’t usually post on political topics but... i’m not so sure about pence... [0] if we are lucky, hopefully he’s learned from that but i’m not holding my breath [0] https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pences-pray-it-plan-combat-indiana-hiv-outbreak-resurfaces-after-trump-taps-vp-lead-1489344 https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pences-pray-it-plan-combat-ind...
- yc-kraln 7y ago
  You act like we aren't capable of doing two things at once. Sorry, I am perfectly capable of acting while still pointing my finger at the people who are actively trying to make this worse. Maybe you can afford to play kum-bay-yah but perhaps it's not your life or the lives of your loved ones which have been doomed by this ineptitude. Civility is poison to irrational discourse.
- rndmize 7y ago
  The fighting between the parties hasn't been petty for years now. It's frequently a disagreement on basic factual information. Solving problems is something that can be done when everyone understands and agrees on what the problem actually is. I don't expect to be able to craft useful public health policy in discussion with an antivaxxer or space exploration policy with a flat earther – the idea of "unite and act" is be absurd when dealing with people who lack the ability to admit they can be wrong/consider multiple perspectives/think critically. And yet that's basically where we stand today politically. > Fact-checkers and scientists have scrambled to correct the misinformation coming out of the White House. (No, the virus has not been “contained” in America; no, testing is not available to anybody who wants it; no, people shouldn’t go to work if they’re sick.) But Trump’s message seems to have resonated with his base: A Quinnipiac University poll released this week found that just 35 percent of Republicans are concerned about the virus, compared with 68 percent of Democrats. [1] If the other side doesn't even agree with you this is a problem that needs serious attention to be solved, how are we going to get our act together? [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/trump-coronavirus-threat/607825/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/trump-c...
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > I think what gdubs was trying to get across is that sure, there are problems, people to blame, etc. but now is not the time. Now is absolutely the time, because: > We have to get our act together and handle the situation. And identifying the problems in the approach to date is an essential element of course correction. > Now is the time to unite and act. No, now is the time to identify the problems in our actions to date and course correct to appropriate actions. “Unite and act” is pointless or counterproductive without that.
tic_tac 7y ago
You can't just conjure the necessary tests up from nothing. Japan has also had problems with testing. No one is trying to "deny testing". It is a work in progress and is indeed ramping up.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  The FDA had a ban on tests outside of the CDC's tiny supply for a long time. That's whats being referred to by "denying testing." Not a political issue so much as a typical bureaucratic slowdown with very real consequences.
  - tic_tac 7y ago
    The comment I replied to was saying that the lack of testing was indeed a political issue with one side at fault.
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      It is insofar as the FDA and CDC are controlled by the president and both agencies could make emergency exceptions. On a phone call the day after the C.D.C. and F.D.A. had told Dr. Chu to stop, officials relented, but only partially, the researchers recalled. They would allow the study’s laboratories to test cases and report the results only in future samples. They would need to use a new consent form that explicitly mentioned that results of the coronavirus tests might be shared with the local health department. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-de...
  - m0zg 7y ago
    Could be a political issue as well. The deep state within CDC and FDA is likely sabotaging the first response. I see no other explanation for why, 2 months after things started blowing up in China, we _still_ don't have widespread testing in what I thought was the most technologically advanced country in the world, and moreover, are _refusing to import the working solution_. Heads should most definitely roll for this after things subside.
allovernow 7y ago
>Ahh, the old cowardly downvote without comment because you don't like the reality of the situation that there is one party that's very much to blame People are probably downvoting silently this time because explaining to you that you're obliviously consuming propaganda is one step deeper into flamewar territory which is unpopular on HN (and against the rules). Case in point? Media reports that bill forcing employers to provide sick leave failed to pass because of evil Republicans. What you won't see on the news is the nuance that such a bill can't be passed without possibly bankrupting small businesses. That's just one example. The administration shut down the border early on and was enthusiastically rewarded with accusations of sinophobia. All politicians play this game. The US government institution has been rotting for decades, and yes, it really is a "both sides" issue when one side is so blinded by hatred that they refuse to acknowledge positive decisions. There are literally almost as many people on the Republican side blindly dismissing everything Democrats do. Remember, Trump only lost the popular vote by 3%. Now is not the time for partisan idiocy.
- tw04 7y ago
