3 ms·

Ubuntu is a server OS. It only has a limited set of old software. To get new software, you have to mess with weird (possible expired) PPAs sourced from StackOv

Ubuntu is a server OS. It only has a limited set of old software. To get new software, you have to mess with weird (possible expired) PPAs sourced from StackOverflow posts. Eventually, you have to reinstall the OS to get new software packages or DE features. This is fine for servers which need super-stable, tested packages. But does that sound like a typical end-user OS, like Windows? No. That's why a better candidate are nerfed rolling releases like Manjaro. c: New stuff all the time, indefinitely. Nerfed rolling, so less bleeding edge breakage risk. No reinstalls. No PPAs; the AUR has everything. Great forum to boot. Also Arch Wiki compatible.

nickserv 7y ago
This is why I like KDE neon: solid Ubuntu LTS base (still a bit newer than Debian usually) with the latest KDE apps on top. There's not too many open source apps that aren't covered by KDE, with the exception of GIMP. Then I just install proprietary stuff as needed (Skype, InteliJ, etc).
- shrimp_emoji 7y ago
  Yep. Bafflingly, you'd think an older version of the DE would be more stable and bug-free than newer versions, but this wasn't my anecdotal experience: on Kubuntu, I had to reset KDE all the time. And Baloo segfaulted all the time. Two years on Manjaro, and I've never either problem once. Have you had the same experience on Neon? You still have the problem of being stuck with an LTS package list (and dealing with PPAs) though. Also, out of scope of this convo, but this is about what is >a standard ... desktop for general users but what a modern desktop should look like for general users is a subjective or moving target. If it's something like Windows 10X[0] (sandbox containerize all the things), which I think it should be, then no Linux distro currently suffices at all. :D 0: https://www.howtogeek.com/442767/what-is-windows-10x-and-how-is-it-different/ https://www.howtogeek.com/442767/what-is-windows-10x-and-how...
  - wwright 7y ago
    Project Silverblue (Fedora + Project Atomic) is trying to move in that direction, I believe.
viraptor 7y ago
It's this really something "general users" want? Outside of tech enthusiasts, people have allergic reaction to upgrades. Not changing software is great for them. They're already clicking "update later" / "try tomorrow" on windows/macos. Even developers in established companies are worried about upgrades. There's lots of documentation to update, standard processes and scripts may stop working. (How many docs and scripts have been invalidated recently by awscli 2.0 dropping "ecr get-login"? That's likely weeks of global productivity lost.) Even if I'm in a tech enthusiast group, I moved away from rolling distros to fedora - still getting fairly fresh things, but don't have to deal with lots of unnecessary updates installing every day. On work laptop I'm a major update of the system behind and every time I actually go for it, it means a few hours to a day of making the environment work again.
jcastro 7y ago
> To get new software, you have to mess with weird (possible expired) PPAs sourced from StackOverflow posts. Somehow I magically am typing this on an LTS system with the latest usptream versions of Firefox, slack, discord, blender, vscode, libreoffice, OBS, spotify, golang, and node, all without PPAs or stackoverflow. I get it you use Arch, but you should perhaps educate yourself on how other distros work before throwing shade?
- viraptor 7y ago
  Between snap, flatpak, and appimage, a lot of those issues really go away. Regardless of distribution or version.
yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
> Ubuntu is a server OS. ...and a desktop OS, and a mobile OS. I don't see where it's optimized for one over the other. > No PPAs; the AUR has everything. I'm not fond of PPAs, but are they really that much worse than the AUR, which works by manually compiling software using unvetted scripts from strangers?

nickserv 7y ago

This is why I like KDE neon: solid Ubuntu LTS base (still a bit newer than Debian usually) with the latest KDE apps on top. There's not too many open source apps that aren't covered by KDE, with the exception of GIMP. Then I just install proprietary stuff as needed (Skype, InteliJ, etc).

shrimp_emoji 7y ago
Yep. Bafflingly, you'd think an older version of the DE would be more stable and bug-free than newer versions, but this wasn't my anecdotal experience: on Kubuntu, I had to reset KDE all the time. And Baloo segfaulted all the time. Two years on Manjaro, and I've never either problem once. Have you had the same experience on Neon? You still have the problem of being stuck with an LTS package list (and dealing with PPAs) though. Also, out of scope of this convo, but this is about what is >a standard ... desktop for general users but what a modern desktop should look like for general users is a subjective or moving target. If it's something like Windows 10X[0] (sandbox containerize all the things), which I think it should be, then no Linux distro currently suffices at all. :D 0: https://www.howtogeek.com/442767/what-is-windows-10x-and-how-is-it-different/ https://www.howtogeek.com/442767/what-is-windows-10x-and-how...
- wwright 7y ago
  Project Silverblue (Fedora + Project Atomic) is trying to move in that direction, I believe.

viraptor 7y ago

It's this really something "general users" want? Outside of tech enthusiasts, people have allergic reaction to upgrades. Not changing software is great for them. They're already clicking "update later" / "try tomorrow" on windows/macos. Even developers in established companies are worried about upgrades. There's lots of documentation to update, standard processes and scripts may stop working. (How many docs and scripts have been invalidated recently by awscli 2.0 dropping "ecr get-login"? That's likely weeks of global productivity lost.) Even if I'm in a tech enthusiast group, I moved away from rolling distros to fedora - still getting fairly fresh things, but don't have to deal with lots of unnecessary updates installing every day. On work laptop I'm a major update of the system behind and every time I actually go for it, it means a few hours to a day of making the environment work again.

jcastro 7y ago

> To get new software, you have to mess with weird (possible expired) PPAs sourced from StackOverflow posts. Somehow I magically am typing this on an LTS system with the latest usptream versions of Firefox, slack, discord, blender, vscode, libreoffice, OBS, spotify, golang, and node, all without PPAs or stackoverflow. I get it you use Arch, but you should perhaps educate yourself on how other distros work before throwing shade?

viraptor 7y ago
Between snap, flatpak, and appimage, a lot of those issues really go away. Regardless of distribution or version.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago

> Ubuntu is a server OS. ...and a desktop OS, and a mobile OS. I don't see where it's optimized for one over the other. > No PPAs; the AUR has everything. I'm not fond of PPAs, but are they really that much worse than the AUR, which works by manually compiling software using unvetted scripts from strangers?