3 ms·

Electric fixed wings conceivably are a lot cheaper to maintain than a helicopter, but a lot of the infrastructure costs etc. seem like they'll be similar. You

by ska 7y ago

Electric fixed wings conceivably are a lot cheaper to maintain than a helicopter, but a lot of the infrastructure costs etc. seem like they'll be similar. You already have helicopter operating out of small pad locations with out security and line ups, etc. All of that has too look pretty similar. I can see how you might change a $200 15-20 min helicopter ride into a $120 15-20 min VTOL ride profitably, but hard to see how it becomes a $60 ride any time soon...

outworlder 7y ago
> with out security and line ups You have that on general aviation too, today. > I can see how you might change a $200 15-20 min helicopter ride into a $120 15-20 min VTOL ride profitably, but hard to see how it becomes a $60 ride any time soon... Last I looked, range was an enormous problem. Let's see. 20 min VTOL ride. 30 minutes reserve "fuel" or 1 hour if IFR. +more "fuel" to reach the alternate airport (if fixed wing) or the nearest landing site. These are recommendations for GA, if you are doing this commercially the requirements may be different (tend to be stricter) You can get away with a lot if you only fly in clear blue skies in locations with very stable weather. You still need to have plenty of range for unforeseen events. You don't burn off batteries when flying either, so empty or full batteries weight the same. These things won't get cheap in the short term. Non-helicopter efficient VTOL is pretty hard to do, that doesn't help costs either. Companies would do well in trying to solve one problem first (flying 'vtol' taxis) before trying to solve the other problem (electric airplanes).
- ska 7y ago
  I think we are saying basically the same thing - this works only on short runs and the fixed costs are similar. So where are the putative gains? 2x I can see, maybe. But it's a big maybe. 10x seem to be fantasy land. So that means no disruption.
marcosdumay 7y ago
> a lot of the infrastructure costs etc. seem like they'll be similar Helicopter infrastructure is so cheap that there are many places with a pad that is just used for emergencies.
- ska 7y ago
  sure; it's a little bit heavier if you have customers but still - where is the savings for an electric VTOL?
  - marcosdumay 7y ago
    That is the one cost that is the same, every other one is different. And it's so cheap that people build the thing just in case firefighters need it. So, the question is the other way around: why do you think there can't be savings?
    - ska 7y ago
      I said I think there obviously can be savings though , just not obvious how it can be of the magnitude to really shift transportation. That’s not at all the same thing as no savings. You save on operation and maintenance costs, but not on infrastructure or staffing. Do you think this is incorrect ?

by ska 7y ago

outworlder 7y ago

> with out security and line ups You have that on general aviation too, today. > I can see how you might change a $200 15-20 min helicopter ride into a $120 15-20 min VTOL ride profitably, but hard to see how it becomes a $60 ride any time soon... Last I looked, range was an enormous problem. Let's see. 20 min VTOL ride. 30 minutes reserve "fuel" or 1 hour if IFR. +more "fuel" to reach the alternate airport (if fixed wing) or the nearest landing site. These are recommendations for GA, if you are doing this commercially the requirements may be different (tend to be stricter) You can get away with a lot if you only fly in clear blue skies in locations with very stable weather. You still need to have plenty of range for unforeseen events. You don't burn off batteries when flying either, so empty or full batteries weight the same. These things won't get cheap in the short term. Non-helicopter efficient VTOL is pretty hard to do, that doesn't help costs either. Companies would do well in trying to solve one problem first (flying 'vtol' taxis) before trying to solve the other problem (electric airplanes).

ska 7y ago
I think we are saying basically the same thing - this works only on short runs and the fixed costs are similar. So where are the putative gains? 2x I can see, maybe. But it's a big maybe. 10x seem to be fantasy land. So that means no disruption.

marcosdumay 7y ago

> a lot of the infrastructure costs etc. seem like they'll be similar Helicopter infrastructure is so cheap that there are many places with a pad that is just used for emergencies.

ska 7y ago
sure; it's a little bit heavier if you have customers but still - where is the savings for an electric VTOL?
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  That is the one cost that is the same, every other one is different. And it's so cheap that people build the thing just in case firefighters need it. So, the question is the other way around: why do you think there can't be savings?
  - ska 7y ago
    I said I think there obviously can be savings though , just not obvious how it can be of the magnitude to really shift transportation. That’s not at all the same thing as no savings. You save on operation and maintenance costs, but not on infrastructure or staffing. Do you think this is incorrect ?