  >Case in point? Media reports that bill forcing employers to provide sick leave failed to pass because of evil Republicans. What you won't see on the news is the nuance that such a bill can't be passed without possibly bankrupting small businesses. The bill literally includes the funding to pay for sick leave. That's why it's a FUNDING bill - I think you're confused about who is being mislead by propaganda. Meanwhile, the GOP is trying to insert language about abortion into the bill because...?
  - malandrew 7y ago
    The full text has not yet been published on congress.gov to verify who is paying and I can't find the full text elsewhere. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3415/all-info?r=3&s=5 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/341... https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6150?s=3&r=64 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6150... However, the press release from Murray and DeLauro makes it sound like businesses are paying: https://www.help.senate.gov/ranking/newsroom/press/coronavirus-murray-delauro-introduce-new-emergency-paid-sick-days-legislation https://www.help.senate.gov/ranking/newsroom/press/coronavir... If you have a primary source that shows that government, not businesses, are paying for the costs of sick leave as it relates to S.3415 and HR.6150, please share it. I also can't find a single search result that includes the term abortion as it relates to either S.3415 or HR.6150.
ThomPete 7y ago
If you actually listen to the hearing today you will realize that this is a systemic issue with the US healthcare system not something any politician can do much about. The US is not built that way the CDC can't just fix it. That's the power and weakness of our system compared to other countries. Here the leaders of CDC explains the problem in a nutshell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxC9Q99il1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxC9Q99il1Q
paulmd 7y ago
Also: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486559-trump-fake-news-media-democrats-working-to-inflame-the-coronavirus https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486559-trump-fak... https://theweek.com/speedreads/901405/seattle-lab-uncovered-washingtons-coronavirus-outbreak-only-after-defying-federal-regulators https://theweek.com/speedreads/901405/seattle-lab-uncovered-... https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/anthony-fauci-donald-trump-coronavirus-claims https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/anthony-fauci-donald... https://thehill.com/homenews/house/487014-trump-officials-cut-testimony-short-at-coronavirus-hearing https://thehill.com/homenews/house/487014-trump-officials-cu... Yes, the administration bears a huge amount of responsibility for sandbagging and obstructing the initial response, mis-informing the public, ignoring their own subject experts, etc. Fresh Air did a great long-form report today summarizing the ways the administration has obstructed and worsened the crisis. No transcript yet but it's worth a listen. https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/814881355/white-house-knew-coronavirus-would-be-a-major-threat-but-response-fell-short https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/814881355/white-house-knew-co... (<3 Terry Gross, she's a wonderful interviewer who is fantastic at asking insightful and probing questions while being incredibly kind and gentle. Probably the single most informative show on the air, for whatever topic she covers.)
- kulahan 7y ago
  For what it's worth, the transcript is now live. Direct link: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/814881355 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/814881355
A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
I think you allowed yourself to become overwhelmed with emotions. Both groups, and that is despite news that some of their own are infected, are playing games. It is silly to pretend it is just GOP. edit: spelling
- breakyerself 7y ago
  Republicans are playing games to get bailouts for corporations. Democrats are playing games to get people healthcare and paid sick leave.
- ChuckMcM 7y ago
  I think it is a bit more nuanced than that. My experience in large enterprises are that there are two kinds of "politics" that get played. In one form, the leadership makes moves or take actions that benefit themselves but also help the company. Often that is called out as "leadership." In the other form, the leadership makes moves or take actions that benefit themselves but hurts the company. That form is called "politics." You can see examples all around of this. For example a CEO that buys another company, the result of which is hitting a milestone that triggers a big bonus for them but saddles the company with a bunch of debt and expense that drags down its productivity. That is bad. Versus the same example where the CEO buys another company and the combination results both in them getting a bonus as well as the combined company doing better than the sum of the individual companies. That is good. So I agree with you that both parties are playing games, the differentiator for me is what is the ratio of benefit to the country vs benefit to the party/individual from the game being played? If that ration is 1:1 or greater I see it as a positive thing rather than a negative thing.
  - mamon 7y ago
    >> For example a CEO that buys another company, the result of which is hitting a milestone that triggers a big bonus for them but saddles the company with a bunch of debt and expense that drags down its productivity. That is bad. Versus the same example where the CEO buys another company and the combination results both in them getting a bonus as well as the combined company doing better than the sum of the individual companies. That is good. Mergers are always risky. CEO can do all the analysis possible but can't know for sure if combined company will do better or worse than individual parts. That part of the job is called "taking calculated risks".
malandrew 7y ago
Lamar Alexander was not against providing this support. He blocked it based on how it was going to be paid for. It's very much a partisan issue because the Democrats want companies to foot the bill. The GOP thinks that if Washington DC thinks companies should do something then Washington DC should foot the bill. Neither side disagrees that people should have this support. All the Democrats had to do is introduce the same bill and divert funding from other congressional discretionary spending and the bill would have passed. It could pass today if they made this change. Honestly, Lamar Alexander is right here. Companies are already going to be hurting financially enough as it is. Making them provide something new and foot the bill is just kicking companies while they are down and just going to worsen the fallout in this recession. Forcing them to fund this will contribute to phenomena like Chapter 11 bankruptcy for some companies and for others it will force them to lay off more staff. There's no justification for Congress to increase the costs to companies while the Fed simultaneously injects $1.5T. That's just counterproductive when you're trying to help stabilize the economy. I honestly don't understand why the Democrats are so consistently anti-business in so many things they do. "After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world." (Calvin Coolidge)
- ShroudedNight 7y ago
  As a non-American that's somewhat ignorant of the current states of the US legislative houses on this matter, could someone provide some context as to why the comment directly parent to $self is being maligned?
  - undersuit 7y ago
    I downvoted because I disagree with the way they are arguing. The gp's(grandposter) comment uses the word companies. Which companies? Well we're talking about the US and health care so it has gotta be the health insurance companies? No, the bill Lamar disagreed with was to make employer's provide sick time to their employees. Also, pp(parentposter) is what I use. OP is reserved for poster of the content.
Alex3917 7y ago
> the GOP needs to stop trying to pretend like nothing is wrong and actually DO SOMETHING to prevent this from becoming an even bigger disaster. The DNC and the Democratic media have literally spent the last several months lying about Medicare for All.
roenxi 7y ago
If the system is reliant on the legislative branch to respond to a crisis then there is no doubt that it will fail. Large voting bodies are no good at all in times of crisis.
- trymas 7y ago
  I guess OP meant that this ignorance is systematic and long term. Current pandemic just very clearly shows how ridiculous it is not to provide a social safety net.
zaptheimpaler 7y ago
Slight tangent, but the excessive focus on tests is misguided. The tests give us more data but make little difference unless they are used to rapidly trace outbreaks and quarantine entire areas, which just has not happened. And with something this viral, its only a matter of time before it spreads everywhere. The focus needs to be on slowing the spread and treatment. The treatment is about supporting the body while it fights the virus, and highly dependent on how & where the virus manifests. Some need oxygen therapy, some need antivirals, some even need lung transplants. In cases where the virus affects other organs, totally different treatment applies. The resource constraint there is general medical capacity - doctors, beds, ICUs, oxygen support, and probably a hundred other things.
- spaced-out 7y ago
  >Slight tangent, but the excessive focus on tests is misguided. The issue with our lack of testing is that we have no idea what we're dealing with, which is a big part of why the market's freaking out. If we had been ramping up testing months ago, when it was already a massive disruption in China and should have been clear that it was only a matter of time before it got to the US, then we would have a lot more information now. This is why we need competent administrators running things like the CDC, the DoE, Homeland Security etc..., not political hacks.
  - deckard1 7y ago
    > This is why we need competent administrators running things The GOP has a conflict of interest here. They don't want to give evidence that government can work. Their goal is to break government and then go "see, government doesn't work!" It's a splendid position to take, because anything that comes up you simply shrug and wipe your hands clean. You're not responsible for anything. While we all sit and ponder whether we're all going to die and if the economy will disappear overnight, let's all just remember the travesty that is Puerto Rico. If that's not enough, then kids in concentration camps. Oh? People care now because it impacts their little world? "No time for politics" says the people actively breaking the world.
  - zaptheimpaler 7y ago
divbzero 7y ago
Regardless, now is the time to put aside partisanship and face the problem before us. There will be plenty of time for retrospection, after we get through this together.
mythrwy 7y ago
Yes, the response from GOP leadership has been bad. No argument. However you are making (in my opinion) a very bad assumption that the other party who couldn't put up a healthcare website for millions (billions?) and as far as I know has never effectively done _anything_ would have performed any better. It's certainly not the time for partisan finger pointing and haymaking. That is simply stupid. However you are correct, we do need to look at causes and how we can do better. Maybe in general the incompetence of the federal government at responding to emergencies should be looked at. And perhaps putting too much responsibility in the hands of very old people who's entire careers and have been bullshit lip flapping instead of performance and career game of thrones do-nothing bureaucrats isn't a good idea in time of crisis and we need to be prepared next time.

by tw04 7y ago

altec3 7y ago

I think what gdubs was trying to get across is that sure, there are problems, people to blame, etc. but now is not the time. We have to get our act together and handle the situation. We can't have petty fighting betweeen parties. Now is the time to unite and act. We can fight, argue and point fingers once this is all behind us.

aaomidi 7y ago
They're literally blocking COVID emergency budget bills getting passed in the Senate This is time to fall in line or be thrown out of your job.
- breakyerself 7y ago
  Why don't Republicans need to fall in line when Democrats pass much needed relief for coronavirus?
  - wonderwonder 7y ago
    That's who he is talking about, the republicans are blocking it.
- fragmede 7y ago
  At least one bill is being blocked because it doesn't have language prohibiting the money to be used for abortion. The money would be used to fight Covid-19 pandemic, but for some reason, it's critical that the money in no way go to abortion. https://www.salon.com/2020/03/12/gop-delays-coronavirus-bill-in-part-over-complaints-that-it-doesnt-bar-federal-funds-for-abortion/ https://www.salon.com/2020/03/12/gop-delays-coronavirus-bill...
standardUser 7y ago
Now is the time for leadership. If leadership is lacking, we don't star singing Kumbaya and offering platitudes about "unity" in the face of malpractice, we loudly and firmly demand better leadership.
wonderwonder 7y ago
You are right. Unfortunately we need good strong leadership focused on protecting not just numbers on a candlestick chart but actual real people. Our current president has proven completely incapable of that and should immediately step aside. I am no fan of Pence but he at least likely capable of listening to experts and following their recommendations. The markets reaction to last night Oval office speech is reason enough to prove the nation has lost confidence in its current occupant.
- andrekandre 7y ago
  i don’t usually post on political topics but... i’m not so sure about pence... [0] if we are lucky, hopefully he’s learned from that but i’m not holding my breath [0] https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pences-pray-it-plan-combat-indiana-hiv-outbreak-resurfaces-after-trump-taps-vp-lead-1489344 https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pences-pray-it-plan-combat-ind...
yc-kraln 7y ago
You act like we aren't capable of doing two things at once. Sorry, I am perfectly capable of acting while still pointing my finger at the people who are actively trying to make this worse. Maybe you can afford to play kum-bay-yah but perhaps it's not your life or the lives of your loved ones which have been doomed by this ineptitude. Civility is poison to irrational discourse.
rndmize 7y ago
The fighting between the parties hasn't been petty for years now. It's frequently a disagreement on basic factual information. Solving problems is something that can be done when everyone understands and agrees on what the problem actually is. I don't expect to be able to craft useful public health policy in discussion with an antivaxxer or space exploration policy with a flat earther – the idea of "unite and act" is be absurd when dealing with people who lack the ability to admit they can be wrong/consider multiple perspectives/think critically. And yet that's basically where we stand today politically. > Fact-checkers and scientists have scrambled to correct the misinformation coming out of the White House. (No, the virus has not been “contained” in America; no, testing is not available to anybody who wants it; no, people shouldn’t go to work if they’re sick.) But Trump’s message seems to have resonated with his base: A Quinnipiac University poll released this week found that just 35 percent of Republicans are concerned about the virus, compared with 68 percent of Democrats. [1] If the other side doesn't even agree with you this is a problem that needs serious attention to be solved, how are we going to get our act together? [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/trump-coronavirus-threat/607825/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/trump-c...
dragonwriter 7y ago
> I think what gdubs was trying to get across is that sure, there are problems, people to blame, etc. but now is not the time. Now is absolutely the time, because: > We have to get our act together and handle the situation. And identifying the problems in the approach to date is an essential element of course correction. > Now is the time to unite and act. No, now is the time to identify the problems in our actions to date and course correct to appropriate actions. “Unite and act” is pointless or counterproductive without that.

tic_tac 7y ago

You can't just conjure the necessary tests up from nothing. Japan has also had problems with testing. No one is trying to "deny testing". It is a work in progress and is indeed ramping up.

whatshisface 7y ago
The FDA had a ban on tests outside of the CDC's tiny supply for a long time. That's whats being referred to by "denying testing." Not a political issue so much as a typical bureaucratic slowdown with very real consequences.
- tic_tac 7y ago
  The comment I replied to was saying that the lack of testing was indeed a political issue with one side at fault.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    It is insofar as the FDA and CDC are controlled by the president and both agencies could make emergency exceptions. On a phone call the day after the C.D.C. and F.D.A. had told Dr. Chu to stop, officials relented, but only partially, the researchers recalled. They would allow the study’s laboratories to test cases and report the results only in future samples. They would need to use a new consent form that explicitly mentioned that results of the coronavirus tests might be shared with the local health department. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-de...
- m0zg 7y ago
  Could be a political issue as well. The deep state within CDC and FDA is likely sabotaging the first response. I see no other explanation for why, 2 months after things started blowing up in China, we _still_ don't have widespread testing in what I thought was the most technologically advanced country in the world, and moreover, are _refusing to import the working solution_. Heads should most definitely roll for this after things subside.

allovernow 7y ago

>Ahh, the old cowardly downvote without comment because you don't like the reality of the situation that there is one party that's very much to blame People are probably downvoting silently this time because explaining to you that you're obliviously consuming propaganda is one step deeper into flamewar territory which is unpopular on HN (and against the rules). Case in point? Media reports that bill forcing employers to provide sick leave failed to pass because of evil Republicans. What you won't see on the news is the nuance that such a bill can't be passed without possibly bankrupting small businesses. That's just one example. The administration shut down the border early on and was enthusiastically rewarded with accusations of sinophobia. All politicians play this game. The US government institution has been rotting for decades, and yes, it really is a "both sides" issue when one side is so blinded by hatred that they refuse to acknowledge positive decisions. There are literally almost as many people on the Republican side blindly dismissing everything Democrats do. Remember, Trump only lost the popular vote by 3%. Now is not the time for partisan idiocy.

tw04 7y ago
>Case in point? Media reports that bill forcing employers to provide sick leave failed to pass because of evil Republicans. What you won't see on the news is the nuance that such a bill can't be passed without possibly bankrupting small businesses. The bill literally includes the funding to pay for sick leave. That's why it's a FUNDING bill - I think you're confused about who is being mislead by propaganda. Meanwhile, the GOP is trying to insert language about abortion into the bill because...?
- malandrew 7y ago
  The full text has not yet been published on congress.gov to verify who is paying and I can't find the full text elsewhere. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3415/all-info?r=3&s=5 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/341... https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6150?s=3&r=64 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6150... However, the press release from Murray and DeLauro makes it sound like businesses are paying: https://www.help.senate.gov/ranking/newsroom/press/coronavirus-murray-delauro-introduce-new-emergency-paid-sick-days-legislation https://www.help.senate.gov/ranking/newsroom/press/coronavir... If you have a primary source that shows that government, not businesses, are paying for the costs of sick leave as it relates to S.3415 and HR.6150, please share it. I also can't find a single search result that includes the term abortion as it relates to either S.3415 or HR.6150.

ThomPete 7y ago

If you actually listen to the hearing today you will realize that this is a systemic issue with the US healthcare system not something any politician can do much about. The US is not built that way the CDC can't just fix it. That's the power and weakness of our system compared to other countries. Here the leaders of CDC explains the problem in a nutshell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxC9Q99il1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxC9Q99il1Q

paulmd 7y ago

Also: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486559-trump-fake-news-media-democrats-working-to-inflame-the-coronavirus https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486559-trump-fak... https://theweek.com/speedreads/901405/seattle-lab-uncovered-washingtons-coronavirus-outbreak-only-after-defying-federal-regulators https://theweek.com/speedreads/901405/seattle-lab-uncovered-... https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/anthony-fauci-donald-trump-coronavirus-claims https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/anthony-fauci-donald... https://thehill.com/homenews/house/487014-trump-officials-cut-testimony-short-at-coronavirus-hearing https://thehill.com/homenews/house/487014-trump-officials-cu... Yes, the administration bears a huge amount of responsibility for sandbagging and obstructing the initial response, mis-informing the public, ignoring their own subject experts, etc. Fresh Air did a great long-form report today summarizing the ways the administration has obstructed and worsened the crisis. No transcript yet but it's worth a listen. https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/814881355/white-house-knew-coronavirus-would-be-a-major-threat-but-response-fell-short https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/814881355/white-house-knew-co... (<3 Terry Gross, she's a wonderful interviewer who is fantastic at asking insightful and probing questions while being incredibly kind and gentle. Probably the single most informative show on the air, for whatever topic she covers.)

kulahan 7y ago
For what it's worth, the transcript is now live. Direct link: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/814881355 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/814881355

A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago

I think you allowed yourself to become overwhelmed with emotions. Both groups, and that is despite news that some of their own are infected, are playing games. It is silly to pretend it is just GOP. edit: spelling

breakyerself 7y ago
Republicans are playing games to get bailouts for corporations. Democrats are playing games to get people healthcare and paid sick leave.
ChuckMcM 7y ago
I think it is a bit more nuanced than that. My experience in large enterprises are that there are two kinds of "politics" that get played. In one form, the leadership makes moves or take actions that benefit themselves but also help the company. Often that is called out as "leadership." In the other form, the leadership makes moves or take actions that benefit themselves but hurts the company. That form is called "politics." You can see examples all around of this. For example a CEO that buys another company, the result of which is hitting a milestone that triggers a big bonus for them but saddles the company with a bunch of debt and expense that drags down its productivity. That is bad. Versus the same example where the CEO buys another company and the combination results both in them getting a bonus as well as the combined company doing better than the sum of the individual companies. That is good. So I agree with you that both parties are playing games, the differentiator for me is what is the ratio of benefit to the country vs benefit to the party/individual from the game being played? If that ration is 1:1 or greater I see it as a positive thing rather than a negative thing.
- mamon 7y ago
  >> For example a CEO that buys another company, the result of which is hitting a milestone that triggers a big bonus for them but saddles the company with a bunch of debt and expense that drags down its productivity. That is bad. Versus the same example where the CEO buys another company and the combination results both in them getting a bonus as well as the combined company doing better than the sum of the individual companies. That is good. Mergers are always risky. CEO can do all the analysis possible but can't know for sure if combined company will do better or worse than individual parts. That part of the job is called "taking calculated risks".

malandrew 7y ago

Lamar Alexander was not against providing this support. He blocked it based on how it was going to be paid for. It's very much a partisan issue because the Democrats want companies to foot the bill. The GOP thinks that if Washington DC thinks companies should do something then Washington DC should foot the bill. Neither side disagrees that people should have this support. All the Democrats had to do is introduce the same bill and divert funding from other congressional discretionary spending and the bill would have passed. It could pass today if they made this change. Honestly, Lamar Alexander is right here. Companies are already going to be hurting financially enough as it is. Making them provide something new and foot the bill is just kicking companies while they are down and just going to worsen the fallout in this recession. Forcing them to fund this will contribute to phenomena like Chapter 11 bankruptcy for some companies and for others it will force them to lay off more staff. There's no justification for Congress to increase the costs to companies while the Fed simultaneously injects $1.5T. That's just counterproductive when you're trying to help stabilize the economy. I honestly don't understand why the Democrats are so consistently anti-business in so many things they do. "After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world." (Calvin Coolidge)

ShroudedNight 7y ago
As a non-American that's somewhat ignorant of the current states of the US legislative houses on this matter, could someone provide some context as to why the comment directly parent to $self is being maligned?
- undersuit 7y ago
  I downvoted because I disagree with the way they are arguing. The gp's(grandposter) comment uses the word companies. Which companies? Well we're talking about the US and health care so it has gotta be the health insurance companies? No, the bill Lamar disagreed with was to make employer's provide sick time to their employees. Also, pp(parentposter) is what I use. OP is reserved for poster of the content.

Alex3917 7y ago

> the GOP needs to stop trying to pretend like nothing is wrong and actually DO SOMETHING to prevent this from becoming an even bigger disaster. The DNC and the Democratic media have literally spent the last several months lying about Medicare for All.

roenxi 7y ago

If the system is reliant on the legislative branch to respond to a crisis then there is no doubt that it will fail. Large voting bodies are no good at all in times of crisis.

trymas 7y ago
I guess OP meant that this ignorance is systematic and long term. Current pandemic just very clearly shows how ridiculous it is not to provide a social safety net.

zaptheimpaler 7y ago

Slight tangent, but the excessive focus on tests is misguided. The tests give us more data but make little difference unless they are used to rapidly trace outbreaks and quarantine entire areas, which just has not happened. And with something this viral, its only a matter of time before it spreads everywhere. The focus needs to be on slowing the spread and treatment. The treatment is about supporting the body while it fights the virus, and highly dependent on how & where the virus manifests. Some need oxygen therapy, some need antivirals, some even need lung transplants. In cases where the virus affects other organs, totally different treatment applies. The resource constraint there is general medical capacity - doctors, beds, ICUs, oxygen support, and probably a hundred other things.

spaced-out 7y ago
>Slight tangent, but the excessive focus on tests is misguided. The issue with our lack of testing is that we have no idea what we're dealing with, which is a big part of why the market's freaking out. If we had been ramping up testing months ago, when it was already a massive disruption in China and should have been clear that it was only a matter of time before it got to the US, then we would have a lot more information now. This is why we need competent administrators running things like the CDC, the DoE, Homeland Security etc..., not political hacks.
- deckard1 7y ago
  > This is why we need competent administrators running things The GOP has a conflict of interest here. They don't want to give evidence that government can work. Their goal is to break government and then go "see, government doesn't work!" It's a splendid position to take, because anything that comes up you simply shrug and wipe your hands clean. You're not responsible for anything. While we all sit and ponder whether we're all going to die and if the economy will disappear overnight, let's all just remember the travesty that is Puerto Rico. If that's not enough, then kids in concentration camps. Oh? People care now because it impacts their little world? "No time for politics" says the people actively breaking the world.
- zaptheimpaler 7y ago

divbzero 7y ago

Regardless, now is the time to put aside partisanship and face the problem before us. There will be plenty of time for retrospection, after we get through this together.

mythrwy 7y ago

Yes, the response from GOP leadership has been bad. No argument. However you are making (in my opinion) a very bad assumption that the other party who couldn't put up a healthcare website for millions (billions?) and as far as I know has never effectively done _anything_ would have performed any better. It's certainly not the time for partisan finger pointing and haymaking. That is simply stupid. However you are correct, we do need to look at causes and how we can do better. Maybe in general the incompetence of the federal government at responding to emergencies should be looked at. And perhaps putting too much responsibility in the hands of very old people who's entire careers and have been bullshit lip flapping instead of performance and career game of thrones do-nothing bureaucrats isn't a good idea in time of crisis and we need to be prepared next time.